F10 M5 issues since 5/2012 no one can fix
Discussion
I have had an F10 M5 since May 2012 and shortly after delivery I have had constant issues with the car suffering drive train issues. The car will appear to switch off half the engine at random intervals. The worst being approximately 30 times on a trip back from Lincoln to Essex. It has been to the dealers many times with different fixes tried on instruction from BMW but nothing has fixed the issue.
How many chances do I give them fix the issue?
How many chances do I give them fix the issue?
I don't want to give much away but earlier in the history of the issue I was told that BMW were considering replacing the car. Yesterday I called BMW customer service (following the dealer specifically asking me to). BMW returned the call this morning and refused to discuss the issue with me. The car is leased via a business.
No matter what happens I am not going to break the contract to prove a point. Thanks for the input guys.
I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
As an update.
BMW have still not responded to me directly in anyway, that is following both the leasing company and dealer specifically asking me to contact BMW, and despite my emails being cc'd in to multiple senior BMW persons.
All parties still refuse to answer the question regarding what steps will be taken should the latest attempt to fix fail.
The parts will not be available until at least June 26th.
I have asked my solicitors to take over.
I will never purchase a BMW again after this.
BMW have still not responded to me directly in anyway, that is following both the leasing company and dealer specifically asking me to contact BMW, and despite my emails being cc'd in to multiple senior BMW persons.
All parties still refuse to answer the question regarding what steps will be taken should the latest attempt to fix fail.
The parts will not be available until at least June 26th.
I have asked my solicitors to take over.
I will never purchase a BMW again after this.
Wills2 said:
They should offer to replace the engine at least, thing is all this leaves a bitter taste in your mouth whereby the car becomes a source of anger and resentment not what you expect of a 80k+ car.
The issue sounds strange, does it just lose power to 4 of the cylinders?
Usually when driving a sudden loss of power and Drive Train error occurs. The symptom has been explained to me as half the engines cylinders switching off to "protect the engine", the error appears to occur in both sets of cylinders. The sudden loss of power usually results in sudden deceleration without warning and passengers being thrown around. Issue has also been occurring (assuming its the same cause), of misfires which don't leave to drive train warning but excessive movement of passengers and me.The issue sounds strange, does it just lose power to 4 of the cylinders?
A few weeks ago it was happening every few miles on a trip down from up north back south.
David 997t said:
Rich I have had the same with mine, it came up with a "drive train fault" on the computer this got reset three times and fourth occasion I took it in and said keep it till it is sorted!!!
They traced the problem to the vanos and replaced it all, it has been fine up to yesterday (which has been around 10 months) when the fault has come up again with limp home mode cutting in. It has now cleared but i have informed dealer who are ready for it to come in again for maybe ANOTHER vanos unit.
Hope this helps.
Odd that I have been told my car is the only one with the issue.They traced the problem to the vanos and replaced it all, it has been fine up to yesterday (which has been around 10 months) when the fault has come up again with limp home mode cutting in. It has now cleared but i have informed dealer who are ready for it to come in again for maybe ANOTHER vanos unit.
Hope this helps.
Edited by David 997t on Wednesday 3rd July 14:35
Just to add, BMW Corporate customer service should be ashamed of themselves they are still not talking to me. I have had a patronizing email from the Corporate Customer services Manager in the UK after yet another unmet deadline for repair of the car.
Edited by rich1231 on Tuesday 9th July 16:06
To take a formal complaint forwards with the BVRLA I need to get a formal "Final Word" from the leasing company who are refusing to do so as the car is still at the Dealer waiting for parts. It has been there for nearly 6 weeks I have only had updates when I have chased. No one has updated me on the delivery of the parts at all despite the dates indicated passing. I have already told the leasing company that the payments will still be made but are in dispute, funny enough no one replied to that.
I held back with Solicitors taking it further but I have a meeting with them later on another matter so will get the ball rolling then.
I am updating this thread to shame those involved as I have sent them links. I am telling everyone about how poor the car has been, and how useless BMW and specific members of staff have been and will never purchase another BMW no matter what.
I held back with Solicitors taking it further but I have a meeting with them later on another matter so will get the ball rolling then.
I am updating this thread to shame those involved as I have sent them links. I am telling everyone about how poor the car has been, and how useless BMW and specific members of staff have been and will never purchase another BMW no matter what.
Funny thing is that when asked to provide the service incident history to my Solicitors the dealer has omitted some visits and omits the length of visit when the car has been unavailable for more than a day. Also omits the many calls and emails exchanged over a lengthy period.
I rejected the car in an email in July 2012 which leasing company refused to discuss. I drove the car from that point as I was really busy and I became used to the issue.
Dealer claimed that they had never seen a car with issue before and said BMW themselves claimed it was not an issue seen before. Funny how googling F10 M5 drivetrain issue comes up with lots of result many of which predate mine.
I rejected the car in an email in July 2012 which leasing company refused to discuss. I drove the car from that point as I was really busy and I became used to the issue.
Dealer claimed that they had never seen a car with issue before and said BMW themselves claimed it was not an issue seen before. Funny how googling F10 M5 drivetrain issue comes up with lots of result many of which predate mine.
Edited by rich1231 on Friday 12th July 21:33
JCHill said:
Software????
Maybe this has already been asked but has the dealership downloaded the latest software for the car?
Mine had a 'cough' last December and the diagnostics reported 2 cylinders shutdown (drivetrain error).
The recovery mechanic said that this was highly unlikely and reset everything.
When the car went in for service I mentioned this 'incident' and they loaded the latest update of the software saying there were reported engine issues that the update fixes...I was VERY sceptical but I've not had a repeat of the problem (5000+ miles since the service).
Hope you get it sorted!!!
They have carried out software updates, injectors replaced, something done on exhaust manifold. Currently been waiting nearly 2 months for some fuel system parts which have failed to turn up after multiple promises. Oh and no one ever tells me they haven't turned up I am only told anything at all when I chase despite all promised deadlines passing. Saying that, I have chased for updates this week and not had a response. Left messages with BMW corporate customer services and they have not responded to my phone messages - ever. Not had a response from the dealer for some time. Most recent was copy of works for solicitor - but that was edited and incomplete.Maybe this has already been asked but has the dealership downloaded the latest software for the car?
Mine had a 'cough' last December and the diagnostics reported 2 cylinders shutdown (drivetrain error).
The recovery mechanic said that this was highly unlikely and reset everything.
When the car went in for service I mentioned this 'incident' and they loaded the latest update of the software saying there were reported engine issues that the update fixes...I was VERY sceptical but I've not had a repeat of the problem (5000+ miles since the service).
Hope you get it sorted!!!
Complaint now in with BVRLA, and I have also sent a letter before action to the leasing company and my solicitors are just waiting for the 14 days to pass. The car has now been rejected.
Day 54
Had a chat with leasing company MD at end of last week, they are still wriggling.
xxxxxx/ yyyyyy,
I wanted to make a point following some discussions with yyyyy this week and help you focus.
Rather than attempt yet again to pass blame to each other and me in this issue or avoid responsibility for supplying me a "Lemon" as it is clear the car is. Why have energies for the last year not been spent sorting the issue out? If as much energy had been expended on the issue rather than avoiding it, it would have taken hours. I will never understand why for a Halo car why everyone has only focused on the "I have had it a year, and driven 16000 odd miles" issue.
To make it clear. I had issues since just after delivery. All parties were informed. No one made any real effort to resolve. I asked in writing for the car to be rejected last July over a year ago. - xxxxxxx the email was to YYY. That email was ignored. I believe I did receive a dismissive call to say I couldn't reject from zzzzzzzzz at YYY at the time which was useful. I experienced faults continuously through the next few months and I became accustomed to them. I told a large number of people how poor the car was and many passengers had experienced the faults.
I have no access to another vehicle and had absolutely no faith in the issue getting resolved by YYY, DEALER or BMW and so gave up on getting the issue resolved. Though I still stand by the assertion that the car had been rejected in July. I assume YYY have not mentioned this rejection to BMW?
A recent trip nearly killed me and 2 passengers and they convinced me that I had to take action.
I am still frustrated, I still think that I have been far more reasonable than any other person might think was normal and rather than attempt to fix all I have had is wriggling and attempts to put some liability on me when I have desperately been seeking resolution. I, on principle will not accept this. As I said before, I will never drive or own another BMW once this is dealt with and if this continues to court I will publicize the facts as much as is possible.
Also xxxxxx despite my repeated requests, the dealer has not responded to my further request to provide full information about the car to my solicitors. Instead I have an edited version that omits key information for the visits longer than one day. Can you explain why they wont give my solicitors this information, I intend to include the ignored requests in the claim. from here it looks like something is being hidden.
Oh by the way, 54 days as of today since I last saw the car.
Thanks for that and the continued amazing service. You must work very hard to maintain such a level of disdain for your customers
Had a chat with leasing company MD at end of last week, they are still wriggling.
xxxxxx/ yyyyyy,
I wanted to make a point following some discussions with yyyyy this week and help you focus.
Rather than attempt yet again to pass blame to each other and me in this issue or avoid responsibility for supplying me a "Lemon" as it is clear the car is. Why have energies for the last year not been spent sorting the issue out? If as much energy had been expended on the issue rather than avoiding it, it would have taken hours. I will never understand why for a Halo car why everyone has only focused on the "I have had it a year, and driven 16000 odd miles" issue.
To make it clear. I had issues since just after delivery. All parties were informed. No one made any real effort to resolve. I asked in writing for the car to be rejected last July over a year ago. - xxxxxxx the email was to YYY. That email was ignored. I believe I did receive a dismissive call to say I couldn't reject from zzzzzzzzz at YYY at the time which was useful. I experienced faults continuously through the next few months and I became accustomed to them. I told a large number of people how poor the car was and many passengers had experienced the faults.
I have no access to another vehicle and had absolutely no faith in the issue getting resolved by YYY, DEALER or BMW and so gave up on getting the issue resolved. Though I still stand by the assertion that the car had been rejected in July. I assume YYY have not mentioned this rejection to BMW?
A recent trip nearly killed me and 2 passengers and they convinced me that I had to take action.
I am still frustrated, I still think that I have been far more reasonable than any other person might think was normal and rather than attempt to fix all I have had is wriggling and attempts to put some liability on me when I have desperately been seeking resolution. I, on principle will not accept this. As I said before, I will never drive or own another BMW once this is dealt with and if this continues to court I will publicize the facts as much as is possible.
Also xxxxxx despite my repeated requests, the dealer has not responded to my further request to provide full information about the car to my solicitors. Instead I have an edited version that omits key information for the visits longer than one day. Can you explain why they wont give my solicitors this information, I intend to include the ignored requests in the claim. from here it looks like something is being hidden.
Oh by the way, 54 days as of today since I last saw the car.
Thanks for that and the continued amazing service. You must work very hard to maintain such a level of disdain for your customers
skeeterm5 said:
Shocking really.
I don't quite understand why you are still talking to BMW and haven't simply issued legal proceedings? What am I missing?
S
Waiting for bvrla complaint outcome. I don't quite understand why you are still talking to BMW and haven't simply issued legal proceedings? What am I missing?
S
Hoping for reasonableness to ensue. Proving my reasonableness so that when action begins i can clearly demonstrate i have attempted every possible resolution.
BVRLA cant act it seems now as BMW have offered to terminate the lease. Which is not what their terms say. I don't have a contract with BMW.
The Dealer have told me, after asking 4 times without response that the parts still have not arrived. They expressed confusion why I asked considering I threatened legal action. Erm I threatened legal action because no one was responding or acting in any way reasonably but me.
It's Day 65 I think.
The Dealer have told me, after asking 4 times without response that the parts still have not arrived. They expressed confusion why I asked considering I threatened legal action. Erm I threatened legal action because no one was responding or acting in any way reasonably but me.
It's Day 65 I think.
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