F80 M3 12,000 miles findings
Discussion
I have just passed 12,000 miles in my new M3. I am shocked at the opinions I read in some of the motoring press and on this forum about the car, so I thought I would share my findings as an owner.
I have owned and driven extensively all models of the M3, all have been used as my daily driver, (I drive around 20k miles a year). I also have owned E60 M5, and an M Coupe again using them as daily drivers, so I feel quite capable of making a judgment about how the new car compares to M cars of the past.
The F80 M3 is by far the best M car I have ever driven for what I perceive to be its role as a car in my life. I have never seen M3's as weekend special occasion cars, they are after all based on 3 series BMW's that are very common and functional. If you want a car to set your pants on fire the M3 has never in any of its iterations been that car. I love driving and need a car to use for everything – everyday, sometimes with passengers or family and other times alone on empty roads or on a track when my track car is unavailable. All pervious M3's have catered for this, some better than others. The E30 M3 was slow and had poor brakes and was a bit small. The E36 was brilliant on the road, but still had poor brakes for track work. E46 was my favourite but still had poor brakes for track work. E90 had a crap driving position (Too high), crap brakes and used so much fuel it was slower than a transit van on any 300 mile plus journey, to me it was the worst of the M3's and I went back to an E46 and then an E60 M5. The E60 M5 was great, just too big for the South Wests roads to really have fun and was nearly as slow as the E90 M3 over long trips due to is small fuel tank and consumption.
The F80 M3 rectifies all the previous problems to my mind. I can carry 4 people in comfort. I have driven over 400 miles on a tank of fuel at speed making it faster than my staff in a transit and therefore saving me the ribbing when they arrive back at the office before me! It handles better than the E46 which was the high point for me before. The brakes lasted all day on track at Silverstone with no ill effect (I have the standard steel items), and on a spirited drive it has a level of performance on a whole new level compared with any of the previous cars. It is by far the most complete package.
Noise. It’s no V10. It does however to me, make an inspiring noise that you can hear inside the car and it makes a lot of interesting turbo sounds particularly in sport plus mode with the windows down. Cold start sounds grim, but not quite as bad as the E60 M5 which was awful to the point of a passenger once asking if it was broken.
Traction. This M3 has serious torque from low revs. Most of the road tests and comments on this forum are based around drives in the winter and low temperatures and damp roads. It will break traction at any legal road speeds in the first 4 gears in the cold and damp. If this scares you leave the traction control on then nothing will happen. If you feel the traction control is interrupting too much then either smooth out your throttle inputs or use the M dynamic mode which will still save you from crashing but allow momentary losses of traction that you can then balance your inputs against. Turn the TC off and in the cold and damp and it requires either a sensible cautious approach or a lot of skill, if you like going sideways this is the best M car I have driven for that. I bought my car in July last year so had plenty of dry warm driving. The car is very different in the warm and dry the Michelin tires will take all the torque unless you deliberately try and break traction. As the rear tires wore out traction did become very scarce. By this I mean more caution was required, not that the car became dangerous as after all it only does what your right foot tells it.
Stones. They seems to get stuck between the rear brake disk guards and the disk making a horrible noise on a regular basis. I have read on forums that people think the brakes have broken, it does sound bad but it goes away after a few miles at worst. Other complain about tire noise. The solid rear suspension mounting does make the car louder than a normal 3 series as do the 275 rear tires. It is still very quiet at 70 –80 mph.
At Silverstone I got the chance to use a few little mentioned features of the car. The Track Lap App which maps your progress around the lap and stores steering angle, revs, brakes, throttle, speed, g force and other perimeters all of which is fun to look back on. The GoPro integration is great, allowing you to display the output of the GoPro on the screen to make sure you like the angle and then control the camera from the steering wheel controls to avoid filming the dull warm up and cool down laps. Pit speed limiter, which I admit sounds like a simple gimmick but is quite handy for 50 mph road works as well!
Overall I can see how the negativity some express about the car has come about, but I personally do not agree with any of it. I would happily recommend anybody to buy one providing they have a similar requirement from the car.
I have owned and driven extensively all models of the M3, all have been used as my daily driver, (I drive around 20k miles a year). I also have owned E60 M5, and an M Coupe again using them as daily drivers, so I feel quite capable of making a judgment about how the new car compares to M cars of the past.
The F80 M3 is by far the best M car I have ever driven for what I perceive to be its role as a car in my life. I have never seen M3's as weekend special occasion cars, they are after all based on 3 series BMW's that are very common and functional. If you want a car to set your pants on fire the M3 has never in any of its iterations been that car. I love driving and need a car to use for everything – everyday, sometimes with passengers or family and other times alone on empty roads or on a track when my track car is unavailable. All pervious M3's have catered for this, some better than others. The E30 M3 was slow and had poor brakes and was a bit small. The E36 was brilliant on the road, but still had poor brakes for track work. E46 was my favourite but still had poor brakes for track work. E90 had a crap driving position (Too high), crap brakes and used so much fuel it was slower than a transit van on any 300 mile plus journey, to me it was the worst of the M3's and I went back to an E46 and then an E60 M5. The E60 M5 was great, just too big for the South Wests roads to really have fun and was nearly as slow as the E90 M3 over long trips due to is small fuel tank and consumption.
The F80 M3 rectifies all the previous problems to my mind. I can carry 4 people in comfort. I have driven over 400 miles on a tank of fuel at speed making it faster than my staff in a transit and therefore saving me the ribbing when they arrive back at the office before me! It handles better than the E46 which was the high point for me before. The brakes lasted all day on track at Silverstone with no ill effect (I have the standard steel items), and on a spirited drive it has a level of performance on a whole new level compared with any of the previous cars. It is by far the most complete package.
Noise. It’s no V10. It does however to me, make an inspiring noise that you can hear inside the car and it makes a lot of interesting turbo sounds particularly in sport plus mode with the windows down. Cold start sounds grim, but not quite as bad as the E60 M5 which was awful to the point of a passenger once asking if it was broken.
Traction. This M3 has serious torque from low revs. Most of the road tests and comments on this forum are based around drives in the winter and low temperatures and damp roads. It will break traction at any legal road speeds in the first 4 gears in the cold and damp. If this scares you leave the traction control on then nothing will happen. If you feel the traction control is interrupting too much then either smooth out your throttle inputs or use the M dynamic mode which will still save you from crashing but allow momentary losses of traction that you can then balance your inputs against. Turn the TC off and in the cold and damp and it requires either a sensible cautious approach or a lot of skill, if you like going sideways this is the best M car I have driven for that. I bought my car in July last year so had plenty of dry warm driving. The car is very different in the warm and dry the Michelin tires will take all the torque unless you deliberately try and break traction. As the rear tires wore out traction did become very scarce. By this I mean more caution was required, not that the car became dangerous as after all it only does what your right foot tells it.
Stones. They seems to get stuck between the rear brake disk guards and the disk making a horrible noise on a regular basis. I have read on forums that people think the brakes have broken, it does sound bad but it goes away after a few miles at worst. Other complain about tire noise. The solid rear suspension mounting does make the car louder than a normal 3 series as do the 275 rear tires. It is still very quiet at 70 –80 mph.
At Silverstone I got the chance to use a few little mentioned features of the car. The Track Lap App which maps your progress around the lap and stores steering angle, revs, brakes, throttle, speed, g force and other perimeters all of which is fun to look back on. The GoPro integration is great, allowing you to display the output of the GoPro on the screen to make sure you like the angle and then control the camera from the steering wheel controls to avoid filming the dull warm up and cool down laps. Pit speed limiter, which I admit sounds like a simple gimmick but is quite handy for 50 mph road works as well!
Overall I can see how the negativity some express about the car has come about, but I personally do not agree with any of it. I would happily recommend anybody to buy one providing they have a similar requirement from the car.
corvettedave said:
OP - whats your average mpg? what kind roads u on?, motorway, city etc??
Overall I have averaged 26.6 mpg. I do lots of short trips around north Devon and then big 300 -500 mile trips on the motorways. On long motorway drives it averages 35- 37 mpg at normal motorway speeds. My last E46 M3 averaged 23 mpg with the same use. The E60 M5 did 18 mpg.daz05 said:
The JM said:
Overall I can see how the negativity some express about the car has come about, but I personally do not agree with any of it. I would happily recommend anybody to buy one providing they have a similar requirement from the car.
Alpina D3 sounds a like better option for your usage though.BigLion said:
Interesting read, OP how are you finding it now almost a year or two on?
I have just past 35,000 miles in the car. It remains amazingly good. Since writing my original post 4 friends of mine who have experienced my car, have subsequently gone out and purchased their own, all of them love their cars, especially the chap who came out of his Golf R.I should be changing the car within the next 6 months but think I will keep it instead as I can't think of anything other than a brand new one to replace it with. I tried the new Merc C63s and found it to be so dead and heavy feeling just as the last C63, a very nice car, but not a drivers car. The new Alfa looks great but the fact their website does not work and the dealer did not know which car I was talking about let alone being able to book a test drive, could be indicative of the potential ownership experience.
My car is still on its original brake pads and discs! They have not got long left but I find it amazing after a few track days and a lot of fast road motoring. Its is also very kind on its tires considering the performance and the way I drive it. My favourite time driving the car is in the wet. It is very fast in the wet, but so exciting being able to adjust your line with the throttle at ALL speeds. On the way home from work there is one 3rd gear uphill right hand corner that is clear sighted, rain or sun I arrive home a very happy man when I have had a clear run through that corner! For me its the cars ability to put a smile on my face in the way I have just described, and then waft down the motorway doing 34 mpg 4 up in comfort, or with my mountain bike in the back with the seats folded down, that makes it such a great everyday car. IMO It covers both extremes of use a lot better than any M3 before it.
My 35,000 miles and experience in other people F80 M3's has led me to my ultimate spec if I order a new one. Comp pack, DCT, Carbon brakes, LED lights, HK stereo, comfort access. Just a shame very few people choose all these options as I would prefer not to take the full hit of depreciation on my next car..
At under £40k used cars are a serious performance bargain, buy one today!
BigLion said:
The JM said:
BigLion said:
Interesting read, OP how are you finding it now almost a year or two on?
I have just past 35,000 miles in the car. It remains amazingly good. Since writing my original post 4 friends of mine who have experienced my car, have subsequently gone out and purchased their own, all of them love their cars, especially the chap who came out of his Golf R.I should be changing the car within the next 6 months but think I will keep it instead as I can't think of anything other than a brand new one to replace it with. I tried the new Merc C63s and found it to be so dead and heavy feeling just as the last C63, a very nice car, but not a drivers car. The new Alfa looks great but the fact their website does not work and the dealer did not know which car I was talking about let alone being able to book a test drive, could be indicative of the potential ownership experience.
My car is still on its original brake pads and discs! They have not got long left but I find it amazing after a few track days and a lot of fast road motoring. Its is also very kind on its tires considering the performance and the way I drive it. My favourite time driving the car is in the wet. It is very fast in the wet, but so exciting being able to adjust your line with the throttle at ALL speeds. On the way home from work there is one 3rd gear uphill right hand corner that is clear sighted, rain or sun I arrive home a very happy man when I have had a clear run through that corner! For me its the cars ability to put a smile on my face in the way I have just described, and then waft down the motorway doing 34 mpg 4 up in comfort, or with my mountain bike in the back with the seats folded down, that makes it such a great everyday car. IMO It covers both extremes of use a lot better than any M3 before it.
My 35,000 miles and experience in other people F80 M3's has led me to my ultimate spec if I order a new one. Comp pack, DCT, Carbon brakes, LED lights, HK stereo, comfort access. Just a shame very few people choose all these options as I would prefer not to take the full hit of depreciation on my next car..
At under £40k used cars are a serious performance bargain, buy one today!
How have you found traction?
Some people say the m3 is very skittish and will fish tail even in 3rd?
I'm not a brilliant driver (to that extent) so hoping to hear that it is fine !
Traction is very strong wet or dry, but the torque is even stronger! With a sensible approach to throttle application it is possible to make extremely rapid acceleration in the lower gears, however if you simply smash the throttle to the floor with the traction control off then you can spin the tires through the first 3 gears.
A friend who came to his M3 from a Golf R was shocked by what he perceived to be a lack of traction. In fact many people who took short autumn / winter test drives felt the same way and this started a negative vibe about the car. What my friend has come to realize is that you have to drive the M3 with your head and use your senses to work out how much throttle you can use given the conditions you have at that time. I strongly suggest that people who are not prepared to drive with this approach buy something else as otherwise they will be disappointed or sat in a bush.
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction! Amongst his collection of cars now sits a comp pack M3, which gets driven a lot more than anything else..
If you do buy one, then I strongly suggest sticking to M dynamic Mode on the Traction control until you have a really good feel for how much torque you can deploy in any given conditions. MDM will allow some slip and wheel spin, but it will not allow you to get too out of shape. You can learn to balance your inputs against its intervention until you (potentially) feel the need to turn it off altogether. This will be a great way to safely develop your skills.
Max Maxasson said:
The JM said:
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction!
You were doing so well until you got to this point. There is no universe in which an M3 is quicker coming out of corners than a 991 GTS in damp conditions...or better traction in any conditions for that matter. Hanging a massive weight over the 911's rear wheels has that benefit.The traction of the 2016 M4 I drove for a day was quite poor - It seems like the E diff is a step back from the previous mechanical version..or maybe handicapped by immature software.
I don't mind a bit of power induced wheelspin at all, but the point of an LSD is to lock up both wheels when one wheel starts to spin - in the M4 what you often get is one wheel spins up and the TC kicks in and cuts the power back.
Sure by being careful with your right foot you can avoid that but it is unpleasant and annoying.
Edited by Max Maxasson on Sunday 13th November 12:26
The last M3 to have a mechanical diff with no electronic control was the E36, all subsiquent models (E46, E90) including the current cars have an electronical control mechanical diff, quite different from an e-diff in something like a Jag which uses the rear brakes to simulate a differential. As a result the diff can vary from fully open to 100% locked. I guess if you have the traction control on it never bothers locking the diff up as you obviously do not want the car to slide hence your feeling of it momentarily spinning up one wheel only?
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