E92 M3 or M135i
Discussion
I'm planning to buy a new daily runabout with potential to do the additional track day and have my eyes on a used E92 M3 or a lightly used M135i.
The prices for a 2008 E92 M3 with 40k mls and a 2013 M135i with 10k mls are about equal where I live.
It's my understanding that both cars are about equally matched on the track when it comes to lap times. Has anybody here run both for an extended period of time?
M135i:
+ more useable everyday, up to date interior and infotainment
+ smaller dimensions
+ cheaper to maintain (fuel, repairs... would even have warranty on it)
+ unassuming looks
- no LSD, would have to retrofit
- looks like a dogs breakfast
- chassis setup a bit too comfortable for the track?
E92 M3:
+ far more "interesting" engine
+ sportier chassis (?)
+ LSD standard
+ prefer the looks although it may come off a bit chavy to the environment
+ lower depreciation
- cost of ownership, potential for eye wateringly expensive bills
- higher milage
- dated interior
- much lower torque so maybe not all that quick in traffic
The prices for a 2008 E92 M3 with 40k mls and a 2013 M135i with 10k mls are about equal where I live.
It's my understanding that both cars are about equally matched on the track when it comes to lap times. Has anybody here run both for an extended period of time?
M135i:
+ more useable everyday, up to date interior and infotainment
+ smaller dimensions
+ cheaper to maintain (fuel, repairs... would even have warranty on it)
+ unassuming looks
- no LSD, would have to retrofit
- looks like a dogs breakfast
- chassis setup a bit too comfortable for the track?
E92 M3:
+ far more "interesting" engine
+ sportier chassis (?)
+ LSD standard
+ prefer the looks although it may come off a bit chavy to the environment
+ lower depreciation
- cost of ownership, potential for eye wateringly expensive bills
- higher milage
- dated interior
- much lower torque so maybe not all that quick in traffic
Lefty said:
Crafty_ said:
The residuals on the M135is have been rather good, but I think they are due for a little drop as the facelift 1 series is now out, so you may want to work that in to your thinking.
Possibly likely to be hurt further when all the PCP deals come to an end too and hundreds of them appear on the market?The new M135i is absolutely a much better looking car. Even with the 20% rebate the price works out to around £36000 for the M135i since I have to register the car in Austria where there are tax penalties for new cars with not so great fuel economy. Old but decent (2007, 20k mls) E92 M3s are well below £30000.
It's tough, my main worry is that the M135i will feel like a regular 1 series with a big engine but I've always preferred a good chassis over a strong engine. I suppose the M2 will tick all boxes but by the time it is out it will cost the same as a used M3 F80.
dvshannow said:
Interesting that you mentioned they are the same on track would have thought an m3 would have a comfy advantage
I thought so too but no... M3 seems to be faster into the corner but the M135i just has more torque coming out of them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FjeTfYYNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVwOmM3zA2w
Welshbeef said:
OP
Have you ever owned a Na V8 dry sump engine?
No. Have you ever owned a Na V8 dry sump engine?
Welshbeef said:
Do you like to work the power unit really hard to unlock its hidden gems
Yes 
Welshbeef said:
It's likely the M3 V8 will become less of a car to use as a daily before not too long as such it's knid of now or never.
True!Welshbeef said:
Do you like synthesised engine induction and exhaust noise or the real deal?
... come on now...Welshbeef said:
Do you like LSD as Std
Oh yes Welshbeef said:
Have you owned an M3 before.
NoWelshbeef said:
YOLO what's the worst that can happen? Go for the V8 enjoy it for s year then get something else.
I like your style sir. 
I found a nice, very clean '08 M3 with 26000 miles for well below £30000 close to me and contacted the owner but I'm still conflicted.
Ideally I'd want the stealth, dimensions, running costs and torque from the M135i with the "specialness" and sound of the M3. The M2 may be close to that but I expect pricing will be quite up there.
M3/M4 is great too, I test drove one at launch and was astonished by the torque. The engine sound wasn't so great but the upsides far outweigh the downsides for a daily driver, it's just far more than I'd like to spend at the moment. A new M4 is £80k after taxes over here and that's Cayman GT4 territory...
Isn't surprising how that little hatch is so close to the old "hero car" in outright performance? In the end it's still a very good hot hatch while the M3 is an icon to me and a bucket list item I'd like to tick.
Without having test driven the two, the heart says M3 but the head says M135i.
Ideally I'd want the stealth, dimensions, running costs and torque from the M135i with the "specialness" and sound of the M3. The M2 may be close to that but I expect pricing will be quite up there.
M3/M4 is great too, I test drove one at launch and was astonished by the torque. The engine sound wasn't so great but the upsides far outweigh the downsides for a daily driver, it's just far more than I'd like to spend at the moment. A new M4 is £80k after taxes over here and that's Cayman GT4 territory...
Isn't surprising how that little hatch is so close to the old "hero car" in outright performance? In the end it's still a very good hot hatch while the M3 is an icon to me and a bucket list item I'd like to tick.
Without having test driven the two, the heart says M3 but the head says M135i.
Gruber said:
marting said:
Gruber said:
What you need, chap, is a 1M 
Except for the V8, it combines the pros of both the M3 and the M135i very well indeed, and definitely has that "specialness" mentioned above.
I dont think you could pick up a 1M for OP's budget? Arent they over 40k still? Except for the V8, it combines the pros of both the M3 and the M135i very well indeed, and definitely has that "specialness" mentioned above.The OP doesn't seem to have stated his budget, so I'd agree that the 1M might be out of the question. But it would tick a lot of boxes for him and looks likely to be relatively depreciation free, even if (and it's a big if) they take a bit of a dip when the M2 eventually emerges.
I think the M135i looks better than the 1M.
I test drove a M135i at the local BMW dealer on Friday and the E92 M3 yesterday. To put this into context, our current daily shed is a Mini Cooper S R56 with the "sport suspension" option. The ride is very harsh, more so than it needs to be, but I find it extremely fun to drive - short wheelbase, not much body roll and a fun on the road without having to break the law.
The M135i felt the right size, noticeably larger than the Mini but still compact and wieldy. I was quite impressed by the torque but the very compliant suspension and light steering immediately put me off. The demo car had no adaptive suspension option but the ride was so far from what I expected from a "sporty" hatch that I don't think it would have made a difference. Of course that would make it a great daily driver but coming from the harsh mini, I don't mind some "not-so-sophisticated" damping.
The lack of LSD was quite noticeable around some hairpins in the wet with traction off. Both of these issues can be fixed though, the M135i with a decent KW or Bilstein suspension plus LSD would be a great package.
The M3 felt very big to me initially. The owner was quite encouraging and knew a few nice roads around in his area. Engine wise it really is on a completely different planet than the usual turbo-4 and turbo-6 story you get today.
It also felt better and better the harder drove and seemed to adjust to my driving style as opposed to the 1 series which somehow forced a line on me with it's turn in behaviour and body roll. The M3 just felt like it was more "on my side" whenever I drove a bit quicker, it was much sharper and predictable and thus inspired more confidence.
One downside to the M3 is that it looked more "in your face" than I had hoped. The particular car I'm looking at is a 2008 Coupe, white with carbon roof, black interior, OEM dark grey 18" wheels and 26000 miles without any modifications at all. Maybe it was the colour combination. I would have bought the M3 on the spot if the seller would have been more willing to negotiate.
Neither of the cars felt "fun" to drive in regular traffic (which the Mini does to a degree) but overall I strongly preferred the M3 over the M135i. I expected the lack of torque from the N/A M3 to be a bigger issue but realistically both cars had more power and torque than I "need".
I'm am going to test drive a friend's (remapped) A45 AMG tomorrow. They were absurdly expensive new but would cost me very little import tax due to their good mpg rating (which you can easily double in real life). After doing a bit math I found that a used A45 would cost me the same as a similarly aged/equipped M135i.
The M135i felt the right size, noticeably larger than the Mini but still compact and wieldy. I was quite impressed by the torque but the very compliant suspension and light steering immediately put me off. The demo car had no adaptive suspension option but the ride was so far from what I expected from a "sporty" hatch that I don't think it would have made a difference. Of course that would make it a great daily driver but coming from the harsh mini, I don't mind some "not-so-sophisticated" damping.
The lack of LSD was quite noticeable around some hairpins in the wet with traction off. Both of these issues can be fixed though, the M135i with a decent KW or Bilstein suspension plus LSD would be a great package.
The M3 felt very big to me initially. The owner was quite encouraging and knew a few nice roads around in his area. Engine wise it really is on a completely different planet than the usual turbo-4 and turbo-6 story you get today.
It also felt better and better the harder drove and seemed to adjust to my driving style as opposed to the 1 series which somehow forced a line on me with it's turn in behaviour and body roll. The M3 just felt like it was more "on my side" whenever I drove a bit quicker, it was much sharper and predictable and thus inspired more confidence.
One downside to the M3 is that it looked more "in your face" than I had hoped. The particular car I'm looking at is a 2008 Coupe, white with carbon roof, black interior, OEM dark grey 18" wheels and 26000 miles without any modifications at all. Maybe it was the colour combination. I would have bought the M3 on the spot if the seller would have been more willing to negotiate.
Neither of the cars felt "fun" to drive in regular traffic (which the Mini does to a degree) but overall I strongly preferred the M3 over the M135i. I expected the lack of torque from the N/A M3 to be a bigger issue but realistically both cars had more power and torque than I "need".
I'm am going to test drive a friend's (remapped) A45 AMG tomorrow. They were absurdly expensive new but would cost me very little import tax due to their good mpg rating (which you can easily double in real life). After doing a bit math I found that a used A45 would cost me the same as a similarly aged/equipped M135i.
ORD said:
I expect that's, for this reason, a go-faster A class won't cut the mustard.
I agree and don’t really expect to enjoy the A45, but 400 PS in a compact AWD hatch that received very positive reviews all around ( obligatory chris harris video here — the tenor was always "... but the price!") plus the opportunity to drive one made me curious.I think the M2 will be a very interesting ownership proposition if it manages to combine the right bits from the M135i (size, technology, economy) and old M3 (chassis, balance, LSD, steering). But the V8 engine is of course never coming back.
I might just wait for the M2 unless another keenly priced M3 shows up.
bennyboysvuk said:
OP, which will you go for then? Or will you go the 911 route instead, which could be another possibility?
Still undecided but leaning towards the M3. Test driving the A45 tonight.As for Porsches, they are definitely on my list but not at this point in time. I bought a '71 911 2.2 S six years ago when my friends bought flashy new motors. It's a glorious motoring experience but it has also taught me that the green eyed monster is alive and well, hiding in places where you least expect it.
That's why I'm looking for something a bit more "under the radar", something that's fun to drive, doesn't turn heads and won't have me worried about door dings when I park it to buy groceries. I feel like a M135i or E92 M3 (rebadged to 316i
) would fulfil that job nicely.If I left the whole envy factor out of consideration (inevitably many of you will tell me I'm an idiot for caring what other people think and that's ok) I'd probably buy a 987 Cayman R or Spyder.
Crafty_ said:
Interested in the OPs man maths on an A45, lowest I've seen is low 30s, so unless I'm missing something they are quite a bit more than the 1er/E92 etc. It would have been on my list, but as it is they're out of budget..
Crafty_ said:
Interested in the OPs man maths on an A45, lowest I've seen is low 30s, so unless I'm missing something they are quite a bit more than the 1er/E92 etc. It would have been on my list, but as it is they're out of budget..
I have to register the car in Austria (where I currently live because of my job) and they have import taxes based on Co2 emission. The taxes are based on the first year of registration and go up every year, so 7 year old E92 M3 with bonkers fuel consumption costs very little import tax (2000€) while a new 2014 M135i costs a lot (9000€).The A45 has the advantage of being available as a 2013 model with 169g Co2 which makes the import tax cheap (3000€) and thus closes the gap to the M135i.
So if you're wondering why all car manufacturers are ruining their cars with 4-pot turbos and heavy hybrid systems, there is your answer.
A new Cayman GT4 costs 30% (22000£) more to register here than in UK, Germany or elsewhere.
At the same time a new 918 costs nothing because of the 72g/100km rating.
"Dumb" doesn't even begin to describe this system. It's another reason why I'm leaning towards the E92 M3 with the thirsty V8 because even if BMW decided to build another car with an engine like this I wouldn't be able to register it here, not without paying 50% more than the rest of the world.
nickfrog said:
Having driven a R56 on "sport" suspension around Goodwood it didn't even take the (modest) curbs without losing lat grip or traction (or both) where the std suspension was faster at the apex because it was softer. As you infer (or Colin Chapman for that matter) it's all about damping / control.
Yes, that's what I'm used to. The suspension is very harsh and most cars on sale these days have a softer and much more capable suspension without any disadvantages. I found that even though the suspension is far from optimal it does make the car quite fun on the street.Drove my coworker's friends A45 today and it was quite something. It had OEM tyres (forgot to check which) and a remap to allegedly 410 bhp and 560 Nm. Scary fast, I'd say no slower than a F80 M4 in a straight line, minus the traction drama.
The ride was relatively hard and steering was direct (which I enjoyed) with very little body roll (compared to the M135i) but it felt like it would neither oversteer nor understeer at the speeds I drove.
In fact it felt like it was on rails, kind of like a mid-engined car with lazier turn in and without the mid corner adjustability.
The gearbox was the biggest disappointment, slow to react and sometimes simply ignored downshifts. There was quite a lot of turbo lag and the engine sounded more than a bit embarrassing in "Sports" mode with the valved sports exhaust option. It was just plain loud with enormous noise on shifts but not very nice to listen to.
Overall not what I'm looking for but I get the term "super hot hatch" now.
What a quick car though! It felt like it would lunch anything this side of a 911 Turbo in terms of downright pace around some more technical roads up a local mountain.
bennyboysvuk said:
Eric - Interesting findings on the A45. All those things would put me off, so are you back to looking at the M3 again?
Yep, I am! Still in talks with the seller of the local car. I'm considering a wrap in a fairly boring colour like grey metallic with silver wheels.rassi said:
If I were you OP, go for an E92 with the updated CIC nav (so September 2008 onwards) and with DCT, you will have a very complete car and the last NA M made.
The particular model I'm looking at is a 2008 with DCT and Business radio. I quite like the clean look of the dash and suspect that any infotainment system from 2008 will be slow and unusable compared to my smartphone stuck to the dashboard. If I can get some sort of AUX in for a bluetooth adapter, I'm happy.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff