E36 M3 EVO upgrades

[CRACKIE]

I've got the "I've had the car for 2 years and want a change" itch but can't find an alternative within my budget ( £10k + EVO ) so have decided to treat the EVO instead. The car is now at 72K miles and had a new VANOS under warranty at 60K miles (Murketts Huntingdon). All appears well - currently running on some new Conti SportContacts.

I'd like to improve the engine's torque/power and remove the flat spots + improve the poor intitial steering feel and turn in.

I would value any feedback and opinions on the following proposals.

1. Simota Induction Kit.
2. Supersprint rear box.
3. Remap at EVO-S. ( considered Bexley Motor Works and Thorney Motorsport ) cos they all seem to have great reputations.
4. Eibach Pro Springs.
5. Powerflex polyeurethane bushes.
6. H&R anti roll bars.
7. BMW Motorsport lower cross brace ( from E36 convert )
8. Goodridge braided brake lines.
9. BMW braided clutch hose.
10. OMP front strut brace.
11. Suspension geometry setup - not sure by who though.

I appreciate that I'm not likely to see 321PS / 316.6 BHP on a standard 72K mile car but what do you think are realistic before and after power figures. I remember Total BMW did a rolling road day on ZMCoupes a while ago and the average for the S50 B32 engines was 313.5bhp with a best of 327.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 18th July 13:16

[CRACKIE]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice

[CRACKIE]

There appears to be a very common link to all the replies ( thanks again ) that I should be improving brakes prior to engine work. Will do.

I'm not expecting huge gains from the engine work just some smoothing out of the VANOS step. I guess the reason for the induction kit and exhaust is more for noise rather than HP but the sound M3s make is part of the appeal

I should have added that my target is fast road rather than trackday machine ( for the time being anyway until children are older ) I had a 944 Turbo SE a few years back and it was very flattering to drive; I felt I could anticipate what it was going to behave like when pushing hard but with the M3 I find it less faithfull and harder to predict the response to inputs. Hope that makes sense.

If BMW have stopped producing the braided clutch hose does anyone have any experience of the "Hose Solutions" one available on E-bay ?

Thorney Motorsport seem to favour KW coilovers. Anyone got any experience of these ?.

Cheers for now.

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 30th May 15:22

[CRACKIE]

Thanks Joe ~ your description of wallowing and side to side movement over crests gave me a bit of deja vu. Now I need a couple of weeks off the juice to save up for coilovers.

I have no experience here whatsoever ; I'm keen to improve / optimise damping for road use but dont want too run our of travel so don't really want to alter height too much. Say 25mm at front and 15mm rear ; most of the coilover specs I've seen so far seem to be track biased with ride height reduced by 30mm minimum. I guess a full adjustable coilover setup will cover all options.

Will let you know how things progress.

Cheers

[CRACKIE]

Thanks Dan, would you advocate beefing up the top shock mounts ( rear particularly ). It appears to be a weakness E36s but not everyone says it is a must.

I guess kerbs etc on track days apply much higher loads and stresses than road work.

Cheers

[CRACKIE]

Kurt, Tom Thanks : I think you're right regarding a full adjustable coilover setup being overkill for me so I'm going to fit the Bilstein kit you suggested.

Will let you know how it all works out. Cheers.

Dave.

[CRACKIE]

Thanks gents' I can see the benefits of each option. Looks like CA Automotive have KW variant 1 coilovers ( adjustable height and fixed damping ) for only £685 or less than £50 per corner extra relative to the Bilstein Sprintline Kit.

This KW option gives the option of not lowering very far ie a 30mm drop at the front and 20mm rear - sounds about right for me judging by the current "daylight" between tyre and arch.

Do you think the KW's would show a performance improvement ( to justify the extra £200 ) over the Bilsteins ?

Thanks

Dave

[CRACKIE]

Thanks ASBO & Tom ~ based upon advice so far the revised list, in order of priority, reads.

1. Goodridge braided brake lines.
2. Ferodo DS2500 pads + upgrade fluid.
3. Eibach Sprintline Kit.
4. Eibach anti roll bars.
5. Replacement of all other bushes with OE type + eccentric TCA bushes.
6. Suspension geometry setup at Bexley.
7. Motorsport lower cross brace.
8. OMP front strut brace.
9. BMW braided clutch hose.
10. Supersprint rear box.
11. Remap.

I'm hoping to have items 1~5 sorted during the next 14 days and will let you know the outcome.

Many thanks,
Dave.

[CRACKIE]

www.bmsport.com and www.c3bmw.co.uk both have some of the originals left I think. I ordered one from Nigel at Bexley earlier this week. Dave.

[CRACKIE]

Progress report on work carried out so far. All results are relative to original factory spec. with 73K mile suspension and 30K mile bushes.
1. Eibach Pro Kit springs. Result ~ Lowered the car further than the expected 25mm front and 15mm rear. Car feels much tighter & less "floaty" even using original old shocks. 7/10

2. Eibach anti roll bars ( front set to hard & rear set to soft ). Result ~ Big big stability improvement particulary with fast direction changes, roundabouts. 8/10

3. OMP front strut brace. Result ~ hard to identify the contribution of strut brace alone because it was fitted at same time as ARBs. Edit ~ Removed and then replaced the brace to to check it's effect. Very little difference and then only noticeable when driving like you stole it. 2/10. Do X-brace first.

4. Braided clutch hose ( from Bexley ). Result ~ Big improvement with much lighter action and higher biting point. 8/10

5. Goodridge braided brake lines, DOT 5.1 fluid & Black Diamond pads. Result Hoses ~ Firmer pedal with improved feel. Pads ~ Quick to warm up, powerful, a bit noisy, low brake dust. Braided lines 6/10 Pads 6/10

6. Simota induction Kit, Supersprint Cat back & Remap at Evolve. Work carried out on 21st April. Result ~ 299BHP pre mods, 307 after induction Kit, 309 after induction and exhaust, 319 after induction, exhaust and map. All positive from a driving point of view:- part throttle response, mid range torque, top end power all much improved. Over 4K revs the car feels very quick, equal to E46 if not quicker. Only downside is slightly increased fuel consumption, maybe 1 mpg but I'm putting that down to me using the extra power every time the engine's up to temp 9/10

7. Eccentric Front bushes. Better response about the straight ahead and much better turn in 8/10. Rear trailling arm bushes. Back end better over broken surfaces, doesn't "sidestep" as much. 7/10

8. Bilstein B6 dampers. Too soft for track work but I think ideal for driving I do on the shocking roads in and around Huntingdon Increased the ride height by 10~15mm relative to original 73K mile shocks. 8/10.

9. Lower X brace. Much sharper turn in ~ steering now feels 15K miles old now not 73K. 7/10

10. Geometry setup. Icing on the cake. 8/10

Still to do........
11. Rogue rear top shock mounts. Brand new standard spec mounts couldn't cope with the extra loads, from the uprated suspension, after only 10 miles of "enthusiastic" driving in the Yorkshire Dales !!!!
12. Check & set up the valve clearances.
13. Steering rack from Z3 or E46 Compact. No hurry now geometry sorted.
14. Front seats that grip better than Vadars and don't weigh 33Kg each !!
15. Lightweight flywheel & clutch.

Maybe........
16. Lightweight 18" alloys. ( vanity really )

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 24th October 10:13

[CRACKIE]

Understood re. pictures. Will post ASAP

[CRACKIE]

shamrock said:

CRACKIE said:

6. Simota induction Kit, Supersprint Cat back & Remap at Evolve. Work carried out on 21st April. Result ~ 299BHP pre mods, 307 after induction Kit, 309 after induction and exhaust, 319 after induction, exhaust and map. All positive from a driving point of view:- part throttle response, mid range torque, top end power all much improved. Over 4K revs the car feels very quick, equal to E46 if not qucker. Only downside is increased fuel consumption but I'm putting that down to the fact I'm now enjoying the extra power at every oportunity the engine's up to temp 8/10

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 30th May 14:50

Just out of interest, would a 319bhp E36 really be as quick or quicker than an 338bhp (do they dyno at 338bhp?)E46?

I know that has probably been done to death but I can't seem to find any good threads on this.

My M3 Evo is Standard except for a Simota and dyno's at 316bhp but I haven't managed to find an E46 M3 to test it against yet.

Shamrock ~ The S54 enigine in the E46 feels to me like it has more low down torque than the S50 in the E36 but the E46 is about 80Kg heavier so power and torque to weights are very very close. E46 gearing helps at start and the E36's small front area helps above 100 so in a drag there is next to nothing in it. Check out these links. Even the guys in the E46 have to admit the E36 is "schneller"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NlXXqgNfro&fea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss2FgMiv2fo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGDoTqAxFQ&fea...

Edited by CRACKIE on Thursday 5th June 18:04

[CRACKIE]

cosworth330 said:

Fitted Eibach ARB's yesterday, set front hard & rear soft. Also fitted some powerflex bushes to the rear trailing arms & front wishbone bushes. A few weeks ago i fitted new front & rear shocks/springs & all associated nuts bolts/drop links,E46 cab rear top mounts,Z3 plates. The car drives so differently now, nice & tight but still rides the bumps ok on our roads, i wanted to keep standard ride height & some comfort hence the OEM shocks/springs. The difference the ARB's have made is amazing, its taken a lot of roll out & feels very stable on the twisty stuff now. Is it worth getting 4 wheel alignment done ?

Alignment is a must after major suspension replacement like yours - opinions vary on best E36 geometry though. Best to do search on here or http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/ 'cos it is down to personal taste and if you want the car track or road biassed.

No experience of Performance Friction gear - sorry.

[CRACKIE]

AM-BM said:

CRACKIE said:

Progress report on work carried out so far. All results are relative to original factory spec. with 73K mile suspension and 30K mile bushes.
1. Eibach Pro Kit springs. Result ~ Lowered the car further than the expected 25mm front and 15mm rear. Car feels much tighter & less "floaty" even using original old shocks. 7/10

2. Eibach anti roll bars ( front set to hard & rear set to soft ). Result ~ Big big stability improvement particulary with fast direction changes, roundabouts. 8/10

3. OMP front strut brace. Result ~ hard to identify the contribution of strut brace alone because it was fitted at same time as ARBs. Edit ~ Removed and then replaced the brace to to check it's effect. Very little difference and then only noticeable when driving like you stole it. 2/10. Do X-brace first.

4. Braided clutch hose ( from Bexley ). Result ~ Big improvement with much lighter action and higher biting point. 8/10

5. Goodridge braided brake lines, DOT 5.1 fluid & Black Diamond pads. Result Hoses ~ Firmer pedal with improved feel. Pads ~ Quick to warm up, powerful, a bit noisy, low brake dust. Braided lines 6/10 Pads 6/10

6. Simota induction Kit, Supersprint Cat back & Remap at Evolve. Work carried out on 21st April. Result ~ 299BHP pre mods, 307 after induction Kit, 309 after induction and exhaust, 319 after induction, exhaust and map. All positive from a driving point of view:- part throttle response, mid range torque, top end power all much improved. Over 4K revs the car feels very quick, equal to E46 if not quicker. Only downside is slightly increased fuel consumption, maybe 1 mpg but I'm putting that down to me using the extra power every time the engine's up to temp 9/10

7. Eccentric Front bushes. Better response about the straight ahead and much better turn in 8/10. Rear trailling arm bushes. Back end better over broken surfaces, doesn't "sidestep" as much. 7/10

8. Bilstein B6 dampers. Too soft for track work but I think ideal for driving I do on the shocking roads in and around Huntingdon Increased the ride height by 10~15mm relative to original 73K mile shocks. 8/10.

9. Lower X brace. Much sharper turn in ~ steering now feels 15K miles old now not 73K. 7/10

10. Geometry setup. Icing on the cake. 8/10

11. Rogue Engineering rear top shock mounts. IMHO A must do mod if you have a car with original spec mounts. The Rogue mounts tie down the "vague" rear end over humps and bumps. Much better at putting power down out of slow corners and junctions too. Brand new standard spec mounts couldn't cope with the extra loads from uprated suspension after only 10 miles of "enthusiastic" driving in the Yorkshire Dales !!!! 9/10.

Still to do........
12. Check & set up the valve clearances.
13. Steering rack from Z3 or E46 Compact. No hurry now geometry sorted.
14. Front seats that grip better than Vadars and don't weigh 33Kg each !!
15. Lightweight flywheel & clutch.

Maybe........
16. Lightweight 18" alloys. ( vanity really )


CRACKIE, have you got some rough prices on these bits you did. Looking to do similar to my'n.
Did you use Bexleys for all this?

Hi AM-BM, Will post part costs / sources + fitting labour prices later today if poss. Got to find receipts first

Edited by CRACKIE on Wednesday 21st January 13:58

[CRACKIE]

Suppliers in brackets ~ most prices from mid 2008 when work was done.
1. Eibach Pro Kit E2059-140 springs. ( Bexley ) £191.00
2. Eibach anti roll bars E2033-320. ( Bexley ) £269.00
3. OMP front strut brace MA/1742. ( E-Bay ) £106.00
4. Braided clutch hose ( Bexley ). £56.00
5. Goodridge braided brake lines ( E-Bay ) £68.00
+ Black Diamond pads. ( C3BMW ) £103.00
6. Simota induction Kit, Supersprint Cat back & Remap ( Evolve / EVO-S ). £1218. fitted. ( £1098 for parts + £120 fitting from memory )
7. Eccentric Front bushes. ( Bensten Motors ) £23.00
8. Bilstein B6 dampers. ( CA Automotive ) £490.00
9. Lower X brace. ( CA Automotive ) £95.00
10. Geometry setup. ( Bensten Motors ) £125.00
11. Rogue rear top shock mounts. ( Evolve / EVO-S ) £95.00

Cost of parts £ 2662 and cost for fitting was £515 so total = £3177. I was very lucky with labour rate for fitting @ only £20/hour !!!

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 13th March 10:23

[CRACKIE]

AM-BM said:

dan101smith said:

You can get them from GSF for that sort of price.

AM-BM - you know your link earlier was for a clutch hose, not brake lines?

Yes, was wondering if people used Goodridge for clutch hose or not?

Not sure who Bexley use to manufacture their Clutch hoses but quality was great; could be a Goodridge item anyway. Relatively easy to fit too.

[CRACKIE]

mat205125 said:

CRACKIE said:

10. Geometry setup. ( Bensten Motors ) £125.00

What settings did they aim to get the car to?

Was this a simple laser alignment to adjust the tracking, etc, or a proper motorsport corner weight adjustment?

Hello Mat ~ Sorry to say I didn't ask Bensten what they did ~ I asked them to set the car up to get best turn in/least understeer possible whilst keeping tyre wear sensible. Front end is great and 8k miles on front tyre wear is low and even over full tread width. I'm sure it wasn't corner weighted but I'll speak with them and find out the camber and toe in used and post ASAP.

[CRACKIE]

swtmerce said:

If it doesn't raise by itself (and I can't see how it could) then all you need do is go to BMW and buy some thicker spring pads to insert between the spring and chassis.

Apologies if my post is ambiguous ~ my car didn't raise by itself. My experience was that ride height went up approx 10mm when my 73K mile OEM dampers were changed to new the Bilsteins. I think AM-BM is hoping for the same 10mm increase when he fits new shocks to the back of his.

[CRACKIE]

Apologies ~ finally got round to posting some pics........

Ride height with stock suspension at 56k miles back in summer 2006.


Next 3 pics show ride height with Eibach and Bilstein suspension.






Following 2 pictures are recent ( 92K miles ) with Rogue rear shock mounts.




OMP strut and Simota Induction




Results of Exhaust, Induction and Evolve Map

Edited by CRACKIE on Tuesday 18th May 13:39

[CRACKIE]

Sorry about that GP.....

Car is a bit of a mixed bag right now........ I had new gearbox and engine mounts fitted 3 weeks ago and it has tightened things up noticeably; I needed a new propshaft coupling and decided to replace some of the other rubber perishables at the same time. Steering is currently shocking however, a quicker ratio rack from the E46 Compact is going on this Saturday along with new track rods so hopefully she'll be back to top form ( once geometry sorted again )