Z4M 2007 Problems at high speed
Discussion
Guys I am looking for some help, I own a BMW Z4M on a 07 plate.
When accelerating heavily through the gates of speed in fifth gear I can reach approx 158mph indicated, but when I try this from 120 in 6th I get the car to jump into limp mode and a limitation on revs of 1200rpm approx. I can then turn it off and back on at stand still and fault will clear, BMW does not know what the issue is and cannot help as it is out of warranty and are generally not interested.
Please could someone give me some clues as what could be the issue or if any one has had this problem, as far as i know the limiter is still fitted to the car.
The car had 2 years ago a small accident by the looks of it, with a small spray job.
The car is black, 19" allows additional engine bay torsional bars, lowered 35mm for additional stability etc.
Nick
When accelerating heavily through the gates of speed in fifth gear I can reach approx 158mph indicated, but when I try this from 120 in 6th I get the car to jump into limp mode and a limitation on revs of 1200rpm approx. I can then turn it off and back on at stand still and fault will clear, BMW does not know what the issue is and cannot help as it is out of warranty and are generally not interested.
Please could someone give me some clues as what could be the issue or if any one has had this problem, as far as i know the limiter is still fitted to the car.
The car had 2 years ago a small accident by the looks of it, with a small spray job.
The car is black, 19" allows additional engine bay torsional bars, lowered 35mm for additional stability etc.
Nick
Hello john thanx for reply,
what roads are a question lol, the problems happen in 6th from 120 + upwards only on average 124 - 130 ish.
The car then goes completely into limp mode and will not reset until ignition is switched off and back on then all is fine the fault codes are air fuel mixture every time, but friend and mechanics seem to think this is where it is on ramp down and killing the ignition circuit and running lean on the ramp down.
what roads are a question lol, the problems happen in 6th from 120 + upwards only on average 124 - 130 ish.
The car then goes completely into limp mode and will not reset until ignition is switched off and back on then all is fine the fault codes are air fuel mixture every time, but friend and mechanics seem to think this is where it is on ramp down and killing the ignition circuit and running lean on the ramp down.
Thanks for the idea of back fire - missing etc, but the three times BMW have looked at it, it only shows fuel mixuture errors so would not suspect a coil pack etc or equivilent.
I undstand the factor of 70mph but owning this kind car and my general need for speed in the quiet hours (out of the country) means i do like to push a car to know what it is capable of.
I have had a couple of people mention ABS issues with alignment sensors, but seems more likely to be a 6th gear releated issue as rev range works through-out all other gear sets.
Hopefully we will all come to a more definetive answer with time and progress.
Nick
I undstand the factor of 70mph but owning this kind car and my general need for speed in the quiet hours (out of the country) means i do like to push a car to know what it is capable of.
I have had a couple of people mention ABS issues with alignment sensors, but seems more likely to be a 6th gear releated issue as rev range works through-out all other gear sets.
Hopefully we will all come to a more definetive answer with time and progress.
Nick
Might be the limiter mis working, but doubt it would be engaged at 120mph, I have just stripped out my DME and cleaned, resealed the unit as BMW found some moisture entry, on inspection PROPERLY no moisture only case corrosion so have removed PCB cleaned and resealed 90% excluding connection end.
Question looks like the DME is ment to have a seal around the outer casing in terms of a rubber seal which was not there and moisture had just started to creap into the case, I have clean PCB, and case and brackets and waterproof sealed it which will be sufficient for the forseable future, but is it ment to include a seal from the factory??
The limiter has not been removed by the way and the DME has not been chipped, as I have now inspected it!
Question looks like the DME is ment to have a seal around the outer casing in terms of a rubber seal which was not there and moisture had just started to creap into the case, I have clean PCB, and case and brackets and waterproof sealed it which will be sufficient for the forseable future, but is it ment to include a seal from the factory??
The limiter has not been removed by the way and the DME has not been chipped, as I have now inspected it!
Hey Guys Time for a timely update!!!!
The on going issues with speed, the car has now down shifted the problem to 5 gear also around the same ish speed.
This means ruling out the speed limiter if it was ever active on my model. I have had no problems with the DME or fault codes even relating to this.
Fault codes listed are now below
PO172
PO175
PO16A7
The codes are all air path and happen at high speed.
The last code is MAF but think this has been generated when people have been diagnosing (trying too) un-pluging etc.
Recent data diagnosis show fuel economy has dropped between 11 and 14 mpg.
I have cleaned MAF just incase and throttle response increased and the magical 6th gear issue vanished for 1 thrashing!40+.
I ordered a new ORIGINAL BOSCH MAF and fitted today the problem has been increased now issues at 80-90mph 5th and 6th gear. Same codes but generally bad running hesitating and jerky under full throttle accel throughout.
I will install old MAF tomorrow but do not believe this is the main issue.
QUESTION:
When changing MAF on Z4M E86 chassis does the ECU have adaptive software for ageing of MAF's I know 3,5,7 series do but have never heard of this for Z4M's.
Due to my un-helpfull BMW deep pocket dealer I will not be returning to them, even though the car has a 0 excess extended warranty no worth the paper its written on, for my sins I have now been to see and spoken to in-depth a company called Motor Aid in basildon, they looked at the car FREE of charge for 1 hr and could not find anything so have asked me to leave the car with them for diagnosis again which is chargeable to me, but as they change parts throughout the back and forth process will only charge me for faulty parts not any part they feels just might need to be replaced like BMW southend.
This company will hopefully help me to the point where I can resolve all issues asap, I will keep you all updated as this is a strange problem and would imagine most people are curious.
Regards
Nick
The on going issues with speed, the car has now down shifted the problem to 5 gear also around the same ish speed.
This means ruling out the speed limiter if it was ever active on my model. I have had no problems with the DME or fault codes even relating to this.
Fault codes listed are now below
PO172
PO175
PO16A7
The codes are all air path and happen at high speed.
The last code is MAF but think this has been generated when people have been diagnosing (trying too) un-pluging etc.
Recent data diagnosis show fuel economy has dropped between 11 and 14 mpg.
I have cleaned MAF just incase and throttle response increased and the magical 6th gear issue vanished for 1 thrashing!40+.
I ordered a new ORIGINAL BOSCH MAF and fitted today the problem has been increased now issues at 80-90mph 5th and 6th gear. Same codes but generally bad running hesitating and jerky under full throttle accel throughout.
I will install old MAF tomorrow but do not believe this is the main issue.
QUESTION:
When changing MAF on Z4M E86 chassis does the ECU have adaptive software for ageing of MAF's I know 3,5,7 series do but have never heard of this for Z4M's.
Due to my un-helpfull BMW deep pocket dealer I will not be returning to them, even though the car has a 0 excess extended warranty no worth the paper its written on, for my sins I have now been to see and spoken to in-depth a company called Motor Aid in basildon, they looked at the car FREE of charge for 1 hr and could not find anything so have asked me to leave the car with them for diagnosis again which is chargeable to me, but as they change parts throughout the back and forth process will only charge me for faulty parts not any part they feels just might need to be replaced like BMW southend.
This company will hopefully help me to the point where I can resolve all issues asap, I will keep you all updated as this is a strange problem and would imagine most people are curious.
Regards
Nick
Well afternoon all time for the constructive update.
The car has now been out of action getting of three weeks some good news some bad news anyway here we go:
Faults remaining after checking, fuel pump, solenoids, injectors, fuel pressures static and dynamic, spark plugs, mass air flow sensor, vanos units, air filter, wiring loom.
BMW told me they updated the firmware to latest edit for that DME, guess what it had not been updated this the cars/DME production and I watched them extract the log files etc, good old BMW Stealers they really do know how to lye.
Anyway after MAD updated the firmware it resolved alot of the issues etc but still jumping into limp mode in hard accelleration, so we decided the following,
Suspected DME failure as fault was internal DME air mass fault, so we decided between myself and the company that they would order a new DME £640 +VAT and if it sold the problem they would charge labour and if not they would let me have it net cost to them.
Gues what the DME and new firmware resulted in a much faster response to throttle and general running but not overal resolve.
Next step the company was doing a training seninar with BMW, so you guessed it through the back door and straight to the top of the tree for diag, unfortunatley they listed everything to check that has already been checked, so no help there, they also took the log file from the DME and tried to run scenarios etc.
In the mean time MAD also hired a rolling road and ( 4 wheel ) and let the car have it, good news to a point the rolling road allowed them to check torque, MPH, emmissions, BHP, etc.
The charts strangely was perfect for all except rpm and BHP 2700rpm and a definent shelf/flat spot appears, this information was also given to BMW etc.
As you can tell by now it has started to become one hell of a strange and irratic issue which BMW as predicted and previous experience pointed too had NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER.
So on with the story at this point MAD also said they was expecting to see a fueling issue and emmssions but everything is bang on 328bhp @ 5300rpm. I left the car there for a couple of days and decided to take it back I spoke to a gentlemen there who as I was saying I was going to take it had been speaking to a speciallist tuning company they use for BMW M Spec etc S54 engines and have come up with a suggestion that the throttle motor may be causing all the issues, so they have agreed to buy the part and if it fixes it charge me and if it dont then I do not pay anything appart from the ECU which was fair game.
Its been delivered and there fitting now so the car at present is the only one known to man with this issue and BMW cannot diagnose, at least I am working with a company that actually wants to help!!!!!
More updated soon.
The car has now been out of action getting of three weeks some good news some bad news anyway here we go:
Faults remaining after checking, fuel pump, solenoids, injectors, fuel pressures static and dynamic, spark plugs, mass air flow sensor, vanos units, air filter, wiring loom.
BMW told me they updated the firmware to latest edit for that DME, guess what it had not been updated this the cars/DME production and I watched them extract the log files etc, good old BMW Stealers they really do know how to lye.
Anyway after MAD updated the firmware it resolved alot of the issues etc but still jumping into limp mode in hard accelleration, so we decided the following,
Suspected DME failure as fault was internal DME air mass fault, so we decided between myself and the company that they would order a new DME £640 +VAT and if it sold the problem they would charge labour and if not they would let me have it net cost to them.
Gues what the DME and new firmware resulted in a much faster response to throttle and general running but not overal resolve.
Next step the company was doing a training seninar with BMW, so you guessed it through the back door and straight to the top of the tree for diag, unfortunatley they listed everything to check that has already been checked, so no help there, they also took the log file from the DME and tried to run scenarios etc.
In the mean time MAD also hired a rolling road and ( 4 wheel ) and let the car have it, good news to a point the rolling road allowed them to check torque, MPH, emmissions, BHP, etc.
The charts strangely was perfect for all except rpm and BHP 2700rpm and a definent shelf/flat spot appears, this information was also given to BMW etc.
As you can tell by now it has started to become one hell of a strange and irratic issue which BMW as predicted and previous experience pointed too had NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER.
So on with the story at this point MAD also said they was expecting to see a fueling issue and emmssions but everything is bang on 328bhp @ 5300rpm. I left the car there for a couple of days and decided to take it back I spoke to a gentlemen there who as I was saying I was going to take it had been speaking to a speciallist tuning company they use for BMW M Spec etc S54 engines and have come up with a suggestion that the throttle motor may be causing all the issues, so they have agreed to buy the part and if it fixes it charge me and if it dont then I do not pay anything appart from the ECU which was fair game.
Its been delivered and there fitting now so the car at present is the only one known to man with this issue and BMW cannot diagnose, at least I am working with a company that actually wants to help!!!!!
More updated soon.
Another update,
the motor unfortunately did not resolve the issue, so they have not charged me but are now unfortunately out of questions and too many answers,
in response the the injector question all fuel injection systems are working correctly and also emmissions so this is not a viable option unfortunately, I was it was that easy.
It has been booked back in with BMW synter now by MAD so we shall see if we get any further
the motor unfortunately did not resolve the issue, so they have not charged me but are now unfortunately out of questions and too many answers,
in response the the injector question all fuel injection systems are working correctly and also emmissions so this is not a viable option unfortunately, I was it was that easy.
It has been booked back in with BMW synter now by MAD so we shall see if we get any further
As for the power output they got two attempts at the rolling road so they are correct, and they have dynos to prove it at there office at the moment, it maybe up on power due to the underlying issue so we shall have to see, they did not think it caused any concern so I assume this is what they was expecting to see.
The problem unfortunately is still there during the rolling road test we simulated so the air filter is not an option which is rather anoying if it was, the engine has been stripped so many times now its starting to seem as though ill never find out, here comes a upgrade i think M5 V10 
)))
Seriously im not one to back out of a challenge and fortunatley nor is the company I am working closely with, one of the best motor companys I have had the privelege to work with!
The car will hopefully be back into BMW today and maybe with some god help they may speak to PUMA and get a clue whats going wrong the only saving at the moment is the fuel im not burning just the insurance lol.
The car on a seperate note seems to be worse when hot so we at least have another direction to go in, but it is still uncertain whether it is mechanical or electrical, im still betting electrical but we are all running out of ideas now.
)))Seriously im not one to back out of a challenge and fortunatley nor is the company I am working closely with, one of the best motor companys I have had the privelege to work with!
The car will hopefully be back into BMW today and maybe with some god help they may speak to PUMA and get a clue whats going wrong the only saving at the moment is the fuel im not burning just the insurance lol.
The car on a seperate note seems to be worse when hot so we at least have another direction to go in, but it is still uncertain whether it is mechanical or electrical, im still betting electrical but we are all running out of ideas now.
Update 3000 lol
Anyway back in BMW since wednesday last week, and guess what they took it straight out with out even asking the company which brought it in what they had tested, following this and what they thought was wrong they spoke to the company and ruled out everything they thought, surprise surprise!!!
Anyway today they have found the problem 100% guaranteed ha YA RIGHT guess what they say it is MAF, fantastic right eeerrr no, kinda a basic thing that the fact that MAD has told them that they have bypassed the unit and changed for a new one they still say this is the problem, laying in the car which I brought is the brand new OEM MAF eeeerrr thought they might have seen that ay guess not.
well here we go again what is it with BMW engineers recently are they all that dumb??
They have been clearly told what they have checked and they are just not listening.
Update soon.
Nick
Anyway back in BMW since wednesday last week, and guess what they took it straight out with out even asking the company which brought it in what they had tested, following this and what they thought was wrong they spoke to the company and ruled out everything they thought, surprise surprise!!!
Anyway today they have found the problem 100% guaranteed ha YA RIGHT guess what they say it is MAF, fantastic right eeerrr no, kinda a basic thing that the fact that MAD has told them that they have bypassed the unit and changed for a new one they still say this is the problem, laying in the car which I brought is the brand new OEM MAF eeeerrr thought they might have seen that ay guess not.
well here we go again what is it with BMW engineers recently are they all that dumb??
They have been clearly told what they have checked and they are just not listening.
Update soon.
Nick
Iain,
It has been on a rolling road with read outs, however you limited time before the fault occurs and as you are aware i am sure they can only go on 4 wheel rolling road as the wheel revolution sensors through pretty much all BMW cars into lock down.
The issue with BMW is they WILL NOT REPLACE any parts unless the customer PAYS for it even if it is the wrong part??? WHY complete rip off all BMW dealers have to abide to this methode as far as I know.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Nick
It has been on a rolling road with read outs, however you limited time before the fault occurs and as you are aware i am sure they can only go on 4 wheel rolling road as the wheel revolution sensors through pretty much all BMW cars into lock down.
The issue with BMW is they WILL NOT REPLACE any parts unless the customer PAYS for it even if it is the wrong part??? WHY complete rip off all BMW dealers have to abide to this methode as far as I know.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Nick
afternoon, lads
the car has now been with ,BMW for 3 weeks this wednesday and they cannot diagnose the issue, they have tried to tell me that 4 MAF sensors could be faulty and the most recent that a earth both has caused the issue eer NO!!
Less use our brains for once earth bolts from the engine cause irratic starting and will arc across the bolt or lights will do strange things not flat spots and engine dying with no fault codes!!!
Well what they have said now is that because the car may have been in a accident in its life like most cars they will not uphold the warranty and they now want 23hrs of labour before they will go any further with fault finding on the vehicle. They cannot tell me if th reapir has caused the issue they say there may be a screw through a wiring loom or someone may have plugged the wrong plug into th wrong sensor, correct me if im wrong but all plugs are different and chassis earth with a screw would through fault codes!!!
The problem is I cannot afford to take there opinion any more they still do not know where it is warranty or not and want cash up front even though they have no idea.
Correct me if I seem off but whats stopping them from saying its down to a possible accident that they car may have had in its past even though I have driven the car for 4 months after purchasing and car drove fine they will not listen to reason and are just after money, I do not plan on paying them anything!!
If anyone is up for stripping the car with me or can give me any ideas then by all means, otherwise I can see me selling the car what a f****ing shame!
Regards
Nick
the car has now been with ,BMW for 3 weeks this wednesday and they cannot diagnose the issue, they have tried to tell me that 4 MAF sensors could be faulty and the most recent that a earth both has caused the issue eer NO!!
Less use our brains for once earth bolts from the engine cause irratic starting and will arc across the bolt or lights will do strange things not flat spots and engine dying with no fault codes!!!
Well what they have said now is that because the car may have been in a accident in its life like most cars they will not uphold the warranty and they now want 23hrs of labour before they will go any further with fault finding on the vehicle. They cannot tell me if th reapir has caused the issue they say there may be a screw through a wiring loom or someone may have plugged the wrong plug into th wrong sensor, correct me if im wrong but all plugs are different and chassis earth with a screw would through fault codes!!!
The problem is I cannot afford to take there opinion any more they still do not know where it is warranty or not and want cash up front even though they have no idea.
Correct me if I seem off but whats stopping them from saying its down to a possible accident that they car may have had in its past even though I have driven the car for 4 months after purchasing and car drove fine they will not listen to reason and are just after money, I do not plan on paying them anything!!
If anyone is up for stripping the car with me or can give me any ideas then by all means, otherwise I can see me selling the car what a f****ing shame!
Regards
Nick
Unfortunately not it seems to be a very unheard of issue which is like non existent lol, I am seriously considering taking the engine out and stripping it but just a bit of a mission for little gain as far as i can see.
I am going to try and get the car out tomorrow as they have not got a clue!!! I think I know more to be completely honest.
It has got to be electrical but something thats not recorded as a fault but can kill the engine into limp mode>
Sounds easy right lol.
I wish.
Nick
I am going to try and get the car out tomorrow as they have not got a clue!!! I think I know more to be completely honest.
It has got to be electrical but something thats not recorded as a fault but can kill the engine into limp mode>
Sounds easy right lol.
I wish.
Nick
All,
Thanks for looking around if your anything like me you are just as interested in finding the fault, being as its such a unusual issue that no one including BMW have ever heard of it.
The Vanos issue does seem a plausible issue the only thing is the faults being displayed are internal DME fault mas air flow sensor, which as we all know now has been replaced x times, they have also as stated before tried linking between the DME and MAF to rule out wiring but no change.
The car when cold is awsome no issues, when reaching a heated / normal operating temp is gives me issues and is dangerous to drive "stated by BMW themselves".
I have a possibility but cannot prove it yet as only have limited information, I have been told the car performs two stages of startup.
1: pre heat startup
2: normal running change over
If this is true I would assume there would be a difference in sensors used and possible ranges, if some one including BMW could work out which sensors are not looked at during the primary cycle then we may be one step closer!!!
If it was me I would have brought another engine by now and changed it or purchased at the least a full set of sensors and replaced one at a time to prove its not sensor related then you have engine internals but this is BMW.
Thanks
Nick
Thanks for looking around if your anything like me you are just as interested in finding the fault, being as its such a unusual issue that no one including BMW have ever heard of it.
The Vanos issue does seem a plausible issue the only thing is the faults being displayed are internal DME fault mas air flow sensor, which as we all know now has been replaced x times, they have also as stated before tried linking between the DME and MAF to rule out wiring but no change.
The car when cold is awsome no issues, when reaching a heated / normal operating temp is gives me issues and is dangerous to drive "stated by BMW themselves".
I have a possibility but cannot prove it yet as only have limited information, I have been told the car performs two stages of startup.
1: pre heat startup
2: normal running change over
If this is true I would assume there would be a difference in sensors used and possible ranges, if some one including BMW could work out which sensors are not looked at during the primary cycle then we may be one step closer!!!
If it was me I would have brought another engine by now and changed it or purchased at the least a full set of sensors and replaced one at a time to prove its not sensor related then you have engine internals but this is BMW.
Thanks
Nick
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