Antithesis of Rolex

[DJMC]

You may recall my son is (now) saving for a Rolex Submariner. I have a Datejust which is a lovely dress watch but I'm now drawn toward the look of the diver type watch, and have seen the recent posts of Westclox and Christopher Ward, plus looked at Seiko, Steinhart etc. All around £250-500 new/used. Slippery slope? Yes, I know! I'd only wear one watch at a time so what is the point of having more than one? The collectors out there will doubtless say "for different occasions" or "it's nice to have them" or "investment".

I've been there with cameras, rifles, saxophones, so I know the pitfalls of starting a "collection". It usually involves "I have to have one of those too because..."

But what of the mysterious world of other, cheaper divers "lookalikes"? (shock, horror!) where the outlay (and risk) is minimal?

I'm put off the brand new "Kahuna" and similar, but in view of the hundreds of different brands that have copied the "Fifty Fathoms" look over the years, there must be many vintage pre-owned cheapies which are well made but just overlooked by all but the very well informed.

So, is there a "newbies" list of brands to avoid?

I'm wary of anything brand new as it's bound to be fresh from China at $8.99 on alibaba or suchlike.

Here are some I've seen, old and new-ish:

Stuhrling
Mervaine
Apeks
Sewor
Weros (anagram of Sewor I just noticed!)
RLT
Benrus
Arlbor
Invicta
Orient

All rubbish so far?

Then you see the Steinhart, CH Ward, and similar "good" brands at £250 pre-owned but who's to say they are genuine? It's "only" £250 but I've no wish to throw this amount away on a fake.

I have bought many, many cameras, rifles, saxophones at bargain prices but that was after research which took many years as I took up each as a hobby which involved both using the items and then collecting. With watches I can't really see them as a "useful" hobby so as to get into them the same way. And without this involvement I'm less likely to do very involved research into all the brands.
Add to that the fact that cameras, rifles, and saxophones don't much get faked and it looks like I'm on to a loser with finding a "bargain" divers watch!

So, anyone care to offer any advice or is it simply down to hundreds of hours of reading up on what's what?

[DJMC]

klmhcp said:

All advice is subjective in this game.

Mine, for what it's worth, is that every penny you'll spend under the price of the Sub, that you really want whether you realise it or not yet, is a wasted penny. I've been there and only calmed down once the sub was obtained.

In other words, don't fk about.

Yes, that's what's stopped me buying anything so far, including the CH Ward C60 Trident 300 which mysteriously reduced in price after I'd left it in my "basket" overnight and received an email from them to remind me the next day...





It looks very nice, and the thread from a few days ago revealed others who rate them, but I'd never heard of the brand before then.

[DJMC]

OK, so Orient is a possible.

What's the difference between Mako, Deep and I've also come across Ray MkI.

I guess there's an "order of merit" as with Rolex.

Thanks for the info so far.

[DJMC]

DJMC said:

OK, so Orient is a possible.

What's the difference between Mako, Deep and I've also come across Ray MkI.

I guess there's an "order of merit" as with Rolex.

Thanks for the info so far.

As I said before, what's the hierarchy here? And the difference in mechanism etc?

I have my eye on a Ray Blue, but is the Mako or Deep better? What others are there in the Orient range???

[DJMC]

I've done some research on Orient. Owned by Seiko Epson.

Excellent video here explains the differences:

https://youtu.be/JoVzOY5Q46I

[DJMC]

cbmotorsport said:

Yup. I bought a Steinhart Ocean One Black to try and scratch the Sub itch. It didn't. If anything it made it worse as I liked the look of the watch, but always felt a bit false as it wasn't the real thing. 2 months after buying the Steinhart, I flipped it (at a loss) and bought a Sub.

Yes, I was having this same argument with myself in bed last night.

So I buy a £150 "homage" watch, and the Orients do look rather good, but when do I wear it and how do I feel? I have to leave my Rolex Datejust at home, and then wander around with an "inferior" watch on my arm? What's the point? How long would the infatuation with its look last?

Even if it was a Sub (or Fifty Fathoms!) I'm still worse off as I then have two genuine items of expensive jewellery which I can't wear at the same time yet cost twice as much as just one!

But then my wife has four Chanel handbags, so we'd both be in the "I just like to have tham and stroke them occasionally" camp.

Actually, it's very similar as she uses her GST bag every day, but the others are for "special occasions". Ah, but then her GST isn't a "fake" and didn't cost £150! Still, it's a good argument to use when she says "why do you want another watch" but she'd no doubt counter with "if you have to have another one, at least get a proper one, like I do with my bags." Hang on... have I just gone back to "Even if it was a Sub..." above?

Well, at least if I buy a wisely, as I have with my other hobbies, I can always get my money back on a cheapie when I come to my senses!

[DJMC]

BTW, do these look cheap for Seiko?: http://seiko-citizen-orient-direct.co.uk/seiko-div...

Are they legit?

[DJMC]

Trouble is... ever since someone here pointed out the Rolex Sub is a pretender to Blancpain, I'd perhaps forever be thinking the same about the Rolex!

But then from a show-off, ego, point of view very few people would know my Blancpain was the original model for the Rolex Sub.
Of course I'd still be smug in the knowledge I have a classic watch, as I am currently with my Datejust.

So what IS it that I want?
The look - yes.
An expensive "unknown" brand (Blancpain) - no.
An expensive well known brand (Rolex) - yes.
A cheap "unknown" brand (Orient) - yes.
Quality and reliability - yes.

So, if I don't want the original, the Blancpain, and I don't want to fork out right now for a Rolex, it's then just down to matching price point with brand/image.

I think a Casio MDV-106-1A at £45 brand new fails as it's both a "cheap" brand and quartz, albeit from a big manufacturer and likely to be reliable and well made:
http://www.greatwatches.co.uk/products/casio-mdv-1...

So the Orient Mako or Ray seems to still fit the bill. But will I ever wear it?
Why am I so prepossessed by this idea!?

[DJMC]

13m said:

Not at all. They aren't an attrctive watch. For some reason they seem to be most popular with gay men. According to a BP dealer I know at least.

He's a Shell dealer too. That's why he needs a diver's watch.

[DJMC]

GC8 said:

Blancpain invented the genre with the 50f, but I disagree that the original Submariner is an any way a copy. This is often-repeated, but I wouldn't regard it as knowledge or fact if I were you...

Yes, I do actually agree, as it's not very similar to the 50f. Same "type" but a different look.

Here's an Orient I spotted which IS very similar to the Sub: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201784632686?_trksid=p20...

It's the first model shown in this explanatory video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoVzOY5Q46I&fe...

BUT, despite saying it has the original bracelet, the stamp and logo are missing on the clasp (as shown at 0:47 in the video) plus the bezel is damaged. Otherwise a rarer watch than the current Ray II.

Talking of Ray vs Mako, I see the Ray has the nicer bezel and dots whereas the Mako has markers and numbers.
I prefer the Ray look, but of the Rays which is better... the discontinued Ray I with its date pusher, or the Ray II with crown features and a cleaner look? Just down to personal preference I guess?

Not that I'm still looking of course...

[DJMC]

Yes, I see that having two Rolex watches would be even worse than a Rolex and a cheapie as I'd always be leaving an expensive watch behind whereas the cheapie could be for when I wish to remain inconspicuous and so I wear my Rolex 99% of the time.

Any excuse for buying another "toy" eh?

I do admit to be in the "buy for the sake of buying" camp when it comes to boy's toys. Apart from my Porsche of course. That just serves a purpose.

...just thought... should I buy a cheap car for when I wear the cheap watch?

[DJMC]

I think I'm reaching the conclusion that for some the Sub epitomises the essence of Rolex, whilst for others the fluted DJ bezel does the same. That's why I bought mine after all!



So, I'm just temporarily smitten I think. I'll sleep on it a while longer...