Humour me - house on a budget in southern Herts

[Chris71]

A few weeks ago I did a sum to work out how much rent my fiancée and I had paid our landlord over the last few years and it was absolutely terrifying. We're living on a pretty much subsistence income in a modern house that needs no intervention from the landlord and yet over the last four years we've run up a big enough bill to buy a second hand Vanquish.

For about a minute I tried to contrive a way of spending it on one of those instead, but then I got to thinking about the rather more grown up option of buying a house.

Budget would be tight (by South East standards). I haven't spoken to any mortgage lenders yet, but I reckon we'd struggle to bring more than about £250,000 to the table.

For that we'd need to get two bedrooms and at least an end of terrace - preferably detached or semi-detached (my OH is a music teacher and a succession of beginner sax students would drive the neighbours potty in a flat or terrace...)

A friendly neighbourhood is a must and somewhere fairly green (as in vilagey) would be an advantage. Finally, it would need to have decent rail links to London (say, no more than 40 minutes up the line from one of the main stations).

Are we living in a fantasy land here or can it be done? Where would be your suggestion?

[Chris71]

Spindoctor said:

Places in north Herts like Letchworth, Hitchin and Baldock.

I had a quick chat with a friend who's facing a similar dilemma and those were his three recommendations.

Schools aren't a consideration currently, well not for kids anyway, might be a good source of employment for Mrs Chris71.

What's the A1 southbound like in the mornings? I'd be driving in to the outskirts of North London for the foreseeable future.

Hemel sounds quite affordable, but I've heard mixed reports (I guess it's just variable neighbourhoods really...) And based on a couple of trips to Stevenage I'd probably try to avoid that option. That might be unfair, though, I've only been to the outskirts.

Hmm. Maybe it's not such a long-shot after all:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 6th March 18:36

[Chris71]

had ham said:

Bishops Stortford is 35 mins out of Liverpool Street via the Stansted Express (stops at BS or Harlow only between the airport and LP St) and you'll get something decent in budget. It's a nice town, surrounded by some lovely villages - I'm a Much Hadham resident (I recall you have been through the villages on a drive)...

The local weekly papers have a property supplement, and they're out tomorrow, PM me with a work/home address and I'll happily send them to you. Otherwise google Bishops Stortford Observer and/or Hertford Mercury, likely they will have property pages....

Now there's an idea. We've got a few friends in Stortford, but I didn't realise there was a decent link into London. I'd sell my spleen to live near the B1004 too.

Will get back to you on the newspaper offer when things get serious. Just window shopping currently. We're getting married in a few months and then the house hunting proper shall commence.

Justin Cyder said:

I feel your pain when I think my parents bought their four bedroom semi for £27k in 1979. We've built a nightmare for people trying to kick on these days.

Tell me about it. Even at this level we're going to be relying on a substantial parental contribution. It's a ridiculous state of affairs when two full time professionals can't afford a starter home.

Currently two thirds of our combined income goes into rent and basic bills before we've even bought food or petrol let alone anything more frivolous. That's never good, but I'd feel a lot happier if it was at least going towards a house that we owned. Currently it's flowing straight into the landlord's bank account.

(Rant over... )

[Chris71]

Zippee said:

How about Stansted? 1 stop up from B/S and a nice town.

Worth a look. Quite villagey, I believe?

[Chris71]

AceOfHearts said:

I am in Biggleswade and it is a surprisingly quick journey into London (especially by train - about 35 minutes to Kings Cross). I know its not Hertfordshire, but the reason i moved up this way is you can get a lot more for your money, and is a lot nicer than where i used to live (near Hoddesdon)

Not a bad call. Might be getting a little far for commuting by car, but it's certainly a nice area.

On a random note, I ended up going to a gig in Bishops Stortford last night. Seemed like quite a good balance of a more chilled out atmosphere than North London but still a reasonable amount of life.

[Chris71]

MrDecadent said:

Potters Bar? I live here and found it very reasonable compared to North London, plus the commute isnt as bad into work each day.

Certainly wouldn't rule it out. We're on the Botany Bay/Potters Bar side of Enfield currently so know it well - and it would be very handy for work, both for me and the future Mrs Chris71 - but didn't think we'd be able to get something decent in budget.

Our absolute top whack would be about 250k, which seems to go quite a lot further if you're a few miles out. Plus places like Hitchin and Bishops Stortford seem to have a slightly more chilled out feel.

Still, good train links and the B158 on the doorstep...

[Chris71]

MrDecadent said:

However if an hour in the car is not a problem South Bedfordshire could be your answer. £250k gets you decent houses - Shefford, Clifton, Henlow - i.e along the A1 corridor. I'm looking at these sorts of areas for my next move as the train journey to Kings cross is only 40-50 mins and house prices are much more reasonable.

Theoretically doable for me, but the OH doesn't have a car and works in London quite frequently, so we really need a rail link. Shame in a way, because I can imagine proximity a mainline station bumps the prices up a bit too.

I've been up and down the A1 this weekend and I reckon Baldock is getting a little bit far for a daily commute by road. That said, Hitchin is probably the favourite at the moment as we have several friends moving in that direction and it seems to have quite a good vibe.

[Chris71]

Kateg28 said:

Stevenage is cheap but there is a reason for that.

Mrs Chris71 played a dep gig in Stevenage a few weeks back. I've never been so glad to get out of a pub in my life. It made strolling through Tottenham at 1am feel soothing.

[Chris71]

Justin Cyder said:

Edward the confessor anyone?!!

Can't remember the name of this one. It was a newly re-opened pub on a rather grim housing estate - only time I've seen the skinheads at a two-tone gig looking concerned.

[Chris71]

kingstondc5 said:

How old is Chris? If its over 25 - go to Hertford.

If under - Hitchin

For night life that is

St.A used to have a good mix but now all the "under 25's" are invading the "over 25" places and making me look like a dirty perv

God I feel old when you ask that. I'm 30 in a few weeks.

Told there's quite a good music scene there?

boolay said:

Not the Twin Foxes?

Rings a bell, yeah.

[Chris71]

red997 said:

I'm paying more in rent for a 3 bed semi with no parking than I did for the mortgage on a large 4 bed new barn conversion with double garage, workshop and land in the north Cotswolds!!

Tell me about it. I was on the verge of moving to north Oxfordshire recently and for the price of our current flat (not that we own it, but hypothetically...) we could have got a four bedroom detached house in a nice area.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that the South East only really works if you're well within London or well outside it. There's a band from about Finsbury Park to Hertford where you have to put up with all the crap that comes with a city and prices to match.

For what it's worth, the OH did a gig in Sawbridgeworth a few weeks ago. That looked quite nice in a quiet, mature kind of a way.

From what I've heard I think Hitchin will be our first port of call when the house hunting really gets underway later in the summer.

Can only guess where's worth looking at further west (around Kings Langley). Maybe Tring? I know someone who lives there and commutes into central London without too much hassle. St Albans is quite nice too, I believe, but I have suspicion it could be rather pricey.

[Chris71]

Oh fk.

Found out today the landlord wants his house back in two months. I realise this probably isn't enough time to bring the house buying plan forward, but I'm going to look into it.

If anyone finds themselves bored at work, suggestions are welcome! Up to £250k, no further out than Baldock - preferably more like Welwyn or Hertford type area. Nice area within a mile of a station with direct services to London.

[Chris71]

I know someone mentioned them briefly before, but what are Hoddesdon and Broxbourne like?

Currently all the houses that meet our criteria appear to be in Letchworth Garden City.

Also ... I drove through Welwyn the other day. At least I think I did. Not entirely sure if Welwyn Garden City is a separate entity. From the road it appeared the town centre consisted mostly of a giant car park with a sort of underpass beneath it! Are there nicer bits I missed or should I just cross it off the list? Did a couple of circuits looking for the nice bits, but never found any!

Hitchin, Letchworth, Baldock, Hertford and Ware, on the other hand, all appeared to have a very similar feel to each other. And all looked pretty nice. That said, someone said there are a lot of rough areas around Hertford? Can't say I've seen any yet.

[Chris71]

We viewed a pair of houses in Baldock today and a whole load in Letchworth - including one we may well put an offer in for.

It's tricky. I found Baldock town centre far more charismatic than Letchworth, which is smart(ish) but rather bland. Being a former Quaker town it has a dire shortage of pubs and restaurants, although there does seem to be a reasonable arts scene. That said, the situation is arguably reversed in the outlying areas where we could actually afford to buy. Leafy 'early garden city' places come into range in Letchworth, whereas so far we've only found indentikit modern developments on the outskirts of Baldock.

The houses themselves were an order of magnitude nicer for the same money in Letchworth, on the whole. The only exception was this 17th century cottage right opposite the big Tesco in Baldock (featured on the first page of this thread). It's just stunning inside - photos don't do it justice - but probably not realistic for our needs: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Impressed with the overall standard, though. We didn't really find a bad house or a bad neighbourhood in either town. If only we could transplant Baldock town centre into the Letchworth suburbs...

[Chris71]

nellyleelephant said:

As someone who lives close by and drives through Baldock to work in Letchworth, I'd choose Baldock out of the two (no offence to anyone!)

It feels a friendlier, nicer place to me......I'd still recommend a look at Ashwell.....

I agree entirely, but initial findings suggest we'd struggle to get the sort of house we'd like in Baldock. Budget is relatively tight and we now think we might need three beds rather than two.

Does Ashwell have a mainline rail station? My OH needs decent links to London (and Cuffley of all places).

[Chris71]

MrDecadent said:

I once made the mistake of buying a 3 bedder over a 2 bedder when my budget was tight. I bought an ex council 3 bedder on the West side of WGC (for £240k coincidentally, in 2008 it's also just sold right now on right move advertised at £260k...) and had neighbours from hell. I concluded from this that my budget stretched only so far for crappy bits of nice ares for 3 bedders where as I could have got a decent 2 bedder and perhaps extended into the loft at a later date if I needed the space.

Oh, don't worry, I've been there before - I rented in a couple of rough areas as a student and have no intention of repeating the experience. My main priority is a pleasant, harmonious area. If we compromised for an extra bedroom it's more likely to be losing the garage or accepting somewhere that needs a little bit of cosmetic work.

Didn't have much luck yesterday. We went to Hertford, which we know reasonably well already, and concluded we really liked it but we're going to struggle on our budget without making a lot of compromises. Currently I think all the options that have come our way are ex-council.

I quite liked Ware - it felt like a smaller, less expensive version of Hertford to me - but SWMBO was somewhat less keen. Plus the house we saw was in a new development that felt like a retirement village.

The focus seems to remain on Letchworth, Baldock and Hitchin. Again, my other half seems to really like Letchworth, but I far prefer the atmosphere of the other two. For the sake of a five minute cab ride and a lot more house for our money I could probably get over that, though.

Still haven't been back to Welwyn. Is there a nice area within walking distance of the station? To be honest we were so taken with the houses in Letchworth that Welwyn would have to offer a lot more character or a lot more life to sway us.

[Chris71]

Kateg28 said:

I grew up in Letchworth, lived in Ware for 13 years and have lived in Hertford for 3 years. My favourite by far is Hertford. Letchworth was very genteel but the lack of anything to do whatsoever got to me then and would get to me now.

I think Hertford is our favourite, but even the estate agent said we'd be lucky to get anything decent on our budget! It's not just snobbery about the areas, but also things like getting a garage for me or enough space on the estate for my fiancee's students to park.

Really keen to find out more about Baldock currently. It seems to have a similar feel to Hertford, but at prices closer to Letchworth. And it's got the A507 right next to it.

[Chris71]

Silent1 said:

What do you see in baldock, I can't think of a nice end of baldock especially when compared the the decent parts of letchworth

It's the town centre. Smart as Letchworth is, I find it very dull and modern (there again, growing up in the arse end of nowhere, anywhere built after about 1700 feels modern to me...) Plus there don't seem to be many pubs or restaurants within walking distance.

Baldock has a greater sense of history and seems to have more opportunities to socialise. This is purely my own opinion based on a couple of visits, but Letchworth strikes me as the sort of place you'd go if already had kids.

Anyway, we did a load more this afternoon and there are now three we're considering putting an offer in for. In a nutshell:

1) Letchworth - beautiful house with garage and the works, but town centre lacks atmosphere IMHO and this is quite a trek to the town centre. Also, obviously, a substantial distance from North London (where I currently work). Just out of budget, but close enough for an offer.
2) Baldock - smaller house (but big enough), quite smart and ready for quick sale, no garage, smaller garden, decent access to my favourite town centre of the three and the station. Still awkward for London. Comfortably in budget.
3) Hoddesdon - nice Victorian house, huge garden, massive garage, much closer to London and a matter of yards from Rye House train station but a much less salubrious area. Just in budget.

Again, we're split. My other half doesn't seem to mind Hoddesdon, but I just find it souless and a bit less friendly. On paper the third house ticks all our boxes and then some, however. The two or three car garage is particularly epic. I don't quite understand why I don't love it - sort of feel like I should.

In contrast, the middle one in Baldock requires the most sacrifices, but they're on the points I'm happiest to concede - garage, proximity to London etc. It's my favourite location, although it is within earshot of a busy main road.

The Letchworth one really took us back at first. It's without doubt the nicest house in the nicest condition and the immediate area is very pleasant. You're just surrounded by miles of suburbia in either direction, though. And when you do finally reach civilisation it seems to be wall-to-wall charity shops.

They're all good in very different ways.

[Chris71]

Spindoctor said:

Letchworth, Baldock & Hitchin town centres all have their good and bad bits but they're so close to each other that if you live in Letchworth (its the middle one) you can get to the others easily if you want.

All three are very close, true. My thinking is that the amenities you have in Letchworth are the sort of thing you'd happily drive to - sports centres, cinema etc. Whereas Baldock has the sort of thing you might want to walk to in the evening. By which I mean the pub.

[Chris71]

Perik Omo said:

Two good pubs in Willian Village which is a five minute walk from the Letchworth Lordship and Manor Park estates.

The place we're looking at currently is on the north west side of Letchworth. Any good?

I am swaying back towards Letchworth a little. Around there I could afford a house with a garage - having to drink lemonade at the pub would be less of an issue if I could drive the TVR there (rather than sell it due to lack of space!)