Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
Hi chaps.
I've got a hankering for an old, wooden (has to be wooden) sports boat/powerboat, sort of Riva style, but ideally British. Nothing too big, just a day boat for pottering around the Solent. 20-25' or thereabouts. Has to be 20s/30s ish. Don't mind getting my hands dirty.
I'm thinking, buy a shed with reasonable or good woodwork. Strip (boat, not me). Replace dirty wood. Flat off. Fair. Varnish (or exoxy coat?). Fit modern engine. Nice new interior in period style.
How hard can it be?
Basically, I want something like a Hacker, but ideally of British origin. I want to see it come together with my own eyes. I want something like this to be proud of. Am I totally mad?
I've got a hankering for an old, wooden (has to be wooden) sports boat/powerboat, sort of Riva style, but ideally British. Nothing too big, just a day boat for pottering around the Solent. 20-25' or thereabouts. Has to be 20s/30s ish. Don't mind getting my hands dirty.
I'm thinking, buy a shed with reasonable or good woodwork. Strip (boat, not me). Replace dirty wood. Flat off. Fair. Varnish (or exoxy coat?). Fit modern engine. Nice new interior in period style.
How hard can it be?
Basically, I want something like a Hacker, but ideally of British origin. I want to see it come together with my own eyes. I want something like this to be proud of. Am I totally mad?
Ok, so the end game isn't mad, but getting there is. As I thought.
I actually looked at some of these plans a couple of years ago and one of them really caught my eye. But the build diary I checked out put me off....
http://home.metrocast.net/~bcheckerberry/billys_be...
The guy that did this has ten times the skill and patience I have.
I sort of have a thing about having an old one too, something with history and all the hassle that goes with it.
The idea of making stringers and strakes and other bits just isn't up my alley. Unless I could get plans with CNC drawings and just pass it on to somebody else to do the awkward cutting out for me. I could probably manage to make a boat in kit form, where the main parts are already roughly cut to size and it's just assembly and joinery.
But I'd still rather have a proper 30s one that was originally owned by some cad with an inheritance and a Bentley Blower.
I actually looked at some of these plans a couple of years ago and one of them really caught my eye. But the build diary I checked out put me off....
http://home.metrocast.net/~bcheckerberry/billys_be...
The guy that did this has ten times the skill and patience I have.
I sort of have a thing about having an old one too, something with history and all the hassle that goes with it.
The idea of making stringers and strakes and other bits just isn't up my alley. Unless I could get plans with CNC drawings and just pass it on to somebody else to do the awkward cutting out for me. I could probably manage to make a boat in kit form, where the main parts are already roughly cut to size and it's just assembly and joinery.
But I'd still rather have a proper 30s one that was originally owned by some cad with an inheritance and a Bentley Blower.
Simpo Two said:
Could you not start your own trail, ie one owned by a 2013 cad with an inheritance and a Maserati?
I'm short of the inheritance, caddishness and general smoking jacket demeanour. :-(Can't get a tow bar on the Lambo either, so I'd have to pull up to the slipway with the old Landcruiser, hardly stylish!
I'm coming around to the idea of building from scratch....
Most of the designs I'm looking at are from the US, where mahogany seems to be the wood of choice. That possibly isn't the easiest wood to get in this country though. What would you substitute at a better alternative?
It's mahogany frames, ply cold mold, mahogany strakes on top.
Actually, I'd prefer a lighter wood finish, more like an oak sort of colour.
Any ideas?
I've been researching plans, and apart from a bandsaw (cheap), I already have most of the stuff I would need....
Most of the designs I'm looking at are from the US, where mahogany seems to be the wood of choice. That possibly isn't the easiest wood to get in this country though. What would you substitute at a better alternative?
It's mahogany frames, ply cold mold, mahogany strakes on top.
Actually, I'd prefer a lighter wood finish, more like an oak sort of colour.
Any ideas?
I've been researching plans, and apart from a bandsaw (cheap), I already have most of the stuff I would need....
bluesatin said:
What a superb website!Lots of ideas there, I need to talk to some people about this....
Simpo Two said:
Good question. Where do the Americans get their mahogany from that we can't?
Teak is a classic boat-building material but that's probably restricted as well (though there seems to be plenty of garden furniture in it).
There's lots of oak about - and of course it built Britain's 'Wooden Walls' - so I can't see why that wouldn't work.
Their mahogany, I guess South America. For us, we get more Nordic, Russian and French woods, stuff like that, so teak is always going to be more expensive. I found that Robbins site quotes on Douglas Fir, which I seem to remember was on the alternatives list with the plan suppliers, so that could be a good start.Teak is a classic boat-building material but that's probably restricted as well (though there seems to be plenty of garden furniture in it).
There's lots of oak about - and of course it built Britain's 'Wooden Walls' - so I can't see why that wouldn't work.
Plans are about 300 bucks, so I need to work out if it's feasible before I start spending money!
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Maser,
You could always consider this and your Lambo in the most fabulous way possible
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
You git. I've now been looking for Lambo engines and the idea has stuck a bit.You could always consider this and your Lambo in the most fabulous way possible
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A nice Murci engine for sale in California, low mileage, all the bits, perfect....
Might need a re-design on the boat though!
Yeah, that was sort of a back of a fag packet calculation that was never going to be the final bill. Still, it sounded quite cheap (minus labour), right?
Mahogany. Hmm. I was sort of looking for a better alternative for planking, something that looks nice varnished? I guess teak looks ok on a deck, but I guess not so much on hull strakes. And bloody expensive.
If I could get away with something else for planking, a teak deck, and a load of clear coat, that would be perfect.
I'm about to push the buttons on plans....
Mahogany. Hmm. I was sort of looking for a better alternative for planking, something that looks nice varnished? I guess teak looks ok on a deck, but I guess not so much on hull strakes. And bloody expensive.
If I could get away with something else for planking, a teak deck, and a load of clear coat, that would be perfect.
I'm about to push the buttons on plans....
OneDs said:
Robbins has some ply faced teak with caulking pre-inlaid for the deck is considerably cheaper, strip plank it veneer it, clear glass and epoxy the hull in and out, several layers of varnish on the deck. Your own riva for 10% of the price
I spotted that on their website, thought it would be good for cabin soles too. If a little OTT. Would look nice though.Or teak veneer?
RichB said:
Fantastic! I built a balsa wood model of that very boat when I was about 10. It was about 3' long, the planes were in Meccano Magazine. The basic hull was for a racer called Brave Moppie then you could add a superstructure to various designs and I chose the Huntsman 
Brings back memories!
I made a 'Javelin' with a 10cc nitro engine. All good practice for what's coming up, I guess!Brings back memories!
I've prepped a bit of space in the workshop....
Checked out West Systems epoxy.
Checked out Cedar (thanks Mickrick!), which looks nice. BUT, there's SO much work to do in just making the frames and cold moulding, it'll be a long time before I have to think about planking/deck, so not a decision that would have to be made any time soon.
The plan is to make the frames from Douglas Fir. Cut out templates on thin MDF. Rough-cut the real frame on a bandsaw, then use a router (with a pattern bit) with the template to finish the frames off perfectly.
The plans I'm getting are 'full size', so no lofting required. But, I've thought of an easier way of doing this.... I have access to a large printer that will print directly on to vinyl. If I had PDF copies of the plans, I could print the frames on to clear vinyl, stick this to the timber, and cut around directly. Still using the template/router method, but a lot quicker than tracing. I'm pretty sure the supplier wouldn't let the plans loose in PDF format though, otherwise they'd be digitally traced and set up for CNC, an IP nightmare. So, I could scan the plans myself, but I only have an A4 scanner, not QUITE big enough.
Anyway, lots to be thinking about, looking forward to yet another winter project!
Checked out West Systems epoxy.
Checked out Cedar (thanks Mickrick!), which looks nice. BUT, there's SO much work to do in just making the frames and cold moulding, it'll be a long time before I have to think about planking/deck, so not a decision that would have to be made any time soon.
The plan is to make the frames from Douglas Fir. Cut out templates on thin MDF. Rough-cut the real frame on a bandsaw, then use a router (with a pattern bit) with the template to finish the frames off perfectly.
The plans I'm getting are 'full size', so no lofting required. But, I've thought of an easier way of doing this.... I have access to a large printer that will print directly on to vinyl. If I had PDF copies of the plans, I could print the frames on to clear vinyl, stick this to the timber, and cut around directly. Still using the template/router method, but a lot quicker than tracing. I'm pretty sure the supplier wouldn't let the plans loose in PDF format though, otherwise they'd be digitally traced and set up for CNC, an IP nightmare. So, I could scan the plans myself, but I only have an A4 scanner, not QUITE big enough.
Anyway, lots to be thinking about, looking forward to yet another winter project!
mickrick said:
Looking forward to this!
Which plans are you considering?
23' barrel-back 30s style runabout. 8 seats, inboard engine.Which plans are you considering?
They say mahogany and ply, but I'm thinking something more accessible in the UK for the frames (Douglas Fir?), and possibly cedar or mahogany for the planking and deck.
http://www.boatdesigns.com/Belle-Isle/products/724...
About to push the button on the plans tonight....
Looking for a local supplier of the timber too. It's all well and good having the best deal or the best supplier, but that's no good if they're the other end of the country. Luckily, I'm in the best part of the world for boaty bits so this shouldn't be a problem. Planning to price up the frames and stringers and bits over the next few days and get them on order, along with a bandsaw and pattern router bit. Might look at a router table too, that looks like a good, easy way of making frames from a pattern piece.
Looking forward to this now!
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
PH Fail:
ENGINE !!!!
or ENGINES !!!!!
ENGINE !!!!
or ENGINES !!!!!
So, I should just cut out a bit of ply, stick a couple of barrels either side with some super-strong-sticky-glue and mount a V12 to the middle?
Whatever engine eventually goes in, it'll be a nice one for sure. I'm not going to spend 600 hours making a boat and then put a sewing machine motor in it.
RichB said:
Indeed, I was looking at this design last night and noticed it takes a V6/V8 engine. What are you intending to put in it? 
Realistically, unless something magnificent comes up, it'll be a 350 or 377 MAG or similar. That's a 300 / 320 HP V8, 5.7 / 6.2L. Something like that, around 6L V8 300-ish ponies.Has to be petrol I think, no point saving money building one myself and then going for a noisy bus engine.
mickrick said:
If the plans give you table of offsets lofting is easy. You only need to do half the frame, then flip it for the other half.
Just lay the paper on your board, and trace it through by knocking the point of a nail through your lofting line.
Are you laminating the frames? If so you don´t need to cut the board, just screw blocks on to clamp your laminates to.
Use brown shiny parcel tape on your forms to stop epoxy sticking to them.
Plans are 'full size', so just need tracing and cutting.Just lay the paper on your board, and trace it through by knocking the point of a nail through your lofting line.
Are you laminating the frames? If so you don´t need to cut the board, just screw blocks on to clamp your laminates to.
Use brown shiny parcel tape on your forms to stop epoxy sticking to them.
The rest of that is only just starting to make sense, good call on the parcel tape, that tip will come in handy I'm sure!
OneDs said:
How are you planning to finish the hull?
Are you cold moulding mahogany/other Hardwood veneers over a ply covered stringered frame, then clear coating with epoxy/GRF?
engine wise a modern high powered petrol marine V6 would seem an obvious choice for weight, power, control, reliability and still provide an interesting sound track at an overall lower cost than an automotive V8 conversion.
Exactly that, douglas fir frame, covered with douglas fir ply and a mahogany veneer, then clear coated.Are you cold moulding mahogany/other Hardwood veneers over a ply covered stringered frame, then clear coating with epoxy/GRF?
engine wise a modern high powered petrol marine V6 would seem an obvious choice for weight, power, control, reliability and still provide an interesting sound track at an overall lower cost than an automotive V8 conversion.
I keep saying, engines are the least of my worries at the moment! I've put the feelers out for timber, waiting on a couple of quotes and availability.
Plans should be on the way this week, might take a week or two to arrive from the US.
I would guess I'll be making a start properly in about 2-3 weeks....
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