Aircraft down at Blackbushe?
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Some video footage on the Get Hampshire (Farnborough/Fleet/Camberley News and Mail) website.
It certainly looks like one of the Blackbushe based biz jets. You can see the tail fin in one of the video. The aircraft is the right way up.
http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/blackbushe-airp...
Unconfirmed reports on Twitter say it was a "Phenom".It certainly looks like one of the Blackbushe based biz jets. You can see the tail fin in one of the video. The aircraft is the right way up.
http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/blackbushe-airp...
I don't really know biz jets.
eharding said:
Eric Mc said:
Crashed on take off. Over ran the runway - ran through the the perimeter fence - and "cartwheeled" or "spun" into some of the cars parked at British Car Auctions.
It sounds like it might be a business jet of some sort.
Eye-witness on the Flyer forum states an over-run on landing. Friend flying out of White Waltham earlier was talking to the 'Bushe, saw the smoke and was then told the airfield was closed :-(It sounds like it might be a business jet of some sort.
converted lurker said:
I have expressed two opinions with reasons why I hold them. One is the Gnat accident was always likely with that aircraft and the level of risk was on the too-high side. Two is that the Phenom crash was gash flying to a too short runway.
A theory being considered on PPRUNE was that the pilot suffered a medical episode and, would ordinarily have gone around, but couldn't.Surprised that the runway was too short for the Phenom, I assumed it was based there due the close proximity of the victims home address?
Dr Jekyll said:
There are eye witnesses who reckon the Phenom touched down around 2/3 of the way down the runway at a vastly excessive speed. If so a few hundred metres of runway length are neither here nor there.
Which is why I tend to think that there could be something in the "taken ill" theory, under normal circumstances, he could have gone around, but if he was having some kind of medical episode, a) he would want to get down as quickly as possible, and b) would not be thinking rationally. el stovey said:
converted lurker said:
This defence of a Banker who jacked in his RAF 'career' at the early part of the Hawk course to make millions in the City so he could afford to play around at weekends in a Gnat is puzzling.
I doubt you find it puzzling in the slightest. RIP.
converted lurker said:
onyx39 said:
I personally am glad that he chose to give up his career which allowed him to fly Gnats. Without this, I would not have seen them fly at Eastbourne last year.
RIP.
Really?!RIP.
I am sad the CAA didn't decline to allow the Gnat on the civil register. 'Kev' would still be a brilliant husband and father and able to enjoy his highly successful life to old age if they had.
PS he never had a career in the RAF as he left in training. He had a career in the City.
Perhaps the CAA should ground everything, just in case there is ever another aircraft accident??
Non
t up as you go along.
I've never flown a Phenom, but a wee bit of research shows that the LDR (Landing Distance Required) for a Phenom 300 at MLW (max landing weight) is 2621 ft at Sea level in ISA conditions (+15C, 1013.25mb).
Given that the a/c went into the car auction site, I'm guessing it was attempting to land on R/W 25. The LDA (Landing Disance Available) on that R/W is 3474 ft. I don't have the TDZE (Touchdown Zone Elevation) to hand but it's moot anyway since the field elevation is 324 ft. Now, I don't have access to a Phenom ODM (Operating Data Manual) but I would seriously doubt that the elevation of Blackbushe would eat up the spare 850 odd ft (and that's if the a/c was landing at MLW which is pretty bloody unlikely since the a/c had flown in from Milan).
So gash? No. Marginal R/W? Not really.
The point is that Performance A is bloody Performance A, you don't need to go around adding extra meningy feet of tarmac, it's already built in to the performance calculation.
king idiot.
Hmm, strange that given that the RAF did exactly that for 45 years with the Dominie. Not only that, but for an awful lot of that time it was operated in the LL environment. Oh, and into some short fields.
Or are you making a Cultural reference, given the way that you dismiss the pilot as 'Ahmed' ?
Now, if he was hot and high on the approach and didn't throw it away he's a bloody fool but until such time as the ADR and CVR are accessed you don't know that for certain. You say you have 'hard data' but you don't.
t up again. If you were a Military pilot you would, no doubt, have heard of PAS (Permanent Aircrew Spine), what in my day was termed 'Specialist Aircrew'. For the non RAF types, Aircrew who do 16 years service or get to age 38 (whichever comes later) and who have not been promoted to Sqn Ldr may get the option to come out of the 'Promotion Game' and concentrate solely upon flying until age 55.
So the idea that the RAF retires its pilots at age 40 is utter horlicks.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
converted lurker said:
The runways gash for Phenom scale ops yes. They should pay a little more and go up the road to Farnborough and pay TAG.
Oh dear, yet again CL you are making st up as you go along. I've never flown a Phenom, but a wee bit of research shows that the LDR (Landing Distance Required) for a Phenom 300 at MLW (max landing weight) is 2621 ft at Sea level in ISA conditions (+15C, 1013.25mb).
Given that the a/c went into the car auction site, I'm guessing it was attempting to land on R/W 25. The LDA (Landing Disance Available) on that R/W is 3474 ft. I don't have the TDZE (Touchdown Zone Elevation) to hand but it's moot anyway since the field elevation is 324 ft. Now, I don't have access to a Phenom ODM (Operating Data Manual) but I would seriously doubt that the elevation of Blackbushe would eat up the spare 850 odd ft (and that's if the a/c was landing at MLW which is pretty bloody unlikely since the a/c had flown in from Milan).
So gash? No. Marginal R/W? Not really.
The point is that Performance A is bloody Performance A, you don't need to go around adding extra meningy feet of tarmac, it's already built in to the performance calculation.
converted lurker said:
What happens when you're flying is that you can get very goal focussed.
Only if you are a fking idiot.converted lurker said:
That's why single pilot ops are dangerous in high performance aircraft. It's essentially a ten ton kinetic weapon guided by someone who is not making rational judgements. If there were two professional pilots on that flightdeck the other one would have been telling Ahmed to bloody well go around as they merrily sailed over the threshold following Ahmeds fairly gash circuit.
So you are saying that single pilot biz jet ops are inherently dangerous?Hmm, strange that given that the RAF did exactly that for 45 years with the Dominie. Not only that, but for an awful lot of that time it was operated in the LL environment. Oh, and into some short fields.
Or are you making a Cultural reference, given the way that you dismiss the pilot as 'Ahmed' ?
Now, if he was hot and high on the approach and didn't throw it away he's a bloody fool but until such time as the ADR and CVR are accessed you don't know that for certain. You say you have 'hard data' but you don't.
converted lurker said:
RAF fighter pilots are extensively medical screened then tested routinely in considerable depth and then retired by 40 from Ops. Some Jordanian guy in his mid 50's whose cousin is his AME flying who knows what flight rosters is - once again - a completely different thing.
There you go, making st up again. If you were a Military pilot you would, no doubt, have heard of PAS (Permanent Aircrew Spine), what in my day was termed 'Specialist Aircrew'. For the non RAF types, Aircrew who do 16 years service or get to age 38 (whichever comes later) and who have not been promoted to Sqn Ldr may get the option to come out of the 'Promotion Game' and concentrate solely upon flying until age 55.So the idea that the RAF retires its pilots at age 40 is utter horlicks.
converted lurker said:
And yes, anything larger than Beechcraft should be two pilot in my opinion.
As I said on the Gnat thread, when you start spouting made up crap sunshine, I stop believing anything you say. Personally I don't think your opinion is worth jack.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff