Mach Loop - Low Flying

[D4VE 3LL]

I thought I'd start a seperate thread for the Mach Loop. Been on another 3 day trip but heres some of my faves from the previous trips.
comments/Crit/Questions are most welcome.


































Cheers,

Dave

[D4VE 3LL]

Monday 12th April 2010 afternoon.

Harrier T12 (two seater)

















Will edit Tuesdays and post them up - busy day Typhoons/Tonkas/green Herc/Hawks

[D4VE 3LL]

Because I don't want them to get nabbed by people, if you want one at wallpaper size just say so

[D4VE 3LL]

coanda said:

Very nice images.....do you post on UKAR?

The low shutter speed herc in the first set of images is by far the best in my opinion.

I'm registered but it does seem to be a bit more base orientated. i'm more in it for the photography side of it than the serials etc. Might whack em up later

[D4VE 3LL]

thatone1967 said:

how much walking is involved getting to the place where you takes the shots... are we talking Mountain climbs to get there?

if you're reasonably fit about 20minutes. some people do two climbs a day. Some are steep but were talking about maybe a walking pole and boots and you're away.

[D4VE 3LL]

cs02rm0 said:

These are going to get me in a lot of trouble with the OH. Awesome pictures.

Any suggestions on a lens (<£1000) to put on the front of a D90 that would get me anywhere remotely near taking shots like this? Sigma 150-500mm maybe?

I use a Nikon D80 and the nikkor 70-300mm VR. Some people do use Bigmas. Don't what the quality is like at 500mm though. but both are sub 1K. With money I'd like a D300 and 300mm f/4 or f/2.8.

[D4VE 3LL]

Corris and Cad West 13/4/2010

QinetiQ AlphaJet



View from Corris



Cad West

GR4



Herc







Typhoon













GR4





This was pass of the century as we were walking dwon Cad. Didn't follow the road, cut across the hill saw us all. 50ft above our heads, decimating the place, shot over Cadair Idris over Dolgellau, back round with the back seater holding up a piece of paper saying "Hi" awesome!



Cheers for looking.

Dave

p.s

Knight, I will e-mail you later...

[D4VE 3LL]

Tonemapped Typhoon

[D4VE 3LL]

Yeah I know him - great work, just a dhead though. Yeah I know most of the guys on there. Was booted off lowfly with tons of other people - won't go into it for the benefit of others. on www.fox2.co.uk now (you have to type it in for some reason PH wont link) Great site.

[D4VE 3LL]

smack said:

Love your Herc photos. I have to make my way up to North Wales one day to see and photo that. They mainly operate on weekdays right?

Only weekdays

[D4VE 3LL]

fasterthanyou said:

I don't know alot about planes but your pictures have definitely sucked me. Whats the story with were they were taken? It is a training route or close to a base?

Its closest base is RAF Valley on Anglesey about 50miles away so traffic is mainly made up of Hawks. But recently the frontlines have come out to play like Tornados/Typhoons/ Harriers/Hercules. The whole of the UK is divided up into LFAs (Low Flying Areas) Wales being LFA7 and these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles roundtrip or 3mins in a jet. There just the valleys favoured by the aircrew and they're free to go where they want. It gets its name mach from the local town of Machynllyth, hence Mach Loop simples.

[D4VE 3LL]

Summertime said:

fasterthanyou said:

I don't know alot about planes but your pictures have definitely sucked me. Whats the story with were they were taken? It is a training route or close to a base?

Google mach loop simple as that
I will be there end of june for a weekend if you want to meet up dave ?

Can do mid June?? But they DON'T fly on weekends.

[D4VE 3LL]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

D4VE 3LL said:

these valleys create a "loop" which is about 30miles round trip or 3mins in a jet.

Hardly.

If you think about that statement, then the a/c would be doing 10 miles a minute, ie 600kts. Knocking on the door of dropping a 'boom' every time they turned! Given how 'sensitive' low flying is (and always has been) in the UK, the 'fallout' from that would be political suicide for the RAF.

Unless things have changed with the intro of the Typhoon, then the max anyone can fly at at low level is 450kts which gives a 'window' for timing changes when you are flying at 420kts - 420kts being 7 miles a minute, the speed FJs fly at at low level (because it's an easy number to work with). Indeed a Hawk would be hard pressed to even make 600kts at low level - most (clean wing) Hawks won't go past 580kts, with the weaponeer a/c being significantly slower.

There was a proviso within the Low Flying Handbook for the US F111s to be able to fly at 480kts, but only on IP to Target runs (because that was their ideal target run in speed). Whether this has been extended to the F15E Strike Eagles or the Typhoon, I don't know.

Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 18th April 21:12

Well its 30 road miles, jets don't take the exact road layout as it gets to tight and twisty, so over shoot a few miles but its definately 3 minutes for a Hawk/Typhoon/F15E/GR4/F3/AlphaJet

[D4VE 3LL]

as they say, rules are there to be broken.... i'm not going to state which but i've seen a fair few.

[D4VE 3LL]

Afterburners low level - not allowed
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed

The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bullst" everything I say.

[D4VE 3LL]

eccles said:

D4VE 3LL said:

Afterburners low level - not allowed
less than 250ft MSD - not allowed
more than 3 "loops" - not allowed
flying directly at photographers/groups of people - not allowed

The majority of people in the hobby have contacts who are pilots in the RAF who do this on a daily basis and I appreciate that your were in the RAF. just saying it how it is. no need to "Bullst" everything I say.

I've been through mid Wales in the back of a Tonka with 90' indicated on the rad alt, we also buzzed the hippy tee pee colony at a very low level, buzzed my parents house and sat it on it's arse with the reheat on...... all this was back in 1990, so it's nothing new at all.

exactly Nothing new, I do envy you though! Tonka, Wales, Reheat.... :P

[D4VE 3LL]

Summertime said:

Dave i can do a Wednesday Thursday Friday in June or July if you want to meet up at Mach loop

Yeah sure

[D4VE 3LL]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

May I ask how many flying hours, and specifically, low flying hours D4VE 3 LL and 3LLB1G GK have? And why you think YOU are experts’?

Have either of you actually flown at low level? EVER?

Have either of you actually OPERATED at low level?

EVER?

No of course you haven’t.

Yet you KNOW the rules and you know better than those who do it.!

Now, it’s a while since I flew the M. Valley, I know for a fact we didn’t do it at 600 kts. THERERFORE it can’t be 30 miles round trip in 3 minutes.

In fact it’s a case of fly at 420 kts and pulling out and go round again’

Now

B1G GK said:

If Ginetta does believe me or Dave, then why dont she go and stand at Cad with a stopwatch for a day

Because I live too far away and I am not a ‘spotter’ – sorry I have better things to do with my day.

Secondly, being ex Aircrew I can not stand there and watch people (possibly my ex students) hooning down valleys – once you have been Military Aircrew, then just like racing, you NEVER really leave!

Getting a bit bored of the slagging you do in these threads, you did it to droptheclutch's thread a while ago. I'm not a spotter, merely a tog who enjoys the thrill of watching the jets in the valleys and wanted to share some of the half decent photos I have and if people ask for information I'll do my best to tell them. Well it could be a case of 27 or 28 miles and 3 minutes and 10 seconds, still about the same time/distance. Never said I was an expert, just stated what I'd seen, also never siad I'd operated at low level.

Enjoy the photos if you want but keep the bhing to yourself, please.

[D4VE 3LL]

I was merely stating what I'd seen, sorry if it got taken the wrong way. I to would like to hear what its like to go through at low level from somebody whos done it, it just seems that so many threads on PH end up in arguements. Once again sorry, lets get it back on track

[D4VE 3LL]

Well some pics, hopefully the end of the bickering... sorry, been in a st mood last few days.

a rotated one from a few weeks ago.



Went to do some landscape stuff and went up fro an hour to see what I could get, GR9. Only frontliner of the day and last movement of the day.





Today has been very busy...

Special scheme 100SQN hawk round, Hercs, lots of valley hawks, couple of Tornado GR4s, F15s twice, Special scheme Harrier.