Coffee machines ?

[jackal]

I have a coffee every morning. I don't know anything about coffee. I just have some Nescafe instant stuff. It's not particularly nice but I don't mind it and its become a bit of a ritual. I'd prefer something better but don't think I want to go to the hassle of beans and a 300 quids worth of Gaggia etc..

So do I have any options ? A filter coffee maker would presumably just be a waste for 1 cup for 1 person every day ? I don't think I like filter coffee either. Whenever I've had it it tastes mettalic to me and nothing like a decent Late or capucino from one of the cafes like Costa Coffee. How about those Krups Dolce Gusto thingys ? Are they worth looking at ? Ot maybe there is some other intermediate device that will make me a better mug than the standard instant crud ?

[jackal]

right just been looking into it

love the look of the Gaggia classics but it seems clear that:


1. good coffee means freshly ground beans

2. so that means getting a grinder as well ... i.e. another £150 quid and using up yet more kitchen space therefore a bean to cup machine is a far better setup and has the benefit of being quicker/less fiddly and self cleaning with far lower maintenance

3. gaggia titanium seems to have lots and lots of reliability issues (the k series of the coffee world !) and it seems that the delonghi Magnifica does everything and more, a lot better. It also does the milk very very simply and automatically as well.

Edited by jackal on Friday 18th December 01:51

[jackal]

ok, no need to be violent !


i get you on the manual grinder thing

but i don't want to go into this and then not bother after 2 or 3 days

99% of everyone i speak to has a coffee machine in their cupboard that only got used for one week and then they couldn't be arsed anymore... cutting out stages like manual grinding is a way to safegaurd against this

I'll never be that into the process.. I want to just hit a button and then drink the Mofo

so that means easy grinding or preferably bean to cup all in one go

[jackal]

Pothole said:

jackal said:

99% of everyone i speak to has a coffee machine in their cupboard that only got used for one week and then they couldn't be arsed anymore...

won't any of them lend you one?

funnily enough i did ask someone today but it was a present (as they often are) so they didnt want to give it away, sell it or lend it

[jackal]

yep, there are folk out there that kill people for fun ... takes all sorts

[jackal]

Mobile Chicane said:

Another vote for Nespresso from me. The advantages being:

- the coffee tastes and smells great (almost everyone who tries it is converted)
- it's very quick and easy to make
- there's nothing to clean
- sealed capsules mean that you can have lots of different blends on the go without the danger of coffee going stale: short, long, decaff etc

can it do latte & cappucino ?

[jackal]

right

i think a tenative exploratory period is the best idea

i'm going to pick up a cheap Gaggia classic on ebay (they seem to be a fair bit more reliable than nother gaggia models if amazon reviews are anything to go by)

I will get a cheap grinder, maybe the emanual one listed up above and then see how i get on with it all and how much faff it is

if it works well and i'm using it everyday (i imgaine i will cos i drink coffee every morning) then i'll maybe re-ebay it and go for an expensive bean to cup number

[jackal]

Lefty Two Drams said:

Any decent coffee seller will grind the beans for you, I really wouldn't worry too much about that...

thanks, aren't they best just freshly ground though ?


will on of those hand grinders be ok ?

[jackal]

cheddar said:

STOP!!!!
Save yerself a few hundy and get a jar of instant Moccona Intense and see what you think.

You're obviously no expert, you've been throwing down cheap Nescaff for donkeys. Maybe you don't need to get into the whole shiny coffee machine aggro.

Go spend 2 quid and see for yourself.....

Just my 2 quids worth.........

I worked in soho for 10 years though, Bar Italia, Flat Whites, Milk Bar etc. ... so whilst I might not know the names and the science behind it all, I appreciate a decent cup

[jackal]

Just bought a Gaggia classic chaps and a Krups grinder.
We have a nice coffee shop in teddington as well that sells all sorts of beans.

I happened to have a feel of a few machines in John lewis the other day as well.
I was stunned just how plastiky the Delonghi items are.
The Classic however is a big old heavy retro thing and just up my street. Really solid and pleasurable to use.

Looking forward to brewing my first cup. If anyone has any bean recommendations then please pass them on.

[jackal]

Mr Will said:

jackal said:

If anyone has any bean recommendations then please pass them on.

The girl in the Teddington coffee shop will sell you 125g samples of the different beans, as well as advising you which one to try next based on the ones you had last time.

It's where I've started buying my coffee from and I'm impressed so far!

thanks will

she recommended me some ethiopian to start so i'm trying that first

presumably this is their own roasted stuff ?

[jackal]

Mr Will said:

jackal said:

thanks will

she recommended me some ethiopian to start so i'm trying that first

presumably this is their own roasted stuff ?

I've tried the Ethiopian and Columbian single origin beans and I'm currently on a Brazilian blend. I think the Columbian just edges it for me at the moment, it starts a little more gently than the Ethiopian then build in the mouth, although it does have a slightly bitter finish which might not suit everyone (or every coffee machine!)

The large mechanical contraption in the corner of the shop is the roasting machine where they roast all the beans they sell. It means that whatever you choose they should never have been roasted more than about a week ago.

How are you finding the coffee?

Thanks i will earmark those then.

I am still working it all out ....but getting there.

I am now making doubles all the time using a double dose of coffee, almost to the top of the double filter then tamped. 2oz shot plus 2oz of milk which makes for a very nice strong latte. I put a small bit of froth over the top but its not really a cappucino.

The extraction is taking too long though even with a lighter tamp. I think I need to grind coarser which is odd because my Krups grinder is on the middle setting so that means for half the settings the grind is too fine for an espresso machine. But then that is consistent with some reviews I read of it on amazon which say it either grinds too coarse or too fine.

My Gaggia Classic i got on ebay wasn't the amazingly looked after machine I was expecting. I took the shower screen off and half its holes were blocked and it was completely coated in encrusted coffee on its topside (took and age to clean with a fine needle). I cleaned the metal disc above it as well but cannot remove this as it must be completely glued onto the group with calcification. The steam wand also leaks too much water and takes an age to purge. I tried to remove the steam valve and clean the O ring but that valve is also glued on. I also find the steam wand plastic frother pretty annoying and its hard to get the froth hot as well as the milk and it gives too much froth and zero control.

So I am just going to buy a new Gaggia classic and return this one to the ebayer. I'll also fit the Rancillo wand attachment which is just a straight pipe and will allow me to decide when i want froth and how much ! Having opened the thing up I now know I can fix and maintain it and the reliability of the bean to cup machines worries me so the Classic is definitely for me. I like the more manual nature of it as well and the internet seems to suggest that its one of the most reliable units out there.

Overall, I'm pleased and its an awful lot of fun. I like understanding and having an appreciation of the technique. The 2 cups I had this morning tasted fantastic... easily as good as my local Costa/Nero.

[jackal]

over the last week I also found some fancy Moka pot that was given to me 10 years ago as a wedidng present by an Italian family that I know. Never used it but I gave it a whirl. Have to say that the results weren't very close to what I am now getting from the gaggia. It was pretty easy and quick to use though I found.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 26th December 11:02

[jackal]

SwanJack said:

I have a Krups grinder and a Gaggia Classic too. The grind setting is just to the finer side of the midway setting as well. I find that you have to adjust the grind and tamping pressure for every variety of bean. It takes a few extractions to find the right combination. What is odd though is that the Costa Coffee ready ground espresso coffee (sold in the supermarket and surpasses ground Illy by a mile IMO) seems very finely ground and needs quite a hefty tamp to get a good Crema.

very interesting & thanks for that

maybe the ground coffee has different levels of permeability ???




I am considering changing for a Iberital MC2.

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-a...

Seems to be very highly rated, as good as the Rocky or MDF, and a lot more convenient grinding straight into the portafilter. I really don't like having to remove the box from the Krups then take the lid off the spoon the coffee into the basket. All a bit of a faff.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 26th December 11:53

[jackal]

cramorra said:

jackal said:

over the last week I also found some fancy Moka pot that was given to me 10 years ago as a wedidng present by an Italian family that I know. Never used it but I gave it a whirl. Have to say that the results weren't very close to what I am now getting from the gaggia. It was pretty easy and quick to use though I found.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 26th December 11:02

Sounds like your gaggia needs a proper descale (get some pulycaffe or similar) use acc to instructions and wooah also a proper backflush may help with the shower gaskets are a few p on the internet
You will have to do this even if you buy new so why not fix the one you have unless you were ripped off in the bay and want your money back for that reason...

Thanks, yes i have some pulycaffe on order. To be honest on ebay i paid quite a lot. I can get a new one for 250 quid delivered. For the knowledge that the machine is EXACTLY as it should be i'd rather pay the extra.

[jackal]

Piglet said:

jackal said:

cramorra said:

jackal said:

over the last week I also found some fancy Moka pot that was given to me 10 years ago as a wedidng present by an Italian family that I know. Never used it but I gave it a whirl. Have to say that the results weren't very close to what I am now getting from the gaggia. It was pretty easy and quick to use though I found.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 26th December 11:02

Sounds like your gaggia needs a proper descale (get some pulycaffe or similar) use acc to instructions and wooah also a proper backflush may help with the shower gaskets are a few p on the internet
You will have to do this even if you buy new so why not fix the one you have unless you were ripped off in the bay and want your money back for that reason...

Thanks, yes i have some pulycaffe on order. To be honest on ebay i paid quite a lot. I can get a new one for 250 quid delivered. For the knowledge that the machine is EXACTLY as it should be i'd rather pay the extra.

You might have been better off thinking about that before you bought the one on ebay! Bit late to change your mind now unless it really was mis-sold to you....

Errrrrr, it's not too late for anything. My comment about the price was an add on to the discussion here but has nothing to do with the validity of the actual transaction. The machine was misrepresented in its description. Quite why I'm explaining this to you I don't know !

[jackal]

@piglet, no probs... for the money I paid it would have been fine if it was in the condition described but it's not even been descaled or cleaned possibly since it was first bought !

@sleepenvy, thanks for that. I will give them a tinkle.

[jackal]

Colonial said:

But most home coffee machines are abysmal, burn the beans

This seems to be true.

Now the honeymoon is over i'm finding the gaggia classic to be very compromised and hit or miss.

Firstly i've learnt that the grinder is everything and you should put 70% of your budget here.

After that, really there is two low end machines, the Classic or the Rancillo silvia but both need nerdy mods, finicky temp surfing techniques etc.. to get half decent and consistent results. What you really need is a heat exchanger machine with PID or better still a dual boiler. Espresso machines in coffee shops are big and expensive for a reason and to be fair you can't just make a small budget one for home use and charge people 300 quid.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 2nd January 09:48

[jackal]

cramorra said:

jackal said:

Colonial said:

But most home coffee machines are abysmal, burn the beans

This seems to be true.

Now the honeymoon is over i'm finding the gaggia classic to be very compromised and hit or miss.

Firstly i've learnt that the grinder is everything and you should put 70% of your budget here.

After that, really there is two low end machines, the Classic or the Rancillo silvia but both need nerdy mods, finicky temp surfing techniques etc.. to get half decent and consistent results. What you really need is a heat exchanger machine with PID or better still a dual boiler. Espresso machines in coffee shops are big and expensive for a reason and to be fair you can't just make a small budget one for home use and charge people 300 quid.

Edited by jackal on Saturday 2nd January 09:48

If you are looking into a different machine with a HX the from a value fot money point of view the LA Scala Butterfly (and to a lesser extent ISOMAC Tea and Rituale) represent the best value for money
with a bit of searching you should find them new fot around 800 quid and they are worth every penn - OK need maintenace but apart from that
i have my Butterfly for 5 years now and never looked back, in fact I stoopped pretty much drinking coffee when not at home or in Italy

Another good machine with HX is the Nouva Simonnely Oscar http://www.nuovasimonelli.co.uk/home.htm
which with a bit of luck you could get for around 600 pounds - slightly less attractive to look at but great quality...
Good Luck

thanks, yes they look good machines (although I gather the TEA has never been the most reliable performrer)

If i upgrade then i will do it once and once only and just go straight to twin boiler and miss out HX altogether. Nothing wrong with HX of course but if budget is unconstrained then the twins make sense. The rotary pumps are worth having as is the extra steam power and the idiotproof ease of use (no need for cooling flushes).

Vivaldi Mini , Alex Duetto or an Expobar leva will be the front runners.

[jackal]

Wheelrepairit said:

Any of these machines do hot chocolate

Im allergic to coffee you see.

yep.. another reason i got one

i have hot choc quite a bit and my daughter even more

you just froth up the milk and i add the chocolate powder into the jug so it dissolves real easy

the mouth feel of the stretched milk is fab and its a lot quicker and easier than 2 mins in the microwave