So, talk to me about Freelanders...

[Clivey]

Evening all.

I'll make this as straightforward as possible: I'm considering my first 4x4 and here are my requirements, as it were:

- Needs to be a "proper" off roader - We do want to go off road, green laning etc.
- It's also to be a weekday car for my partner, which will be used for an urban commute - so no Defenders etc.
- We will be using it for long journeys, consequently we'd like it to be reasonably confortable and refined with air con, good seats etc.
- Therefore, I'd like as many MPG as possible (I'm thinking 30 urban, 40 extra)
- We're planning on getting our first dog (Labrador) within the next year and so we'd like something suitable for that
- I am fussy about the condition - I don't like to see worn seats, scratched interiors etc. and I don't want a car that feels "tired"
- We have a budget of around £6,000

As a result, I've narrowed the search down to a Freelander 1 TD4 (the facelift model). Something like This

Firstly, what's the general consensus on Freelander reliability these days (specifically the facelift TD4)?
Secondly, what should I be looking for model & spec wise? Are the 3 or 5 doors preferable for off roading or doesn't it matter? Are there any specific faults with either?
Finally, what other alternatives are there (I know there are a lot of small 4x4s, but not many that can go as far off road as the Land Rover)?

P.S.: I've had a quick look on various Land Rover forums but can't decide which is best to join to ask questions. Any ideas?

[Clivey]

Thanks all for the replies so far!

normalbloke said:

Don't do it.

Any reasons why?

ClaphamGT3 said:

We've got a 2001 pre-facelift model as the family run-around. Totally reliable, scrubs up well when it has to although it has a tough life. Ours is the V6 petrol so not economical but a nice spec as an ESX (in facelift parlance, an HSE). The only thing is that they're not brilliant off road as you can't lock the diffs.

Overall, I can't think of a mini 4x4 I'd rather have - happy hunting!

I was initially concerned about the lack of low range & locking diffs, but after watching some videos on YouTube, I must say I'm quite impressed with just how far the baby of the range can go off road. It'd still be nice to have them though but I suppose that given my other requirements (specifically MPG) I can't have everything!

camel_landy said:

Cracking cars... Brilliant off-road.

The only caveat is that if you are using it off-road, get yourself the TD4 Auto as that will help compensate for the lack of low-range.

As for reliability... The TD4 is the BMW engine, chain driven & bomb proof! I recently saw an example with over 400,000 miles on it and still going strong. The problem areas are around the IRD & Viscus coupling (Google it, there's plenty of info out there).

M

Edited by camel_landy on Friday 5th October 21:49

Hmmm...I wouldn't mind the auto if it didn't bugger the fuel economy. We currently have a Citroen C4 diesel that does ~44 MPG in town and whilst I realise that any 4x4 will see a big drop in that, it'd be less painful to get 30 out of a manual than 25 out of the auto (going on the official urban figures for the two gearboxes).

Will a manual cause big problems with clutches etc. off road, or is it a case of the auto being preferable from that point of view, but not essential?

[Clivey]

clunkbox said:

Used to have a td4 commercial at work.

We got 30-35 mpg, which was mostly A roads, not driving participial economically, and with chunky tyres. It was OK on the road, you could drive it more enthusiastically than the Ranger we replaced it with anyway. I'm sure it would be pretty decent with road tyres on it. Driving position is nice, but cab was noisy at 70+, we had chunky tyres and a roof rack so YYMV.

Off road it's a mixed bag. Lack of low box is a bit of a problem, first is quite high and it's not massively powerful at low rev's so crawling over obstacles isn't really an option. Lack of locking diffs can be an issue too. You have to drive it like a FWD car off road, approach things with as much momentum as you dare! Our exhaust fell off every time we went off road till we fixed it with cable ties, but the underside seems well protected, which is good because you'll constantly be catching it on stuff! Ground clearance ok, but because it is just a fraction lower than other 4x4's you'll find every rut is just a little bit too deep, having been gouged out by defenders and hiluxes!

Because of the lack of low box and so-so ground clearance I wouldn't recommend it as an serious off roader. It is a capable vehicle, but requires a lack of mechanical sympathy get it some places! Tracks that were touch and go in the freelander are doddle in the Ranger. From the sound of an auto box might help though.

If you want a family vehicle to dabble in a little off roading, it isn't a bad choice. If you want a go-anywhere vehicle and don't fancy battering hell out of it do so, look elsewhere.

We got rid of ours at just under 150k, due to a misfire and knackered IRD / Viscus coupling (may have been due to running mismatched tyres front to rear) - despite these problems it still drove fine, but it sounded a bit ill! Other than that it was reliable despite being used hard, being a vodafone fleet vehicle before we got our grubby hands on it.

Edit: An example this is a track it struggled on. It's quite a bit steeper than it looks, and because of the lack of power you had to keep up a bit of speed otherwise you would run out of momentum and grind to a halt. Because of the speed you have to keep up, you will be bouncing about and moving rocks underneath you. And due to the lack of ground clearance, and the speed you need to be doing you *will* bump the underside. But it did get up and it was more exciting that going up the same track in a proper 4x4!

Edited by clunkbox on Friday 5th October 23:12

Thanks for that. Very informative.

When i first started looking, I bought the August issue of Land Rover International - It was a Freelander special and featured a lightly modified car that had (amongst other things) all terrains, a 2-inch lift, 30mm spacers (to widen the track and allow it to fit down routes carved by Defenders) and a Mantec sump guard. I've since seen that someone else has a similarly-modified one and judging by his photos, doesn't seem to have much trouble going where other 4x4s go. This, and the previously mentioned YouTube videos actually ensure that it's ultimate off-road ability isn't my biggest worry. As It'd be my first 4x4, I'd start any off-road escapades as gently as possible so as to avoid doing damage / getting into trouble.

My main concern though is reliability etc. I'm currently looking at 2004-05 HSE and Sport models with around 60k miles. The one thing I've decided that I definitely want is either leather or leather/alcantara heated seats.

Are there any other "must have" items on the spec list or options that would hinder it off road? E.g. is the suspension of the 3-door Sport model inferior in any way when it comes to off-roading?

D7PNY said:

Grand vitara an option?

I've an 07 petrol which gets poor reviews for being under powered. This is true but is the only fault I can find with it.

I use mine for my commute, towing my track car (through fields etc on occasion) and it's been great.

Does 30mpg whatever I do to it and still manages above 25 whilst towing.

Has 4 hi/lock, and 4 lo selectable options to if offroad ability required.

Diesel better on power but considerably more expensive like for like and didn't recieve as good reliability reviews. Wierdly they seem to suffer more transmission issues (according to what I found) and of course DPF.

Mine has been great and through my abuse has only needed a small seal at the back of the gearbox (about a tenner) and heat shield on cat came loose so now held on with a huge jubilee clip

Cheers,

Dave

I quite like the new-shape ones and it appears to tick all the right boxes...but it doesn't pass muster with my partner unfortunately. I think she likes the chunky styling of the Freelander...thanks for the suggestion though - you're thinking along the right lines.

[Clivey]

A.J.M said:

Having moved on from a 04 td4 SE 6 weeks ago, here is my report over 3 1/2 years and 37k driving.

The leather/alcantra is a decent seat, not overly cold in winter like full leather.

The bmw engine likes good oil and filters, the EGR can be blanked and gives good returns for smoothness and fuel economy, hoses split with age but silicone replacements are cheap and easy to fit.

Remember to get the crankcase filter changed, nearly always gets missed on services and a clogged one will kill the turbo in time.

Best tyres go on the back, try and not mix brands etc as they don't like it.
The VCU can give trouble, you can get a recon unit from bell engineering for a few £££, loads of happy people have used the company and have a good reputation in LR circles.

Drop links can go over time, so listen for a clunk from the front, cheap and easy to change.

They handle pretty well, i used to take mine on PH runs and never got left behind as long as you knew it was a 4x4.

Very good in winter snow and grass if you have decent M+S rated tyres.

Make sure you get a proper LR specialist to look after them, mine suffered badly at the hands of a cowboy one and it cost me dearly to put right.
Manual's can give issues with the clutch, usually the master cylinder packs up, but if the slave goes then it's a gearbox out job to change. 7 hours labour.

The boot is on the small side but my labrador was happy in it, the drop down window is a good idea to help with keeping the dog cool.

Buy a good one and they are a fine car, buy a bad one and you will hate it.

The above sounds good and I don't mind maintaining my cars properly. When I bought my BMW, it had apparently "just been serviced" - they must've put the wrong grade of oil in it because it drank it almost as fast as the petrol in the tank and left me seriously concerned. I replaced it with the correct grade Castrol Edge and it's not used a drop since!

It sounds like choosing the right car in the first place is the biggest challenge. Are there any well-regarded dealers that I should check out (I don't mind travelling)?

Mike, I would love a nice Disco 2 but unfortunately I can't quite stomach having 2 cars that only do 20-odd to the gallon at the moment. My partner does an urban commute during the week so a Disco would be at the petrol station forecourt more than it'd be on our drive...shame really.

[Clivey]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I would say go for a light colour. The aircon on the Freelander I and facelift is pretty marginal; ours is black and even though the aircon is fully functional it can struggle to cool the car on a hot day.

Ideally, I'd like a red one. I've had 4 blue cars in a row and it's time for a change! I like unusual colours though - sometimes you see a colour that you hadn't previously considered but that looks great on that particular car.

Does anyone else think the air con's not up to much?

[Clivey]

camel_landy said:

Air-con has been fine for me in the ones I've driven.

Everyone here will have their own views (some based on experience, some based on prejudice...), what you need to do now is get behind the wheel of one and form your own opinion... Not someone else's.

M

Actually I drove one on Wednesday that was for sale locally. - A HSE Station Wagon with a black leather interior. I can't say I noted the effectiveness of the air con but I was quite impressed with the drive. The steering and gearbox were more direct than I imagined and the only real criticism is that the dashboard looks a bit dated with all the Rover switchgear. - it's just that my C4's like a space ship inside so everything else is a bit "normal". However, unlike the C4, the Freelander has a usable glovebox and cup holders!

After driving one, a Freelander seems like the ideal car for what we're after but on this particular example the interior was badly scuffed and scratched and there were some other tell-tale signs of a careless owner. I still can't decide the exact model I want or even whether I want a Hardback or Station Wagon (at this point I'm leaning towards the Hardback). I think our ideal Freelander would be a HSE Hardback...but they seem to be quite rare. - I like the look of the Sport models but I think they're the wrong model for off-roading due to the lower suspension and bigger wheels (correct me if I'm wrong). As I understand it, that leaves only the SE and HSE if I want leather?

downthepub said:

I don't know what size you are, but a good friend of mine had one of these (a freebie cast off from his mother believe it or not), and he had tremendous problems with the seats and driving posture. Basically buzzing around town was fine, anything further was painful for his back. I never had a problem with it. We are both about 6', I'm about average proportions whereas he's got quite a long back and the lack of height adjust for him was a problem. Perhaps take one out for a drive to ensure you fit.

I'm about 6'2" or 6'3"...I was surprised the driver's seat doesn't have a height adjuster but I still managed to get comfortable quite easily. The problem is that you can't normally take one on a long journey before you buy it!

Thanks everyone for the help - this is good stuff...keep it coming!

[Clivey]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I think you're possibly being too fussy on condition. You need to remember that these get bought to be family cars/dog carriers/towing vehicles. Everyone that I know with one gives it a fairly hard life and, don't forget, the youngest of these will be 5 years old now.

Whilst I realise they're not brand new cars, I suspect that most Freelanders probably haven't seen anything more challenging than a couple of snotty children and a trip to the tip / supermarket etc. It's just that the one I drove was particularly "well worn" inside and despite copious amounts of air freshener, couldn't disguise the stench of cigarette smoke. Someone had also butchered the dashboard to fit a mobile phone holder, which they'd then removed and left a sharp piece of metal sticking out from the centre console. I've seen a few others at similar money that were all in much better condition and that I'd be happy with, so it's just a question of deciding what it is that I want...and selling my current car.

[Clivey]

300bhp/ton said:

Seems I'm a bit late to party on this one. But here's my take.

1. Off roading means getting dirty and potentially damaging a vehicle - it happens. If you are worried about this, don't buy a shiny vehicle to off road with. Get a cheapy 2nd vehicle for the off roading.

2. While the Freelander is amazingly capable, it isn't a proper 4x4 in the same sense as some other 4x4's. There are several limiting factors, such as limited wheel travel, poor flex, low ground clearance, not brilliant approach angles and no low range. Also the 4wd system requires slip before it engages all wheels.

On the plus side the traction control sytems and HDC are really very very good. An auto diesel will offer the best low speed control off road, but still lacks wheel torque by a massive margin compared to a proper off roader. Also the auto box makes the TD4 feel asthmatic on the road, reduces fun on the road and ruins mpg.

3. Male sure all bits work on the Feelander, all electrics and the 4wd system. The cars aren't hugely unreliable, but they can suffer niggles and some of the drivetrain components can wear and cause damage to others if they aren't fixed.

4. Other plus points of the Freelander are the retractable rear window. The 4wd system will work at any speed, so unlike something like a Suzuki Vitara, you don't have to worry about selecting 4wd and the Freelander will work superbly in snowy slushy conditions when some other 4x4's might find they have too much grip for 4wd (so will wind the transmission up) but not enough for 2wd.


5. If you do plan to off road your Freelander you might want to consider a suspension lift and some mud terrain tyres (on a 2nd set of rims??). An exhaust guard and some other under body protection might not be a bad idea either, oh and some good tow ropes and recovery gear. This is essential for anyone venturing off the beaten track.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

After reading-up on their capabilities, I am happy that the Freelander's the right kind of vehicle for us. It appears to offer some genuine off-road ability whilst doing all the "weekday car" stuff pretty well. Though I do plan on going off road, I don't see myself doing anything too outrageous / risky with it. - I know that everyone claims to play the hardest etc. etc. but I'll be the first to say that I won't be pushing it too far. I realise that even light off-roading carries risk, but I'm happy with that.

If I do end-up with one, I will be looking at fitting a sump guard, rock sliders, a small lift and appropriate tyres etc. I've seen a couple of similarly-equipped ones and they seem ideal for us.

I appreciate the advice on checking the electrics / AWD system. This is the kind of stuff I need to know and I'm reassured when you say that the reliability isn't as bad as some would have you believe. I currently own a Citroen so I'm used to people telling me it's going to blow up in a cloud of smoke. Fingers crossed but that hasn't happened in the 5 years I've owned it!

The one thing I haven't done yet is join a Land Rover forum. Which are the best for Freelander owners?

[Clivey]

Sorry for the late reply everybody, I've been dealing with a home emergency - Mike mentioned water inside the car...not ideal, but not as bad as when it's coming through your living room ceiling.

mikeh501 said:

Cant help thinking that you've already made your mind up with regard to buying a freelander and your looking for someone to tell you it "isnt that bad" off road.

No, I'm not after that at all (I did not mean to give off that impression). I fully realise that it's NOT the same as a full-size 4x4, Defender etc. - I would love to own a Disco but for reasons such as running costs (the TD5s do ~24mpg around town), it wouldn't be practical for us at the moment.

What I am after is any 'buyers guide' type information on the Freelander TD4. - Information on the VCU and electrics was useful, as were those that have told me that the facelift TD4s are much more reliable than the pre-facelift cars (reading reports on those is somewhat off-putting).

The reason I say it's the 'right kind of car' for us are that it can do all the weekday stuff, isn't extortionately expensive to run and is capable of some green laning etc. I have come to realise that for c£6k, I can't have a vehicle that is very capable off road (like a Disco, Grand Cherokee etc.) and is also decent on fuel. - I do not have the room for 2 more vehicles so buying a 4x4 and another daily driver for her isn't an option. Plus that would mean 2 lots of tax, insurance etc. etc.

mikeh501 said:

I think that by adding all that stuff to it to make it even possible to go off road your going to compromise it significantly and make it good at neither.

That's what I want to find out...if specific modifications (e.g. a 2" lift) would mess it up as a road car, they wouldn't be an option. I doubt that rock sliders and a sump guard are bad ideas though.

Having said that, I have read the comments of 2 owners of lifted Freelanders. They both claim that the lift hasn't compromised it on-road. I'm currently trying to find more info on LR forums.

mikeh501 said:

Its a decent enough road car which will see you through winter, snow, ice, flooding etc. It just isnt going to cut the mustard off road unless were talking the most gentle of green lanes...

Then I guess the "most gentle of green lanes" will have to do unless there is a better alternative to a Freelander bearing my other requirements in mind?

mikeh501 said:

Have you been off roading yet? I think it would open your eyes as to what to expect, and what you can expect from the freelander. If your in Staffs/Cheshire/Derbyshire area id happily show you.

Thank-you. I'm near Derby and would love to.

I went with a cousin that used to own a classic Rangie when I was a kid, but haven't had the chance since.

mikeh501 said:

Remember that just because you dont want to get into the gnarly stuff with your vehicle it can still be damaged. Plenty of trees, branches, water, mud (inside and out), tree stumps etc which can catch you out even when the terrain looks passable. Just the treading mud in and out of the vehicle is a royal PITA if you need to keep it clean for the missus to use the next day.

Duly noted. However, the missus will be coming off road with me so she'll be equally responsible for getting it dirty!

PH lurker said:

Efbe said:

this does sound slightly like a typical PH what car thread though.

OP: Should I buy this car?
1: no
2: no
3: no
4: no
5: no
6: no
7: no
8: no
9: no
10: no
11: no
12: no
13: no
14: no
15: no
16: no
17: no
18: no
19: no
20: no
21: no
22: no
23: no
24: no
25: no
26: no
27: no
28: no
29: no
30: no
31: no
32: no
33: maybe
OP: In that case it's the perfect car, I'll go and get it now.

So true.

Except that if you actually read the whole thread, there are just as many posters saying it's ideal...I do know what you mean about the average thread though!

Edited by Clivey on Monday 22 October 16:06

[Clivey]

Ayahuasca said:

I note that you said 'no defenders' because you will use the car for an urban commute.

I use my defender 110 for an urban commute including nose to tail city traffic jams and a multistorey carpark and it performs brilliantly. Just saying like.

Fantastic (if it were just me, I'd have a TVR and a Defender )...now try selling that idea to your average woman.

I'm trying to ease her in gently (please don't misquote this).









Oh, go on then...

[Clivey]

arollingstone said:

6K would get you a nice cushy discovery...

And I'd like one...but they're quite simply too big and thirsty for us. We live in a suburb and the missus commutes through the city centre every day - this and shopping etc. will be what it's used for 90% of the time, with outings at the weekends and hopefully the occasional green lane (maybe every one or two months at least initially). This is why the Freelander's 30mpg urban is attractive. It allows us to have a 4x4 with some off road ability without being totally unsuited to the daily grind. We're still young (20's), so there's plenty of time for bigger 4x4s later on!

HarryW said:

The original point I was making though with that list was I 'know' my misses wouldn't get on with one.

Precisely.

[Clivey]

Efbe said:

OP, you made your mind up before you even started this thread. just go out and buy one.

Fair enough

I was mainly after any model specific information regarding what to look out for etc. - which I've now found plenty on by looking at the dedicated forums.

JVaughan said:

Have you thought about a new ish Grand Vitara ??? for around £6k you could get a sub 60,000 grand vitara, leather, 5 door, 1.9 diesel (thats 42 extra urban, and 37 combined), selectable 4wd, great to drive on or off road (change the tyres for all terrains and you can play with the big boys) ?

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/suzuki/grand-...

I did look but to be honest they just don't grab me for some reason. I know they're quite capable, but maybe it's because they look a bit...girly? My partner doesn't really like the looks either, which is a big thing to her (you know what most women are like ).

This sort of thing really appeals to me though (note the lift):