Suggestions - for what 4x4 if not a Defender...
Discussion
Looking for a budget tank of a 4x4 and I know next to nothing about the options I'm looking at...
Getting shot of a brilliant (but pointless) FFRR SC as its too nice to do the jobs I'm wanting to use it for where we now live..
Default option was to get a Defender (driven them before and like them) but they seem bloody expensive for what you get.
So with a 5k budget, whats as capable as a daily utility / site type vehicle that will deal with kids, mud, bikes, unmade road, snow and ice.
Only requirement is a decent heater.
Like the look of old land cruisers etc - but are they reliable? Can you get parts etc ok? Is a Jap import a problem?
Getting shot of a brilliant (but pointless) FFRR SC as its too nice to do the jobs I'm wanting to use it for where we now live..
Default option was to get a Defender (driven them before and like them) but they seem bloody expensive for what you get.
So with a 5k budget, whats as capable as a daily utility / site type vehicle that will deal with kids, mud, bikes, unmade road, snow and ice.
Only requirement is a decent heater.
Like the look of old land cruisers etc - but are they reliable? Can you get parts etc ok? Is a Jap import a problem?
Jeep Wrangler and Cherokee look smart options. Cherokee offers better load capacity.
Land cruiser similarly looks like a great option.
Forrester is a good shout too but I'm thinking a big old truck is a useful thing to have vs a slightly raised road car.
Lots of different land cruisers - some nice classic 70 series out there but figure they might be a bit of hard work to look after and maybe a 3.0D VX from around 2000 is a good shout for 5k...
Land cruiser similarly looks like a great option.
Forrester is a good shout too but I'm thinking a big old truck is a useful thing to have vs a slightly raised road car.
Lots of different land cruisers - some nice classic 70 series out there but figure they might be a bit of hard work to look after and maybe a 3.0D VX from around 2000 is a good shout for 5k...
TLandCruiser said:
What about a Nissan patrol?
Didn't know they existed. Having a look.Spent all my petrolhead time staring at GT cars, my 4x4 knowledge is terrible...
Getting pretty excited looking at the 4.5 / 4.7 LC from the 90s.
Not sure which is better - the slightly older more retro looking 4.5 or the later more plentiful 4.7. All see to be available at around 4-5k...
300bhp/ton said:
I assume as you've responded to every other suggestion mentioned in the thread, that the Santana didn't appeal?
Yes - although I needed to spend a bit more time to understand your suggestion before responding as I want immediately familiar. In the end a Defender doesn't appeal much either! guess I've refined what I really need though all these suggestions. However, it was interesting to find out about a model I had no idea that existed though - so thanks for that 
I guess I spent too much of my youth bouncing around in Defenders across fields and I don't really have a lot of love for them when I think back! I respect them and their ability to be fixed with a lump hammer and some expert level swearing and their sheer capability in the rough stuff, but having thought about it the main requirement is a huge loadspace or the ability to transport mine and others kids in it in child seats - 7 seats here with the ability to get through anything the weather throws at us in a relatively isolated spot and cope with the site being churned up pretty badly while we carry out some extensive building and renovation...
Landcruiser is what I'm focussing on now.
Coming down to whether it's a last of the line 80 series, vs an early 100 series. Prefer the look of the 80, but the 100 is clearly a step forward technologically. However the 80 might have less gizmos to go wrong.
Thoughts on these ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331691763673?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252038212350?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221916110941?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141793917701?_trksid=p20...
Coming down to whether it's a last of the line 80 series, vs an early 100 series. Prefer the look of the 80, but the 100 is clearly a step forward technologically. However the 80 might have less gizmos to go wrong.
Thoughts on these ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331691763673?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252038212350?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221916110941?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141793917701?_trksid=p20...
I didn't plant to only look at petrol - thats just how its worked out in terms of what looks good at the budget I've set myself, I guess petrol ones just work out cheaper..
I know nothing about LPG - but I'm assuming that I can just run them normally on petrol and ignore the LPG entirely. Mileage will be pretty low so mucking about with LPG when I have nowhere local to fill up with it is a bit pointless..
Series 80 sounds like more my kind of thing, will take my time and look at a few over the next couple of weeks..
I know nothing about LPG - but I'm assuming that I can just run them normally on petrol and ignore the LPG entirely. Mileage will be pretty low so mucking about with LPG when I have nowhere local to fill up with it is a bit pointless..
Series 80 sounds like more my kind of thing, will take my time and look at a few over the next couple of weeks..
[quote=300bhp/ton]
The Santana offers everything a Defender 110 does, but for half the cost.
There are usually quite a few on ebay around the £4-5k mark.
What you get in return is an R380 gearbox, LT230 transfer box (but allows 2wd running for better mpg). These are the same as a Defender 110. You get essentially the same axles, they aren't as strong as Yota ones, but to be fair, on normal size tyres (say up to 32") they are perfectly fine. It's when you get bigger tyre than that, that they become an issue.
The PS10 uses an Iveco 2.8 litre diesel engine, which is more powerful than the Land Rover offerings, it's also reliable and tunable and pretty good on fuel.
The PS10 rides on parabolic leaf suspension. Paraboloics are clever, in that the leaves only touch at the ends and in the middle, unlike a regular leaf pack on older Land Rovers. The advantage is, each leaf can act independently and you get a ride similar to coil springs. But a more robust and simple leaf suspension system, (less moving parts and less bushes to wear out). In fact the front suspension of the Santana has more travel than a Defender does!
In terms of ride, 110's ride pretty well. I don't think an LC will ride any better, it'll have better NVH, but that'something different.
The best thing about the Santana is its utility nature. Robust and easy to maintain and climbing in and out with muddy boots is no probs as all.
They do a 10 seater model, so loads of room for everyone. The rear tailgate is also wider than a 110's, wide enough to fit a standard Euro pallet in if you wanted (designed on purpose for this).
Selfishly I think I'd enjoy the above - or a defender. But my boys will certainly be happier strapped in a land cruiser than a defender when it's required
The Santana offers everything a Defender 110 does, but for half the cost.
There are usually quite a few on ebay around the £4-5k mark.
What you get in return is an R380 gearbox, LT230 transfer box (but allows 2wd running for better mpg). These are the same as a Defender 110. You get essentially the same axles, they aren't as strong as Yota ones, but to be fair, on normal size tyres (say up to 32") they are perfectly fine. It's when you get bigger tyre than that, that they become an issue.
The PS10 uses an Iveco 2.8 litre diesel engine, which is more powerful than the Land Rover offerings, it's also reliable and tunable and pretty good on fuel.
The PS10 rides on parabolic leaf suspension. Paraboloics are clever, in that the leaves only touch at the ends and in the middle, unlike a regular leaf pack on older Land Rovers. The advantage is, each leaf can act independently and you get a ride similar to coil springs. But a more robust and simple leaf suspension system, (less moving parts and less bushes to wear out). In fact the front suspension of the Santana has more travel than a Defender does!
In terms of ride, 110's ride pretty well. I don't think an LC will ride any better, it'll have better NVH, but that'something different.
The best thing about the Santana is its utility nature. Robust and easy to maintain and climbing in and out with muddy boots is no probs as all.
They do a 10 seater model, so loads of room for everyone. The rear tailgate is also wider than a 110's, wide enough to fit a standard Euro pallet in if you wanted (designed on purpose for this).
Selfishly I think I'd enjoy the above - or a defender. But my boys will certainly be happier strapped in a land cruiser than a defender when it's required
300bhp/ton said:
Honestly, I think most kids, especially boys would love being in a Defender style vehicle far more. They are much more open, airy and less claustrophobic inside. So children often travel better and less car sickness.
The low window line also helps here I think. Plus there is just the sense of occasion of climbing up in something like the Santana or Defender, that few other 4x4's have.
When you're ten maybe. When you're not quite 2 then trust me - not so much!The low window line also helps here I think. Plus there is just the sense of occasion of climbing up in something like the Santana or Defender, that few other 4x4's have.
So far I s driven s couple of LC 80s a 2.7 Pajero (underpowered but very characterful) and have immediate and shed about old discoveries...
Currently tracking a 4.2 patrol and a 4.5 80 series LC...
Lots of dogs on eBay, and tough to find a decent non mega miles 80 series with the 4.2 diesel and an auto box..
Also love the earlier series from 199891993( 70 series).. Lots of character...most pretty rusty though...
Defender is a moot point. I've got toddlers. A LWB county in decent nick isn't going to be around for 4k, so I've moved on.
What I have also realised is from the suggestions here are that old TD5 Discoveries look incredible value. I guess most are going to be rusty as hell, but I'll just have to get my head under them and cross my fingers. Are they massively unreliable compared to something like a Patrol? I'm getting rid of an L322 RRFFSC because of the incredible depreciation / bork factor combination... But £3k is less than I was figuring Id need to spend and if it ruins for a couple of years then its probably cheap motoring, anti would leave me a couple of grand over to sort out the old school 911 with a proper non race exhaust system so I can DD that in the summer instead which would be cool...
Still want an old school land cruiser, but the iceland expedition is probably a few years off yet. Maybe when the boys are bigger. Maybe I'll build up to one.
However having done a lot of digging, I do really like the shape of the 4.2 Patrol. I found this Patrol on Ebay. Its in Scotland, I have no idea if its good or not, but its a 4.2. Looks a bit shabby (rear window covered in gaffer tape etc) but half tempted to take a punt. Big risk given it's a case of flying into Glasgow on the basis it's good enough and I'm driving it home for 8 hours...
http://r.ebay.com/xU63Yk
Anyone want to be an armchair expert and encourage / warn me off?
What I have also realised is from the suggestions here are that old TD5 Discoveries look incredible value. I guess most are going to be rusty as hell, but I'll just have to get my head under them and cross my fingers. Are they massively unreliable compared to something like a Patrol? I'm getting rid of an L322 RRFFSC because of the incredible depreciation / bork factor combination... But £3k is less than I was figuring Id need to spend and if it ruins for a couple of years then its probably cheap motoring, anti would leave me a couple of grand over to sort out the old school 911 with a proper non race exhaust system so I can DD that in the summer instead which would be cool...
Still want an old school land cruiser, but the iceland expedition
is probably a few years off yet. Maybe when the boys are bigger. Maybe I'll build up to one.However having done a lot of digging, I do really like the shape of the 4.2 Patrol. I found this Patrol on Ebay. Its in Scotland, I have no idea if its good or not, but its a 4.2. Looks a bit shabby (rear window covered in gaffer tape etc) but half tempted to take a punt. Big risk given it's a case of flying into Glasgow on the basis it's good enough and I'm driving it home for 8 hours...
http://r.ebay.com/xU63Yk
Anyone want to be an armchair expert and encourage / warn me off?
Shogun looking a good call perhaps. Still rather smitten with the Patrol. Sure it looks like a bad idea buying a car 200 miles away sight unseen when the advertiser doesn't even provide a mobile phone number.. What could possibly go wrong...
Still considering MY2000 Discos - found a couple nearby at 3k, one v8 auto and one TD Manual. The manual is shabbier and rustier in the pics, but concerned about the autobox on the V8 and the number of toys it has which probably don't work...
Older Shogun / PAero 2.8s looking incredible value at around 1k? anything wrong with the 2.8s? A shed money 4x4 is quite attractive in some aspects...
Still considering MY2000 Discos - found a couple nearby at 3k, one v8 auto and one TD Manual. The manual is shabbier and rustier in the pics, but concerned about the autobox on the V8 and the number of toys it has which probably don't work...
Older Shogun / PAero 2.8s looking incredible value at around 1k? anything wrong with the 2.8s? A shed money 4x4 is quite attractive in some aspects...
As I've said, I like the defender personally, but at 5k I don't think it's a nice place to strap kids in group 1/2/3 car seats. For the money there are more pleasant experiences for small passengers that will still give the off road capability that will cover what I need..
Coming round to the idea of a Shogun or Patrol.
4.2 Patrols seem pretty rare creatures, so wondering about the later generation with the 2.8 or 3.0 engine - any thoughts on them?
Coming round to the idea of a Shogun or Patrol.
4.2 Patrols seem pretty rare creatures, so wondering about the later generation with the 2.8 or 3.0 engine - any thoughts on them?
300bhp/ton said:
As I said, it's completely your choice. But I'm still baffled by this point. I have been the small child in a 110, as were most of my cousins, and have known many other families that had 110's as the primary family vehicle. They aren't at all unpleasant.
I'm not saying ALL defenders are unpleasant - as I opened the thread I pointed out I rather like them. The issue for me is at the price point I want to buy (less than 5k and ideally as little as possible), I cannot find one thats comparably as nice / safe / rust free / not smelling of sheep p1ss / lacking holes in the floor / a piece of bailer twine for a door handle as I can other things, like Shoguns, Discoverys, Landcruisers etc. I suspect this is because the defender is highly prized for the image it's built up by being a great vehicle.And for the record I've tested a few discoverys now, they seem pretty solid as a driving option. The condition varies wildly at the price point. I saw 3 this morning and one was very solid in terms of bodywork, no visible external rust, all clean in the arches and the chassis looked pretty solid as did the boot floor. The second was a bit shabby with some bubbles here and there, and the 3rd looked great in the pictures but the rear arches were just paint and you could have poked your fingers through them all over the place, and the chassis had enough mud and straw on it to start a farm..
Having seen a few more, I think I've found a pretty solid 4.0 V8 Auto thats in decent nick with full history and only two owners for 2.5k. Some of the interior bells and whistles don't work (glovebox catch doest work, passenger seat electric motors are gone and the air con needs regassing, but for the money I don't think I'll argue and will get it bought.,
Might still bid on the Patrol tonight though, seller seems genuine and it's one heck of a lot of car for the money at the right price, and I like an adventure...
Having seen a few more, I think I've found a pretty solid 4.0 V8 Auto thats in decent nick with full history and only two owners for 2.5k. Some of the interior bells and whistles don't work (glovebox catch doest work, passenger seat electric motors are gone and the air con needs regassing, but for the money I don't think I'll argue and will get it bought.,
Might still bid on the Patrol tonight though, seller seems genuine and it's one heck of a lot of car for the money at the right price, and I like an adventure...
oops.
Just bought this on eBay. Couldn't resist the look of it and their 'indestructible' reputation. HPI clear, MOT until May. 4.2 Petrol Auto 109k on the clock, service history and only 4 previous owners. Would have preferred a diesel but can't wait, and frankly for the usage I'll give it the mpg doesn't really matter.
will need a bit of TLC but there are plenty of them being broken on eBay so shouldn't be an issue, but I got it for the same as I was looking at paying for a similar age Disco. Only time will tell if i've been an idiot. Having said that I've got a fairly long track record of not buying the obvious choice and it's not done me too much harm.
Pick it up Saturday.
In Scotland.
Fingers crossed it drives ok as it's a long long way home!
Just bought this on eBay. Couldn't resist the look of it and their 'indestructible' reputation. HPI clear, MOT until May. 4.2 Petrol Auto 109k on the clock, service history and only 4 previous owners. Would have preferred a diesel but can't wait, and frankly for the usage I'll give it the mpg doesn't really matter.
will need a bit of TLC but there are plenty of them being broken on eBay so shouldn't be an issue, but I got it for the same as I was looking at paying for a similar age Disco. Only time will tell if i've been an idiot. Having said that I've got a fairly long track record of not buying the obvious choice and it's not done me too much harm.
Pick it up Saturday.
In Scotland.
Fingers crossed it drives ok as it's a long long way home!
Yup am worried about rot, but I guess I"m taking a punt here. At least there are plenty of Y60 spares on eBay so worst case I can get replacement panels relatively cheaply. I already know it need a new passenger side rear window, but with 6 months MOT remaining I'd hope that the chassis is in reasonable condition. If it ends up needing some welding then my old neighbour runs a great independent garage which will do me a good deal on sorting it out.
I'll post some pics of it once I've got it home Saturday.
I'll post some pics of it once I've got it home Saturday.
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