Let's Off-Road!
Discussion
Well yes, a bit of a pipe dream but I've a few questions about off-road, green lanes etc.
I recently went on the free Land Rover Experience you get with your new car. Took a Discovery Sport like mine out under tuition and I have to say it was great fun.
We're planning to do another one, or similar sometime in a Defender. As a passenger I've been off roaming and my wife lived driving in the mud.
So to the pipe dream. How expensive a hobby would this be?
An old Defender 90, Or Disco with a bit of off road preparation. I know the P38 has reliability issues but would one of these be OK?
As for going off road, I'm thinking light stuff rather than sand ladders winches and the like.
What's the law in England like? I guess you have to be very aware of where you are driving, minimise, damage to tracks and the general environment.
Are there places you can go and pay to drive round for fun?
Neither of us are club type people, but I guess this isn't something one does solo.
As I say, just a pipe dream/idle musing, but I'm guessing it's a minimum of 10k for a basic off road knitted Landy.
I know other 4x4s are out there but it would really have to be a Land Rover rather than a Shogun or whatever.
I recently went on the free Land Rover Experience you get with your new car. Took a Discovery Sport like mine out under tuition and I have to say it was great fun.
We're planning to do another one, or similar sometime in a Defender. As a passenger I've been off roaming and my wife lived driving in the mud.
So to the pipe dream. How expensive a hobby would this be?
An old Defender 90, Or Disco with a bit of off road preparation. I know the P38 has reliability issues but would one of these be OK?
As for going off road, I'm thinking light stuff rather than sand ladders winches and the like.
What's the law in England like? I guess you have to be very aware of where you are driving, minimise, damage to tracks and the general environment.
Are there places you can go and pay to drive round for fun?
Neither of us are club type people, but I guess this isn't something one does solo.
As I say, just a pipe dream/idle musing, but I'm guessing it's a minimum of 10k for a basic off road knitted Landy.
I know other 4x4s are out there but it would really have to be a Land Rover rather than a Shogun or whatever.
lostkiwi said:
Just to add more now I'm not replying using a phone!
The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
Thanks so much. Thanks to everyone. I got no work done this afternoon after following that YouTube link, and the next, and the next.The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
I'd love to have the balls to use this as God intended....But I think my wife would kill me!
Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff