Donington Track Safety
Discussion
Whilst I've been somewhat distracted by the no wheels off nonsense - this is something that is very serious
Donington has been doing a massive amount of earth movements to improve spectator safety. However, they've seemingly not understood the implications to driver safety.
Have a look at the 2 photos below show the wall changes that your faced with coming down through Craners.
They've moved the concrete wall significantly closer to the track and if you had a straight on movement (clash of cars, failure) you'll have 20 meters of grass straight into a double concrete wall. That would be quite literally a dead stop.
Last year my friend Sean Edwards died in a similar incident in Australia. That was further and through a couple of rows of tyres and then into a wall. The dash ended up in the back of the car, such was the force of hitting a concrete wall. There's no give in hitting a concrete wall.
BTCC drivers have already expressed their concerns - it's incredibly dangerous and something needs to be done. If you remember Plato's off a few years ago - that could have been a very serious accident or fatality with the new layout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
Donington has been doing a massive amount of earth movements to improve spectator safety. However, they've seemingly not understood the implications to driver safety.
Have a look at the 2 photos below show the wall changes that your faced with coming down through Craners.
They've moved the concrete wall significantly closer to the track and if you had a straight on movement (clash of cars, failure) you'll have 20 meters of grass straight into a double concrete wall. That would be quite literally a dead stop.
Last year my friend Sean Edwards died in a similar incident in Australia. That was further and through a couple of rows of tyres and then into a wall. The dash ended up in the back of the car, such was the force of hitting a concrete wall. There's no give in hitting a concrete wall.
BTCC drivers have already expressed their concerns - it's incredibly dangerous and something needs to be done. If you remember Plato's off a few years ago - that could have been a very serious accident or fatality with the new layout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...
spikey78 said:
Has anyone asked Donington about it? Maybe they're going to put a gravel trap in front of it
Matt Neal raised it a few weeks back when they were testing there. I was there last Thursday and nothing has been done. The only suggestion so far has to been to remove one of the concrete walls so it has some give to it but they a car could end up in the spectators !splitpin said:
Well spotted and pointed out.
Just watched this on our vids from last weekend's racing; like some others, I had not really picked it up, but for sure this has hugely increased the potential dire consequences of a nudge; even at a speed of circa 130mph, it's created something like two seconds of massive peril that did not really exist before. Two seconds is a huge increment of time (for things to go amiss) at those sorts of speeds.
This is unacceptable and remedial action needs to be undertaken immediately; if remedial means moving the barriers back to where they used to be, then IMHO, so be it. Safety comes first and there should be no exceptions.
It was actually Matt Neal that kicked this off - he's pushing hard for something to be actioned before BTCC next week. Just watched this on our vids from last weekend's racing; like some others, I had not really picked it up, but for sure this has hugely increased the potential dire consequences of a nudge; even at a speed of circa 130mph, it's created something like two seconds of massive peril that did not really exist before. Two seconds is a huge increment of time (for things to go amiss) at those sorts of speeds.
This is unacceptable and remedial action needs to be undertaken immediately; if remedial means moving the barriers back to where they used to be, then IMHO, so be it. Safety comes first and there should be no exceptions.
Moving the concrete walls back is impossible - there are 100s thousands of tonnes of earth there now.
WestfieldBend said:
It is surprising they have moved the barrier closer.
However the new version is significantly safer than the old configuration.
The old configuration consisted of earth bank with some loose tyres in front of it. Making it likely that cars hitting it would be launched into a roll.
Plato's roll would not have happened with the new wall.
Probably need to extend the tyre wall both ways though as the BMW at the motors race day only just hit the the tyre wall rather than concrete.
I need to make this 100% clear - this new positioning of the wall is NOT safer. However the new version is significantly safer than the old configuration.
The old configuration consisted of earth bank with some loose tyres in front of it. Making it likely that cars hitting it would be launched into a roll.
Plato's roll would not have happened with the new wall.
Probably need to extend the tyre wall both ways though as the BMW at the motors race day only just hit the the tyre wall rather than concrete.
Straight on at craners at 130mph into a solid, no give, double concrete wall would be fatal.
I'm calling the MSA for an update this morning
Edited by woof on Monday 7th April 10:11
indigorallye said:
I noticed this photo, from Danny Walton (www.dwmotorportphotography.com) and thought of this thread.
Looks like they've put a 2 or 3 rows of tyres there but I don't think that's enough. Sean Edwards died hitting a similar concrete wall with a double row of tyres.
Edited by woof on Monday 7th April 19:14
andy97 said:
Wonder how the risk here comes to the risks at Oulton, Cadwell, Mallory or Castle Combe?
It is strange that they should move the barriers closer and everything should be done to make circuits safer, but I do think there are bigger risks at other circuits.
Personally I wouldn't race at Mallory but that's my choice. It is strange that they should move the barriers closer and everything should be done to make circuits safer, but I do think there are bigger risks at other circuits.
Oulton doesn't have concrete walls. And that's the issue with this change. I've actually clipped the wall on the other side of the track ! Wouldn't recommend it. It's the dead stop that a concrete wall. It doesn't give at all. Armco does give and it absorbs some of that deadly energy. Then you have issue like at Le Mans with Allan Simonsen's death. Armco but it couldn't give because their was a tree directly behind the impact. You don't ever want to hit a a large tree.
Couldn't get hold of John Symes at the MSA today. I'll try again tomorrow
Not good.
The MSA believe it's safe.
BTCC drivers have made a formal approach through Derek Warwick stating as they don't think it's safe and are looking for additional protection / barriers for this weekend.
I think everyone needs to kick up a fuss about this - send emails to your clubs and organisers. Send them the photos of the before and after below and it's pretty obvious that it is only "safe" up until someone has a big accident there and has a serious or fatal injury.
The MSA believe it's safe.
BTCC drivers have made a formal approach through Derek Warwick stating as they don't think it's safe and are looking for additional protection / barriers for this weekend.
I think everyone needs to kick up a fuss about this - send emails to your clubs and organisers. Send them the photos of the before and after below and it's pretty obvious that it is only "safe" up until someone has a big accident there and has a serious or fatal injury.
andy97 said:
woof said:
The MSA is looking for people to be on the race committee - I'm thinking of doing it. About time a club racer has a say on what they do !
Go for it. Where did you see that?Page 6
I just need a Club to sponsor the application - CSCC ?
Last years changes were not safe in my and many other drivers. And Donington no doubt realised that and made changes to that over the winter. Unfortunately that didn't stop your very heavy impact. Personally I do feel that wall should have a multiple layers of tyres for added protection. Safety efforts should always be moving forward.
http://www.donington-park.co.uk/news/2015/02/05/wi...
http://www.donington-park.co.uk/news/2015/02/05/wi...
Hey Jonny - A pitwall is somewhat different I feel. Sadly I'm all too aware of the the results of hitting a concrete wall with Sean Edwards death. The impact into was was an immovable concrete wall was horrific. Although other factors were also involved in that accident.
As I said - The MSA, circuits and drivers should never be complacent about safety and should always be looking in ways to improve it for all involved. And Donington has indeed improved things over the winter. Unlike Brands who in my opinion have made Paddock more dangerous by putting that raised curb on the exit in their ongoing madness to prevent drivers running a wheel over a kerb. No doubt Palmer won't stop until he has a sniper on every corner (rant over).
As I said - The MSA, circuits and drivers should never be complacent about safety and should always be looking in ways to improve it for all involved. And Donington has indeed improved things over the winter. Unlike Brands who in my opinion have made Paddock more dangerous by putting that raised curb on the exit in their ongoing madness to prevent drivers running a wheel over a kerb. No doubt Palmer won't stop until he has a sniper on every corner (rant over).
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