Early apexing - need a slap!
Discussion
Gents,
Looking for some tips or ideas please.
I'm now a licenced racer thanks to cracking the ARDS last week at Silverstone. I'm competing in my first race in a couple of weeks at Anglesey (an 8 hour endurance race) and am in the process of getting my head together.
My instructor at Silverstone was suberb (Colin who came down from the North East) and gave me some excellent feedback and pointers.
In the main I was ok and he was happy. My hobby is historic rally driving so I have no real problem with understanding how to balance the car and what is going on in general.
However, one thing I consistently get wrong is turning in too early.
With historic rallying this is always the way to do it, giving you time to manage the inevitable oversteer (
) but with racing - not so much!
Colin suggested I think about turning in 'around the back' of the corner - hitting the apex but at the right angle to get the steering lock off asap and pin the loud pedal.
Has anyone else got any tips on how best to get this into my thick skull?
Cheers,
Ben
Looking for some tips or ideas please.
I'm now a licenced racer thanks to cracking the ARDS last week at Silverstone. I'm competing in my first race in a couple of weeks at Anglesey (an 8 hour endurance race) and am in the process of getting my head together.
My instructor at Silverstone was suberb (Colin who came down from the North East) and gave me some excellent feedback and pointers.
In the main I was ok and he was happy. My hobby is historic rally driving so I have no real problem with understanding how to balance the car and what is going on in general.
However, one thing I consistently get wrong is turning in too early.
With historic rallying this is always the way to do it, giving you time to manage the inevitable oversteer (
) but with racing - not so much!Colin suggested I think about turning in 'around the back' of the corner - hitting the apex but at the right angle to get the steering lock off asap and pin the loud pedal.
Has anyone else got any tips on how best to get this into my thick skull?
Cheers,
Ben
Yes to Colin Elstrop. He races this Granny so we had a lot to talk about.
That's kind of the point re rally cars vs racing cars - it sounds like I'm just going to have to re-learn how I do things. Am very much enjoying learning a new skill, it's been years since I've done something outside my comfort zone.
Don't think I'll ever me a Hakkinen but it's fun trying
That's kind of the point re rally cars vs racing cars - it sounds like I'm just going to have to re-learn how I do things. Am very much enjoying learning a new skill, it's been years since I've done something outside my comfort zone.
Don't think I'll ever me a Hakkinen but it's fun trying
I'm new to racing, not quick driving 
Trail braking is something I've tried a few times. I'm not very good at it I must say.
While rally driving, especially on the hillclimbs, I do a lot of left foot braking. I'm pretty good with the feel of the brake pedal through the wrong foot but with trail braking I don't seem to get the release timing right.
I'm not going to try and learn it ahead of this race, mainly as it's my first one and I'm in someone else's car
Trail braking is something I've tried a few times. I'm not very good at it I must say.
While rally driving, especially on the hillclimbs, I do a lot of left foot braking. I'm pretty good with the feel of the brake pedal through the wrong foot but with trail braking I don't seem to get the release timing right.
I'm not going to try and learn it ahead of this race, mainly as it's my first one and I'm in someone else's car
Greensleeves said:
Hi Ben,
I know exactly where you are.
I did the Rally Yorkshire in an Escort and Oulton Park in the MR2 a week later and I do exactly what you are describing.
The way I taught myself how to not throw it in before the apex and steer with the loud pedal which works in an Escort in the forest but not an MR2 on a track, was by driving relatively slowly on the road. Pick a road with loads of obstacles like bends or roundabouts and go drive down it. At each obstacle you have one go at steering. Pick your turn in point and apex and apply some steering and keep the same lock throughout the corner. If you have to apply any correctional steering through the obstacle you have failed. I'm not saying this is the way to drive on track (although I do think it helps). It's a way of getting your brain to think of a different turn points and late apexes. You're allowed to wind lock off on the exit but not apply more lock without getting a fail. I tend to stick to my side of the road as well using the white line as the track limit. There's usually enough width to allow you to pick and choose lines but if not you can use all the road if it's safe and legal to do so. You can practice this at standard speeds and the cars around you and even your passengers will not know you're doing it apart from you cursing under your breath when you get a fail.
Give it a go and let me know how you get on.
Well chaps, crunch time this weekend I know exactly where you are.
I did the Rally Yorkshire in an Escort and Oulton Park in the MR2 a week later and I do exactly what you are describing.
The way I taught myself how to not throw it in before the apex and steer with the loud pedal which works in an Escort in the forest but not an MR2 on a track, was by driving relatively slowly on the road. Pick a road with loads of obstacles like bends or roundabouts and go drive down it. At each obstacle you have one go at steering. Pick your turn in point and apex and apply some steering and keep the same lock throughout the corner. If you have to apply any correctional steering through the obstacle you have failed. I'm not saying this is the way to drive on track (although I do think it helps). It's a way of getting your brain to think of a different turn points and late apexes. You're allowed to wind lock off on the exit but not apply more lock without getting a fail. I tend to stick to my side of the road as well using the white line as the track limit. There's usually enough width to allow you to pick and choose lines but if not you can use all the road if it's safe and legal to do so. You can practice this at standard speeds and the cars around you and even your passengers will not know you're doing it apart from you cursing under your breath when you get a fail.
Give it a go and let me know how you get on.
I've been religiously following Greensleeves' tip above and it has been a bit of a revelation - thanks
Let's see how we go. At least it's a bunch of amateur racers.
Oh no, wait...
Well gents, it was quite a weekend.
Frankly the racing was the least difficult part of it. So much pride in my friends putting together an event like this. The remembrance service in the pitlane in the middle of the race was a moment I'll never, ever forget. I had my great grandfather's DCM and other medals with me from WW1, quite emotional holding them 100 years since he and many others made the ultimate sacrifice.
On to the racing...
The Anglesey coastal circuit is an absolute belter. It is pretty easy to memorise but difficult (for me at least) to string together lap after lap of consistency.
I got there though and was very happy with my times. I managed to crack into the 1.25s and was pretty comfortable pedalling round in the 127/8s for 40 minutes at a time.
I was pretty cack in the wet qualifying though, need to work on wet weather racing.
Thanks for all the tips. After thinking through what I'd been told (and read here) I really got the hang of late brakes and late apexes. Stringing together The Banking, flat in 4th through Church and arriving at Rocket at c.125mph was by far my favourite section of the track.
Hope we can get some more PHers along to RoR 2015, saw quite a few stickers and tshirts about but was a bit busy to stop and say hello.
Frankly the racing was the least difficult part of it. So much pride in my friends putting together an event like this. The remembrance service in the pitlane in the middle of the race was a moment I'll never, ever forget. I had my great grandfather's DCM and other medals with me from WW1, quite emotional holding them 100 years since he and many others made the ultimate sacrifice.
On to the racing...
The Anglesey coastal circuit is an absolute belter. It is pretty easy to memorise but difficult (for me at least) to string together lap after lap of consistency.
I got there though and was very happy with my times. I managed to crack into the 1.25s and was pretty comfortable pedalling round in the 127/8s for 40 minutes at a time.
I was pretty cack in the wet qualifying though, need to work on wet weather racing.
Thanks for all the tips. After thinking through what I'd been told (and read here) I really got the hang of late brakes and late apexes. Stringing together The Banking, flat in 4th through Church and arriving at Rocket at c.125mph was by far my favourite section of the track.
Hope we can get some more PHers along to RoR 2015, saw quite a few stickers and tshirts about but was a bit busy to stop and say hello.
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