Road rallies - navigator needed and is a Boxster suitable?

[thegoose]

I haven't done a road rally for over 20 years (when I campaigned a Manta GT/E, standard except for cage & spotlights etc) but fancy getting back into them again after 10 years of circuit racing.

So, unless there have been dramatic changes in the interim, I would imagine that the most important thing for a decent result is a good navigator, which I don't have. I also don't have an ideal car - the closest is a Mk4 Golf GT TDi 130 (chipped to circa 160bhp) but this has been lowered and whilst whatever has been done works really well for road use (it drives great, including around Donington and Oulton), it will be too low for rough roads (I have to be careful of the front bumper skirt when parking front on to a kerb). On balance, I'd rather source a suitable car for the job than butcher a decent road car.

So, whilst I'm more keen to just get out there and compete in something/anything sooner rather than later, the thought also occurred that an early, cheap Boxster could be made into quite a suitable car. I don't know what engine capacity/power limits there are for most rallies these days, so I would appreciate it if anyone could let me know whether a 2.5 24valve 6 cylinder 201bhp NA engine is likely to be admissable?

So, any North West based navigators please get in touch , and any advice re. a car is welcome. For now, I'm thinking any old hot hatch would do, or a ready-prep'd previously-rallied car of some kind, with the Boxster as a future possibility (if it's allowed).

[thegoose]

I am looking at doing overnight road rallies, not scatters or 12-car events, so as I remember it, the navigator doesn't have to look up much. I appreciate your point about being a lower, straight leg seating position, but it's easy to fit a footrest. I suppose I should say why I thought the car would be suitable - it's RWD, the flat-6 engine is flexible, they handle well and the brakes are very good. They can also be bought for not much money - probably £2000-£3000 for a scruffy one, which is what I'd be after. As a comparison, the much-more-desirable Boxster S (3.2 engine) that I raced for 2 years started out as a very tidy, but slightly tired, road car for £4000 off eBay.

Anyway, looks like I'll have to park that idea if it has to be 4 cylinder, but on that note, are multi-valve engines OK these days? Hard to find suitable cars at a sensible price with fewer than 16 valves I would have thought. I guess if a Proton is the weapon of choice then it'd be worth considering one - I can only find one on eBay, none on PH and an automatic one on autotrader! A Honda S2000 might be good left-field choice (I saw a 1-owner one for under £2000 yesterday) and is still RWD. 924's don't really do it for me, I'm afraid, though I have had great fun racing a 944S2 (well, apart from this happening), maybe if I tried one I might change my mind, but I'm leaning towards something more modern. I can see I'll end up trawling eBay for a ropey old 306 GTi-6 or similar, but it's always such a pain traipsing round to see if cars like that have been accurately described.

I think the advice of going to an event is probably a good idea, and thanks for the tips about where to look for a navigator. Can you also tell me what licence I need (I currently have National A Race and ARDS C Instructor licences)?

[thegoose]

So, how does this look?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proton-Satria-GTi-Road-R...

From a safety perspective I think I'd want to change the seats to proper competition ones and probably get the cage welded in. I only used normal seats in my Manta but I'm more aware of safety now I'm older (see the link in my previous post for the video of my bad crash - the car was very well built and held up brilliantly, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be alive now if it was a road car, whereas at the time I was just a bit sore for a few days, well apart from the shard of glass that came out of my elbow a few weeks later ).

Other than that, thoughts on car/price please?

[thegoose]

You doing a good job of getting me fired up for doing that event now! I had been hoping to race in the Oulton Park Gold Cup that weekend but the car I was going to borrow isn't eligible for any of the classes. If you think the car's that desirable then please don't share it just yet. I'm not all that motivated to travel down there myself (my tow car is a V8 Cayenne which would be costly too!). I'm guessing I could get it transported by trailer for under £200 (I often get movement quotes as I'm a car dealer), but then it's the question of dare I pay for it without me or anyone I trust having seen it?

Any help you can offer for finding me a navigator would be much appreciated . I had some decent results back in 1993/4 (I doubt I can find my results online but I profited from being a Novice and a Junior in various ANWCC championships (autotests, speed events and road rallies) which netted me a few pots, I'd have to dig them out to see what they were though) and whilst I noticed a 6/7 years ago when I navigated for an ex-girlfriend on a Scatter that she was slightly better at reading some twisty dry-stone wall lined roads at night than me (there were a few times when I'd have braked, or been about to, but she was confident enough not to), I don't think I'd be a let down to an experienced navigator.

[thegoose]

Just as an update, I'm making progress regarding that car - I realised I know a local Porsche motorsport garage (from racing with/against the owners) so I'm trying to get it looked over by them. I've also had one local guy get in touch about navigating, but he's not sure yet if he'll be able to make the Colman Tyres event, so I'm still looking

However, I took a car in part exchange yesterday and a thought occurred to me - would a Toyota Rav4 2.0 be eligible if it was made 2WD?

[thegoose]

I thought I'd better update this in case anyone's interested.

The Proton didn't come off - when I spoke to the seller on the Monday evening I said I'd have the car subject to it being checked over local to him (due to the distance it was from me). and he was in direct contact with them to make convenient arrangements. He didn't ask for a deposit (which I'd have happily given) but instead took me at my word. The garage confirmed they could look it over no later than 11am Friday (so I could have paid for it in full by noon and sorted out collection later), but the seller had someone else get in touch on Thursday and took a deposit off them on the basis they'd collect it Friday night, which I presume happened as I didn't hear any more from him. So either the seller was worried about having his car inspected (in which case I avoided the associated costs) or he just wasn't a ery honourable bloke.

Anyway, after various messages with velocemitch, who's been very helpful and, crucially, found me a navigator with some experience and for the event we're doing, local knowledge so we've entered this weekend's Colman Tyres event in Yorkshire (must remember my passport). I had planned to use an old Toyota Rav4 that came in part exchange recently, on the basis that it was the only thing I had that fitted reg's, has good ground clearance and isn't particularly valuable. However, on eBay I came across a reasonably local Peugeot 306 GTi6 that had been prep'd for road rallies listed at £950, complete with a few months' MOT. I got hold of the seller to find out a bit more, and did an HPi check, which revealed a double Cat-C status that the seller didn't know about Undeterred, I decided it was worth going to see, so hitched up the trailer and off I went last Tuesday. I was expecting to find a few issues but didn't think a leaking rear brake pipe and empty fluid reservoir would be amongst them! However, it seemed basically sound, ran OK (once I'd re-attached the aftermarket air filter) and drove alright (although it doesn't seem to have as much of an eager response as I was expecting, it kind of feels like you're wringing it's reluctant neck). Cosmetically it's quite scruffy, including a bashed-back-out-again large dent/gauge in the nearside rear wing, which is probably the reason for the Cat C status (a relief really as it's purely cosmetic). The rev counter and (more importantly) temperature gauge don't work and it sometimes has a propensity for stalling. No matter, I negotiated a lower price (partly to help towards the essential work to the brakes) and duly loaded it on the trailer to come home.

I left it with a local garage on the way back with instruction to check it over for safety etc along with a list of bits & bobs to attend to. I was away till yesterday but after a phone call on Monday (awful coverage where I was on a short break from Thursday) the headline of which was them saying they "didn't want to get involved with it" and me persuading them to do the brake pipes and change the fluid (to the new ATE DOT4 Class 6 stuff that apparently supercedes Racing Blue, but has a lower boiling point of 265 degrees rather than 280 - still better than standard DOT 4 at 235 though). So, I got it back yesterday afternoon, fiddled around with a few odds and ends (lights, wipers, washers etc) and tried the fix I'd read on the internet for the rev counter - a new multi purpose/fuel pump relay. This didnt work, and leaves me questioning the internet's ability to fix my cars. I have however determined the maximum speeds in each gear (well, the lower ones) before the rev limiter cuts in, so that'll do for now. The internet fix for the temp gauge is new sensors - there are 3 though and Euro Car Parts only listed two. I have them here and will try them later - I didn't do so yesterday as I didn't want to risk disabling the car before a test drive last night. I really would like the gauge to work but at least I know the radiator is nearly new and the fan has been wired to a dash switch so I can flick it on permanently.

The test drive on damp roads with a an unknown car on forest rally type tall front tyres and standard rear tyres, coupled with wrong-wheel-drive was something I took to cautiously. However, it seems to go OK (very loud exhaust) although the lift-off oversteer on roundabouts was a little more sever than I was expecting (I put this down to the tyres). I didn't experiment to see if the ABS is operational but I suspect not.

So, within a matter of weeks since my first thoughts and post on the subject I've bought a car, found a navigator and entered an event - let's see how we get on on Saturday night!

Here's the spec of the car:
Peugeot 306 GTi6
12 owners
104,000 miles on the clock (it may even be accurate, who knows?)
No service history but cleanish looking oil
No idea when the timing belt was last changed (if ever)
Full welded in roll cage (with lots of padding that squeeks a *lot* when driving)
Twin fibreglass competition bucket seats
Twin four point harnesses
Navigator's footplate
Navigator's LED lights on cage and extra cig lighter socket for Potti etc
Sturdy looking spotlight brackets and wiring (using my navigator's spotlights on the first event)
blanked off front foglight apertures
Alloy sumpguard
Non-standard exhaust back box
Dash switches for cooling fan, heater fan and spotlight relay
Deep dished steering wheel (with *very* dirty suede rim if the state of my hands after last night's drive are anything to go by)

....and all for a lot less than one set of the tyres I used to race on, which would last one meeting!


The outcome of the event will determine what happens next e.g. service, timing belt, set of tyres etc or whether I look for something else instead and put this up for sale (or whatever's left of it after a night's rallying!).

The seeded entry list is out and we're last Semi-Expert (of 5) so the aim is to finish higher, ideally with a podium, but I'm under no illusion that this will be down to the navigator and my ability to listen to him and do as I'm told, as well as the car functioning OK too.

I'll update next week as I'm likely to be resting on Sunday and then at the Oulton Park Gold Cup on Monday, but for now I'm quite excited about getting back into the sport.

[thegoose]

OK, the short version is that after a start time of 10.56 pm we ran until 1.30am when the timing belt snapped whilst pootling along on a transport section. My navigator got a lift in the back of a Metro that had dropped out due to a broken driveshaft (they were able to drive it back due to the stiff diff it had!) and I had to wait all alone in the middle of nowhere for a very nice man from the AA to ferry me and the car home. Without a map of my own I had literally no idea where I was, but thankfully they found me just fine. I got back home at 5am.


I had avoided changing the belt etc beforehand because the cost of doing so would be approaching 50% of the purchase price of the car, I instead decided to give the event a go with the intention of a thorough service and belt change afterwards, together with any other bits & bobs that became apparent on the event. Obviously, if I'd had a crystal ball I'd have done things differently, but the garage's estimate for sorting it out is only £3-400 on top of what a pre-emptive belt change would have cost me, so whilst the gamble didn't pay off, it wasn't catastrophic price-wise and will also be improved due to a full top end refresh. It turns out 10 of 16 valves were bent, so once that's sorted it's having a service, the rev counter and temp gauge being made to work, a hydraulic handbrake fitted and I'll probably get them to check it out/tune it up on their rolling road too. I've also bought some of my own spotlights of eBay, which I'll fit, but probably with a high power HID kit fitted, and I need to get some more or improved navigator's interior map reading lights. I'll be away for the Clitheronian but will be looking to do an event as soon as possible when I get back at the end of September.

[thegoose]

How strange, banning something so cheap and kind of safety related. The whole kit to convert my Golf was well under £20, less than for some halogen bulbs (I used to run 180/100W bulbs on my Manta and they were about a tenner each twenty-odd years ago). Oh well, thanks for the heads up. I'll look at those events too.

[thegoose]

The car is fixed so I'll be collecting it this week. I'm up for doing the Illuminations Rally but the guy who did the Colman with me (well, barely half of it actually...) can't make it so I need a navigator!

Also, I might be wrong but it looks from the regs like the navigation is not so challenging as the Colman?

Either way, having spent more on the car than I did buying it in the first place I'm now looking for any opportunity get out and compete! Any takers?! :-)