Discussion
khm said:
fitted electric corsa b to my car ( Pulse) with e bay variable unit, can also turn it off if you want. wouldn't be without it, so much easier to drive and can increase / decrease the power help to suit your driving and car feel
got big wheels on the front ( 295) and you can spin the wheel with one finger on max power help
one of the best things i put on the car
Hi Keith,got big wheels on the front ( 295) and you can spin the wheel with one finger on max power help
one of the best things i put on the car
When the unit is turned off is there "extra play" at the steering wheel due to the torsion bar or have you fitted a strain guage on the column?
Corsa B or C columns are available for not much money, these need an external signal to operate the steering ECU, the external signal is in the form of tacho and speed derived pulses (which would normally come from sensors on the corsa) that are replicated by a small variable signal generator available aftermarket for about £50.00
Corsa columns are anything from £50.00 S/H to £250.00 for re-conditioned and (at the moment) are in plentiful supply.
EPAS comes in many forms and the people in the link below supply BTTC teams with motorsport units,
They can supply a basic Corsa derived kit complete for about £550.00 and have some technical back up if you need it, or you could do this yourself for £150.00?
One problem I have with these home build kits is that you can't turn it right off without adding some "play" into the steering, this is due to a torque sensor on the column that needs the play in order to give feedback to the ECU, of course if the ECU is off then all you feel is play.
Apparently this can be overcome by fitting a strain guage instead of the torque sensor but this adds another £500 + to the cost.
The systems supplied here range from £550. to £5,000+
http://www.wiringlooms.com/EPAS.aspx
Corsa columns are anything from £50.00 S/H to £250.00 for re-conditioned and (at the moment) are in plentiful supply.
EPAS comes in many forms and the people in the link below supply BTTC teams with motorsport units,
They can supply a basic Corsa derived kit complete for about £550.00 and have some technical back up if you need it, or you could do this yourself for £150.00?
One problem I have with these home build kits is that you can't turn it right off without adding some "play" into the steering, this is due to a torque sensor on the column that needs the play in order to give feedback to the ECU, of course if the ECU is off then all you feel is play.
Apparently this can be overcome by fitting a strain guage instead of the torque sensor but this adds another £500 + to the cost.
The systems supplied here range from £550. to £5,000+
http://www.wiringlooms.com/EPAS.aspx
khm said:
TBH don't know if either will fit in an ultima, i went to a place who had both and the c is a longer unit with the power motor lower down so would be more difficult to get in
can't believe i don't have a photo of it, but was done just before it went to paint so was a bit of a rush ( screen was out so made it alot easier )
That's where I'm at now, Corsa B is shorter and so should be easier to fitcan't believe i don't have a photo of it, but was done just before it went to paint so was a bit of a rush ( screen was out so made it alot easier )
Storer said:
I think you chaps need to man-up.
I'm an old fa*t and I can manage the steering even with 285 Khumo fronts. Yes it's heavy, but the faster you go the better it is!
With standard front wheels it's fine. My steering wheel is larger than standard though.
Everything extra you add to the car - servo clutch, EPAS, stereo & speakers, super/pro charger, intercooler, etc, etc would see Lee Noble (or Colin Chapman, Gordon Murry, Etc,) pulling out their hair (or turning in his grave in Colin's case).
One of the main reasons that these cars are so awesome is that they have big power in a LIGHT car..
Remember, less is more!!!!
Paul
Yeah right! That's why my Noble had power steering, twin turbochargers (with intercooler) and a stereo as standard fitment and air con was an option to omit!I'm an old fa*t and I can manage the steering even with 285 Khumo fronts. Yes it's heavy, but the faster you go the better it is!
With standard front wheels it's fine. My steering wheel is larger than standard though.
Everything extra you add to the car - servo clutch, EPAS, stereo & speakers, super/pro charger, intercooler, etc, etc would see Lee Noble (or Colin Chapman, Gordon Murry, Etc,) pulling out their hair (or turning in his grave in Colin's case).
One of the main reasons that these cars are so awesome is that they have big power in a LIGHT car..
Remember, less is more!!!!
Paul
Gordon Murray's Maclaren F1, Standard equipment included on the stock McLaren F1 full cabin air conditioning, electric defrost/demist windscreen and side glass, electric window lifts, remote central locking, Kenwood 10-disc CD stereo system. also standard were tailored, proprietary luggage bags specially designed to fit the vehicle's carpeted storage compartments, including a tailored golf bag!
Colin Chapman was too tight fisted to fit anything he didn't need to
Also in terms of road cars the Ultima is not what I'd call a light car in its present form.
A 730 kilo Elise with an Audi Turbo lump at a modest 430 BHP.... now that's a light car, I hear some are making in excess of 500 BHP now!
Anyway I only want the assisted steering for parking the damn thing!
Storer said:
It is quite a lot of expense and complication just to make it easier to park. Not something I have had a problem with.
The Noble was trying to be a 911 alternative so needed the wimp steering.
The F1 weighed in at not much more than an Ultima following cutting edge (at the time) weight saving to allow for all the creature comforts.
The Lotus is a different matter. A nice light car, Honda with supercharger for the road, Audi Turbo for the track - too much lag for the road IMO.
OK, if you want a car with all the mod cons it's up to you. You are slightly missing the point of an Ultima, but each to their own.
Paul
Hands up those who have a stereo system.The Noble was trying to be a 911 alternative so needed the wimp steering.
The F1 weighed in at not much more than an Ultima following cutting edge (at the time) weight saving to allow for all the creature comforts.
The Lotus is a different matter. A nice light car, Honda with supercharger for the road, Audi Turbo for the track - too much lag for the road IMO.
OK, if you want a car with all the mod cons it's up to you. You are slightly missing the point of an Ultima, but each to their own.
Paul
You're all missing the point of an Ultima.
teamHOLDENracing said:
I have a Corsa column fitted to my TVR Sagaris V8 race car. As someone has mentioned, they do have play in the column due to the way the torque sensor works. You won't notice it until it is on the car - turn the system off then turn the steering - you get a couple of degrees of steering wheel movement before the road wheels move.
Initially I had an Ebay controller with a variable adjuster. Even on the lowest assist setting it was far too light on a race track. It also provided assist when unwinding lock, causing you to go over centre, which was unnerving on track. Most worryingly it would sometimes cut out altogether and come back on - so you had too much assistance, then none, then too much again. In short it was bloody dangerous and I abandoned it. The thermal cutout in the Corsa ECU couldn't cope with the assist required with slicks on a track.
I replaced it with the DC Electronics Motorsport EPAS ECU and it is a revelation. No cutting out, I can programme the assist levels (5 different settings, each configurable) - and because I can configure the shape of the input/output torque curves, I can set it up so it effectively gives more assist in slow speed hairpins than it does on high speed sweeping bends. It also has a steering angle sensor which gives me rack stop protection (switches off the power when you reach full lock - unlike the cheapo versions which will continue to demand more assist until something burns out). I'm hugely impressed with it. DC also do a version with a strain gauge which dispenses with the slack in the system - I'm still on the standard torque sensor version and don't notice the play whilst racing, although inevitably it must mean that driver inputs are slightly delayed.
Granted this is all feedback from racing and is less relevant on the road, but thought you might find it helpful.
In short do you think the car is better for the EPAS or would you rather go back to un-assisted, I assume you fitted the EPAS initially to overcome the extra steering load produced by Slicks?Initially I had an Ebay controller with a variable adjuster. Even on the lowest assist setting it was far too light on a race track. It also provided assist when unwinding lock, causing you to go over centre, which was unnerving on track. Most worryingly it would sometimes cut out altogether and come back on - so you had too much assistance, then none, then too much again. In short it was bloody dangerous and I abandoned it. The thermal cutout in the Corsa ECU couldn't cope with the assist required with slicks on a track.
I replaced it with the DC Electronics Motorsport EPAS ECU and it is a revelation. No cutting out, I can programme the assist levels (5 different settings, each configurable) - and because I can configure the shape of the input/output torque curves, I can set it up so it effectively gives more assist in slow speed hairpins than it does on high speed sweeping bends. It also has a steering angle sensor which gives me rack stop protection (switches off the power when you reach full lock - unlike the cheapo versions which will continue to demand more assist until something burns out). I'm hugely impressed with it. DC also do a version with a strain gauge which dispenses with the slack in the system - I'm still on the standard torque sensor version and don't notice the play whilst racing, although inevitably it must mean that driver inputs are slightly delayed.
Granted this is all feedback from racing and is less relevant on the road, but thought you might find it helpful.
With the standard torque sensor set-up I'd be concernen about "that" delayed input, out of curiosity how many other racers in your class use the EPAS?
Also how do you do in the races? just asking to get an idea of how it may affect overall lap time.
I was more concerned with tight manouvering involved getting my car into its garage, but if it ruins the feedback I'll pass.
GTRCLIVE said:
On the question of running more Caster (To gain more turn in Camber) how much are you running and whats the KPI ? my C5 Corvette's have had Zero Camber at rest(large front tires long straight roads so i understand why zero at rest) but with a small KPI and 7Deg of Caster they do gain a lot of Camber on turn in and they do seem to handle well. Increased Kpi is a nice way of dialing out some the scrub radius but it does tend to dial back the effect of the caster angle.
Any thoughts ??
C5 has 10mm scrub radius with 8.8KPI assuming standard 8.5 x 17 wheel with 58mm offset with an outside diameter of 25.7"Any thoughts ??
It makes not much sense to use a kpi greater than necessary for lower scrub radius for stability, when that stability could be gained from more caster.
Or am I understanding you wrong?
EddyP said:
I have had to increase the amount of caster to try and get better self centring though.
Using a programmable ecu would prevent the over centre return assist feedback obviating the need to change castor.As I understand it using one of these can stop the assist at full lock also.
Have you got rid of the overcentre feedback altogether with the castor adjustment?
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