ECM change - possibly
Discussion
With the issues I had during the final stages of build/prep for IVA etc in mind, I did wonder about the cost and practicability of swapping out my GM ECM to a Motec system, especially as there appears to be far more Motec tuning experts out there in the UK than GM.
Anyone got an opinion?
Anyone got an opinion?
DHGTR said:
Hi Keith
Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
Thanks Dave - I will ring them - anyone in particular?Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
Naah, unlike Motec and others, GM require the map to be downloaded, tweeked, then uploaded to the ECM before trying the new map adjustments.
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
Update... Mixed feelings.
Well after deciding to give the E38 one more go, and several months of waiting, I took my car up to Redditch for tuning.
I had given a very detailed account of the tuning history, challenges and issues to the tuner when I originally booked in feb, and he seemed confident that he could sort it.
I arrived to find another car on the dyno and it was almost an hr of hanging around before it became my turn.
It was fun getting the Ultima backed up onto on the rollers given the small workshop, and drift-cars lying around, but we made it.
Plugs came out to be checked as well as compression test for all cyls which were good.
Then everything got hooked up and I was informed that they would download the current HPT map to EFI Live to convert as a starting point.
A snag was hit immediately.... the map operating system would not be recognised by EFI. It appears that the previous tuner had uploaded a modified version and since EFI in NZ could not be contacted for support there was no solution for the day.
The tuner was not confident using HPI, and so the session was concluded with a 15 minute dyno session to see what we had.
At this point I dived for cover as I hate seeing my pride-and-joy having its nuts revved off!
The result was surprising.... too rich for much of the curve, too lean at the end, and some knocking (which I could not hear).
but... 560bhp at around 6.2k revs. Not too shabby for something with a poor tune. We quickly backed off the timing to minimise the pinking problem for the time being.
I was told that the only ultimate option was to replace the complete operating system with an EFI one and to start retuning from scratch, but that may take several days...
Then the crunch came as I was obliged to hand over some not inconsiderably dosh, but I didn't quibble... he could not book me this month.. earliest date in june! JUNE?
And so... more dosh parted with, and no successful conclusion.... very disappointing!
To be fair to the tuner, he was friendly, appeared knowledgeable, and relatively careful, but OH-Boy! What I found disconcerting was that he spent rather more of his time multi-tasking by answering his mobile, talking & texting than I felt comfortable with! ...but hey! I am old-fashioned... presumably this is the norm for a small business these days!
And so, what do I think?
Well, it was reasonably clear that this tuner seemed to know his stuff (if he could just stay off the damn mobile for a bit) , but obviously my particular scenario threw him a little... I suspect he could do a good job given the time and resource availability. BUT since he seems to be so popular with the drift boys, his diary is booked for months.
...and I am therefore in a bit of a dilemma, since I had intended to get the most out of my ownership these coming months, a track day is booked in May and I am off to France in July.
Do I wait and hope (not a good track record so far) that this is concluded properly in June, or do I look for a replacement ECM system (motec or summat else) where expertise/ tuning capability is hopefully more available????
... I am aware that many have had good outcomes with GM ECMs, but it seems the minute you get a non-standard problem in the UK, your options are very few, and resources are scant at best.
Well after deciding to give the E38 one more go, and several months of waiting, I took my car up to Redditch for tuning.
I had given a very detailed account of the tuning history, challenges and issues to the tuner when I originally booked in feb, and he seemed confident that he could sort it.
I arrived to find another car on the dyno and it was almost an hr of hanging around before it became my turn.
It was fun getting the Ultima backed up onto on the rollers given the small workshop, and drift-cars lying around, but we made it.
Plugs came out to be checked as well as compression test for all cyls which were good.
Then everything got hooked up and I was informed that they would download the current HPT map to EFI Live to convert as a starting point.
A snag was hit immediately.... the map operating system would not be recognised by EFI. It appears that the previous tuner had uploaded a modified version and since EFI in NZ could not be contacted for support there was no solution for the day.
The tuner was not confident using HPI, and so the session was concluded with a 15 minute dyno session to see what we had.
At this point I dived for cover as I hate seeing my pride-and-joy having its nuts revved off!
The result was surprising.... too rich for much of the curve, too lean at the end, and some knocking (which I could not hear).
but... 560bhp at around 6.2k revs. Not too shabby for something with a poor tune. We quickly backed off the timing to minimise the pinking problem for the time being.
I was told that the only ultimate option was to replace the complete operating system with an EFI one and to start retuning from scratch, but that may take several days...
Then the crunch came as I was obliged to hand over some not inconsiderably dosh, but I didn't quibble... he could not book me this month.. earliest date in june! JUNE?
And so... more dosh parted with, and no successful conclusion.... very disappointing!
To be fair to the tuner, he was friendly, appeared knowledgeable, and relatively careful, but OH-Boy! What I found disconcerting was that he spent rather more of his time multi-tasking by answering his mobile, talking & texting than I felt comfortable with! ...but hey! I am old-fashioned... presumably this is the norm for a small business these days!
And so, what do I think?
Well, it was reasonably clear that this tuner seemed to know his stuff (if he could just stay off the damn mobile for a bit) , but obviously my particular scenario threw him a little... I suspect he could do a good job given the time and resource availability. BUT since he seems to be so popular with the drift boys, his diary is booked for months.
...and I am therefore in a bit of a dilemma, since I had intended to get the most out of my ownership these coming months, a track day is booked in May and I am off to France in July.
Do I wait and hope (not a good track record so far) that this is concluded properly in June, or do I look for a replacement ECM system (motec or summat else) where expertise/ tuning capability is hopefully more available????
... I am aware that many have had good outcomes with GM ECMs, but it seems the minute you get a non-standard problem in the UK, your options are very few, and resources are scant at best.
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 9th April 10:34
I am inclined to agree with you Dave. The transition to another ECM type is fraught with potentially massive cost with stuff to change like the FBW throttle to mention only one I believe, and the possibility of a whole bag of new problems maybe, knowing my luck.
Pity I have to change to EFI though, as I have a full HPTuners setup on my laptop etc, but given the lack of 'experts' round here, I don't have a lot of choice!
.. I had a moment of madness and explored the possibility of trying myself, but since this thing is based on Speed density where the complication is magnifies, I took a look at some tutorials and fell about laughing! You need a degree in rocket-science as well as experience in detailed calc conversion mechanisms it seems, so I am ooot!
And so the wait begins... until 11th June, which seems years...
Underlying all this is also the concern I have as to the health of my E38, because, as reported a while back, I have never managed to get the Knock-sensors to work or even report to the ECU. I have changed both of them with known good ones, check the continuity of the wiring from KS plug to ECU plug, which all seem fine to me, yet still the E38 does not register knock even with the sensitivity wound up. And there is knock - I can make it pink under heavy load, so I can only conclude the E38 is not right. No error messages... If only I can make this do what would be expected.
Had thought about getting another known good one to compare, but where from in the UK? I thought they would be relatively easy to get hold of, but I am having trouble there. Seems the US is the only place, which is a bit surprising considering the proliferation of UK GM v8s in the UK?
Pity I have to change to EFI though, as I have a full HPTuners setup on my laptop etc, but given the lack of 'experts' round here, I don't have a lot of choice!
.. I had a moment of madness and explored the possibility of trying myself, but since this thing is based on Speed density where the complication is magnifies, I took a look at some tutorials and fell about laughing! You need a degree in rocket-science as well as experience in detailed calc conversion mechanisms it seems, so I am ooot!
And so the wait begins... until 11th June, which seems years...
Underlying all this is also the concern I have as to the health of my E38, because, as reported a while back, I have never managed to get the Knock-sensors to work or even report to the ECU. I have changed both of them with known good ones, check the continuity of the wiring from KS plug to ECU plug, which all seem fine to me, yet still the E38 does not register knock even with the sensitivity wound up. And there is knock - I can make it pink under heavy load, so I can only conclude the E38 is not right. No error messages... If only I can make this do what would be expected.
Had thought about getting another known good one to compare, but where from in the UK? I thought they would be relatively easy to get hold of, but I am having trouble there. Seems the US is the only place, which is a bit surprising considering the proliferation of UK GM v8s in the UK?
C Lee Farquar said:
Did the June date go ahead, Keith?
No Steve it didn't! It transpired that the tuner had little time (despite to forward booking) to give to my problem, which to be fair he thought would take more than a day (presumably with other bookings in between)to sort out.Looks like I will leaning toward going the Syvecs route as I have pretty-much exhausted other possibilities. Remember my comment of earlier? The impression is, given a simple tuning job with fairly std engine, then there are lots of avenues, but if you have something more challenging maybe with a few gremlins to fix, then they all melt away! Nobodies fault but mine!
Jeff did kindly suggest he send a tuner over to me, but unless you have a very large wallet, at $1500/day & travel, accommodation, food and filling his bag with black Toblerones on the way back through the airport, you are into mortgage territory, and is a stretch too far for me anyway!!!
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