Britcar rounds 7 and 8 - Oulton Park
Discussion
Hi chaps,
We are entered into rounds 7 and 8 of the Britcar Endurance Championship this coming weekend (Saturday 5th) at Oulton Park; with a few more updates on the car for this round, we are looking forward to a great weekend, especially after the pace we showed at our last outing at Donington back in May.
All the action is taking place on the Saturday, with 2 x 90 minute races and 2 x 30 minute qualifying sessions on the same day, its going to be busy!
Be good to see some other Ultima's there - I know a few of you lurk around the area.
Info on the rounds can be found here:
http://www.britcar24hr.co.uk/home/?page_id=5737
Live timing should be here during the event:
http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=club&season=201...
Hopefully see some of you there.
Jonny
We are entered into rounds 7 and 8 of the Britcar Endurance Championship this coming weekend (Saturday 5th) at Oulton Park; with a few more updates on the car for this round, we are looking forward to a great weekend, especially after the pace we showed at our last outing at Donington back in May.
All the action is taking place on the Saturday, with 2 x 90 minute races and 2 x 30 minute qualifying sessions on the same day, its going to be busy!
Be good to see some other Ultima's there - I know a few of you lurk around the area.
Info on the rounds can be found here:
http://www.britcar24hr.co.uk/home/?page_id=5737
Live timing should be here during the event:
http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=club&season=201...
Hopefully see some of you there.
Jonny
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Jonny: Sorry about the graph being sideways. Cars sideways yes, graphs no. I thought you might be interested in what's being done with race level N.A. LS motors here in the states. The motor depicted is an RHS billet block with All pro heads running a 13.5 to one compression ratio on 108 octane race fuel. The motor is intended to be installed in an off road race buggy. It is equipped with a Dailey dry sump system that was developing 13.2 lbs of vacuum in the pan at 7200 rpm. The ECU is one of the new 100 series Motec systems.This was not the final run on the tuning of the motor. Eventually they got 816 hp and where able to correct the majority of the sag you see from 4700 RPM to 6000 rpm. The motor is being developed by Castilo Motorsports, who also supports Gene Hass off road racing. Yes the gentlemen with the developing F1 team. Although this particular motor is not going in their buggy. I am going to try and send some pictures of the motor hopefully not sideways. Lee
Very nice! I have seen race engines here base don standard-ish components getting to the 750 mark, but nothing as high as this - the compression ratio is high for an LS - no wonder they have to run the 108 octane. Surprised they aren't running more vacuum, as I would guess that an engine such as this would have top rated wrist pins etc - but I guess being conservative is the best approach for the sake of another 10bhp or so.Our issue is power:weight limits in the Britcar series - we are restricted to around 500bhp with our current weight (~1100kg) to fit into the regulations (2.6kg/hp at the wheels). Would be nice to run more - but not convinced the chassis would stand up to it on track for hours on end!
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Certainly understand the limits placed on you by the race series. I had this info for some time and was wondering how I might bring it up, so your post about racing this week end seemed correct. By the way this motor is not a one day wonder they fully intend to run this thing in serious competition over a period of time with only inspections as to compression and main bearing checks during the year. The 13 lbs of vacuum is in the pan and as I understand it there is a bleed valve set at 14lbs. Good luck this week end, always cheer you on over the internet feeds when available. Lee
Thanks Lee - appreciate the support!That head is a work of art. The Riley boys run an LS3 motor in their Daytona Prototype and it has a similar head arrangement and produces massive power - everything I have seen on the LS series motors (sorry, engines!) suggests that these style of intakes are the way to go for big power.
That sump looks familiar too...
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Interesting comment about the Daytona Prototypes they are limited to about 500 H.P. thru a restriction in the intake. I got to meet one of the teams last year and they knew that I had a GTR. The crew chief asked about the details of the GTR as to weight and power and said actually the GTR would out run the D.P. cars in a straight line off of a corner because of the huge torque advantage that we have. Evidently the restriction kills torque. I have a smaller version of the Kinsler shown above on my GTR and its manners at low speed and partial throttle are excellent. Far exceeding what we could do with a FAST intake and single throttle body.
The one I am referring to certainly isn't restricted! But obviously the ones at Daytona and in the Uunited Sports Car Series are. A lot of the manners are in the mapping - but obviously a well designed (and packaged!) intake makes a big difference.The torque curve on the chart you posted speaks volumes - much higher at low RPM than the standard LS.
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Interesting comment about the Daytona Prototypes they are limited to about 500 H.P. thru a restriction in the intake. I got to meet one of the teams last year and they knew that I had a GTR. The crew chief asked about the details of the GTR as to weight and power and said actually the GTR would out run the D.P. cars in a straight line off of a corner because of the huge torque advantage that we have. Evidently the restriction kills torque. I have a smaller version of the Kinsler shown above on my GTR and its manners at low speed and partial throttle are excellent. Far exceeding what we could do with a FAST intake and single throttle body.
The one I am referring to certainly isn't restricted! But obviously the ones at Daytona and in the Uunited Sports Car Series are. A lot of the manners are in the mapping - but obviously a well designed (and packaged!) intake makes a big difference.The torque curve on the chart you posted speaks volumes - much higher at low RPM than the standard LS.
So a quick update...
Testing was great on Friday - we had dry sessions in the morning and almost monsoon like conditions in the afternoon, so a great opportunity to get the setup right in both conditions. The times on the stopwatch were looking good too - with Jamie clocking a 1.37 lap in the dry on old tyres with the opposition struggling to get out of the 1.40's so things were looking very good - we also had great pace in the wet as we always do. It was quite wet...
Qualifying in the morning was tricky - a damp track that was drying was in front of us - it was too damp for slicks so we opted to take the hit in qualifying and not wreck a new set of wets, so put on some old wets knowing that we would scrub them off quickly. We came in in 7th, 0.8s off 3rd which was slightly frustrating especially as we both had traffic on our quickest laps.
The race was clearly dry, and it was action from the off. The Riley DP in 3rd saw a gap up the inside of the polesitting Mosler, got along side and tagged the Mosler, causing it to spin in front of the 2nd place Rapier wiping both cars into the barrier on the left before we had even reached the first corner - everyone braked sharply and Jamie, who started the race, piled into the back of the FF Corse Ferrari 458 in front of him, causing a fair bit of cosmetic damage to the car. The race was red flagged due to both cars blocking the track, and Jamie came in for us to bandage up the front.
We were allowed back onto the track into our original position, and from the off Jamie was fast, jumping upto 4th in the first lap and on lap two dived up the inside of the Ferrari to take 3rd. Out of cascades a rear wheel touched the grass causing the Ultima to spin, firing the car backwards into the barrier on the inside of the bend at 86 mph. Clearly that was the end of our race - we hoped we could make the repairs for race 2 but the car was stranded and couldn't get it back until the end of the 90 minutes. When it came in it wasn't pretty...
Not sure how obvious it is here but we have several holes in the rear gearbox casing, obvious clam damage but also damage to the pods, along with damage to the suspension, driveshafts and damper. Thankfully the engine still runs fine so we now need to pull the rear end apart and find out what else has suffered.
A disappointing and quick end to the weekend where we showed the pace and reliability we have been working towards - the good news is that all the upgrades we made to the car have paid off, so its now a case of assessing the damage and getting it back together as soon as possible.
It was good to see Dom and Roger over the weekend too - shame neither could make it down in their Ultima's but hopefully we can have a bit more of a gathering at a future event!
Testing was great on Friday - we had dry sessions in the morning and almost monsoon like conditions in the afternoon, so a great opportunity to get the setup right in both conditions. The times on the stopwatch were looking good too - with Jamie clocking a 1.37 lap in the dry on old tyres with the opposition struggling to get out of the 1.40's so things were looking very good - we also had great pace in the wet as we always do. It was quite wet...
Qualifying in the morning was tricky - a damp track that was drying was in front of us - it was too damp for slicks so we opted to take the hit in qualifying and not wreck a new set of wets, so put on some old wets knowing that we would scrub them off quickly. We came in in 7th, 0.8s off 3rd which was slightly frustrating especially as we both had traffic on our quickest laps.
The race was clearly dry, and it was action from the off. The Riley DP in 3rd saw a gap up the inside of the polesitting Mosler, got along side and tagged the Mosler, causing it to spin in front of the 2nd place Rapier wiping both cars into the barrier on the left before we had even reached the first corner - everyone braked sharply and Jamie, who started the race, piled into the back of the FF Corse Ferrari 458 in front of him, causing a fair bit of cosmetic damage to the car. The race was red flagged due to both cars blocking the track, and Jamie came in for us to bandage up the front.
We were allowed back onto the track into our original position, and from the off Jamie was fast, jumping upto 4th in the first lap and on lap two dived up the inside of the Ferrari to take 3rd. Out of cascades a rear wheel touched the grass causing the Ultima to spin, firing the car backwards into the barrier on the inside of the bend at 86 mph. Clearly that was the end of our race - we hoped we could make the repairs for race 2 but the car was stranded and couldn't get it back until the end of the 90 minutes. When it came in it wasn't pretty...
Not sure how obvious it is here but we have several holes in the rear gearbox casing, obvious clam damage but also damage to the pods, along with damage to the suspension, driveshafts and damper. Thankfully the engine still runs fine so we now need to pull the rear end apart and find out what else has suffered.
A disappointing and quick end to the weekend where we showed the pace and reliability we have been working towards - the good news is that all the upgrades we made to the car have paid off, so its now a case of assessing the damage and getting it back together as soon as possible.
It was good to see Dom and Roger over the weekend too - shame neither could make it down in their Ultima's but hopefully we can have a bit more of a gathering at a future event!
Indeed, it was all very unfortunate - the car was performing beautifully so very frustrating that it had to end as it did. Still - we will bounce back as we always do.
If anyone has a spare yellow rear clam that would be great
The plan now is to split the clam and attach rear section of the clam to the chassis and hinge the front portion, in order to support the wing properly, which will allow us to run more downforce that we do currently.
If anyone has a spare yellow rear clam that would be great
The plan now is to split the clam and attach rear section of the clam to the chassis and hinge the front portion, in order to support the wing properly, which will allow us to run more downforce that we do currently.
Hi Dom,
No problem at all - just glad you had a good day despite the drama! Our pace was very good on Friday, particularly in the wet (as always), its just a shame that qualifying was the 'neither wet or dry' conditions which simply don't favour us at all.
Looking to get to the next round but it is going to be a push - seems to be no engine damage thankfully and the pinion shaft in the box is good, so just a bearing change and new rear casing in terms of the transmission. The rear clam could be the sticking point but will see.
Will update in due course. And another couple of shots to keep you entertained:
No problem at all - just glad you had a good day despite the drama! Our pace was very good on Friday, particularly in the wet (as always), its just a shame that qualifying was the 'neither wet or dry' conditions which simply don't favour us at all.
Looking to get to the next round but it is going to be a push - seems to be no engine damage thankfully and the pinion shaft in the box is good, so just a bearing change and new rear casing in terms of the transmission. The rear clam could be the sticking point but will see.
Will update in due course. And another couple of shots to keep you entertained:
After 50 or so hours we have stripped the engine bay, cut out the offending spars and replaced them. The heavily damaged area included both verticals where the lower wishbones mount along with the gearbox and clam mounts. Both the verticals were cut out and entirely new bars put in place, with new lower wishbone mounting points manufactured.
The central lower cross brace was also cut out and replaced with a bar that goes straight across at the same level as the rest of the chassis - we don't run the standard LS7 sump anymore so it made sense to remove this - and we are getting the bellhousing machined so that it hangs down enough to protect the flywheel but does not protrude out the bottom of the chassis. A carbon fibre panel will be made to cover the opening under the ball housing.
Now that the underside of the car is all at the same level, we will have the option of running a flat floor right through which should give significant aero benefits. The bad news is that the flat floor we made to accomodate the lower cross member is no of no use!
Making progress!
The central lower cross brace was also cut out and replaced with a bar that goes straight across at the same level as the rest of the chassis - we don't run the standard LS7 sump anymore so it made sense to remove this - and we are getting the bellhousing machined so that it hangs down enough to protect the flywheel but does not protrude out the bottom of the chassis. A carbon fibre panel will be made to cover the opening under the ball housing.
Now that the underside of the car is all at the same level, we will have the option of running a flat floor right through which should give significant aero benefits. The bad news is that the flat floor we made to accomodate the lower cross member is no of no use!
Making progress!
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Jonny: I was contemplating the change on the lowered cross bar the next time the engine is out could you post a picture of this mod with the motor back in the car? I assume that you run a A.R.E. dry sump pan which is what I have on my L.S. great product I also use the A.R.E. valve cover with the spray bar for the valve springs. That said one of the fellows here that is building a KILLER GTR has opted for the Dailey products pan with the pump mounted directly to the pan. Same pan as on the picture I showed earlier in this discussion. really nice piece of kit. Lee
We run a Dailey sump - the design is significantly better and the installation far neater than the ARE, and the reviews that we have had of both certainly swung us towards Dailey. Bill is very knowledgeable and helpful, despite how busy he clearly is.We move the bar forward slightly so that a rear end shunt would (hopefully) not result in the flywheel jamming on the bar and avoiding engine damage, as the flywheel hangs slightly below the sump (the pan is only 40mm or so deep). There is a slight cutout for the -10 oil inlet hose.
Not a great picture I am afraid...
V8Dom said:
Well done... sounds like its coming together for you and a leap forward too..
Can you let us all know the dates you are hoping to race this year?
Dom
It is slowly coming together. Hoping to make it out for the next round, which is August 9th at Snetterton. Following that it is Silverstone GP on September 20th - we may also do some GT Cup too.Can you let us all know the dates you are hoping to race this year?
Dom
A bit of on board footage from qualifying at a very damp Oulton Park with Jamie at the wheel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykiguoy1yK4
Enjoy!
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Guys that's a great piece of video. The car looks to be really well balanced, thanks for whatever filter you used to get rid of the obnoxious noise that was in one of your last videos. I still wonder about the wiper being so apparent in the drivers main view area. I know you have said that its just ignored but my 40 years of flying helicopters and studying lots of human factor stuff says it takes a toll on concentration. Just trying to contribute a thought, speed which comes in the form of concentration at the task at hand is a subtle mistress. Lee ............ i forgot to thank you for the picture it shows exactly what I wanted to see
Funnily enough we removed the wiper completely for this round - then inevitably it rained!Edited by ROWDYRENAULT on Wednesday 16th July 16:07
Not sure what we did differently on the video, but it is clear that we need a better microphone to pick up the base. Our early videos (from 2012) were taken on a series 2 GoPro which seems to have a much better microphone which picks up the base more effectively. This series 3 works well but the sound quality is very poor, which is a little disappointing.
UltimaCH said:
Any way to connect another mike to better pick up the bass sound?
Regarding the wiper, it moves around like it had too much play in the mechanism. Not normal to me and as Lee says, it must be a source of distraction.
I think there is an external mic - will take a look at some point.Regarding the wiper, it moves around like it had too much play in the mechanism. Not normal to me and as Lee says, it must be a source of distraction.
The wiper is ****ed. Will swap it out for the next round - the splines on the wiper arm itself have given up.
Paddles are good - stripped the box to inspect for crash damage, and the dogs look brand new, so very pleased. Takes a significant amount of strain off the driver which makes a big difference.
So having repaired the chassis the next job was the bodywork - thankfully a very generous of our community, who shall remain nameless, offered us a clam that had been involved in a slight prang and needed some minor repairs - so we duly took the kind soul up on their offer and low and behold - we have a new(ish) rear clam! So a big thank you to the person who supplied this - without this there would have been next to zero chance of us racing in ten days time!
Sue to the complexity of the modifications to the rear clam, we decided to salvage the front half of the clam, cutoff the back portion and take the opportunity to solidly mount the rear section of the rear clam, complete with wing etc, onto the chassis. The new clam was dissected and the rear section was fitted onto a new frame which we built up - and boy is it solid. Can quite easily have two people stand on it without issue - this will enable us to run much more downforce than we could previously as we were limited by the clam mounting previously.
The front section of the rear clam was trimmed, tidied up and reinforced in a couple of places and hinged onto the rear section which was bolted onto the car - it works pretty well, just needs a bit of trimming at the front edge to make sure it open and closes cleanly.
So the 'major' work is done, now need to disassemble everything and rebuild the gearbox, which was put into place with no internals just to get everything aligned correctly, and a multitude of other small (but vital!) jobs like fill all the fluids, fit the rear light loom, do the tracking etc as well as tidying up all the edges and fits (not so vital!)...so there are going to be some late nights between now and the 8th August (next round at Snetterton) but hopefully should be OK...fingers crossed!
Sue to the complexity of the modifications to the rear clam, we decided to salvage the front half of the clam, cutoff the back portion and take the opportunity to solidly mount the rear section of the rear clam, complete with wing etc, onto the chassis. The new clam was dissected and the rear section was fitted onto a new frame which we built up - and boy is it solid. Can quite easily have two people stand on it without issue - this will enable us to run much more downforce than we could previously as we were limited by the clam mounting previously.
The front section of the rear clam was trimmed, tidied up and reinforced in a couple of places and hinged onto the rear section which was bolted onto the car - it works pretty well, just needs a bit of trimming at the front edge to make sure it open and closes cleanly.
So the 'major' work is done, now need to disassemble everything and rebuild the gearbox, which was put into place with no internals just to get everything aligned correctly, and a multitude of other small (but vital!) jobs like fill all the fluids, fit the rear light loom, do the tracking etc as well as tidying up all the edges and fits (not so vital!)...so there are going to be some late nights between now and the 8th August (next round at Snetterton) but hopefully should be OK...fingers crossed!
Making progress slowly. The rear end is back together now with a new rear light loom and full compliment of LED bulbs, which actually look fantastic. Rear clam repaired and modified, and all the mechanical parts back in and together. Now got all the suspension alignment, ride heights and corner weights to setup and fill the gearbox oil, along with as much fettling of body fits as we can shake a stick at!
On the front we got rid of the hinged rose joints at the front as one of the metal inserts was lost, and we replaced with quick release pins - which are actually as solid as a rock. The front clam was (quickly!) repaired and reassembled. Before and after shots here, having some issues with embedded links at the moment!:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MacG-Racing/1607583...
On the front we got rid of the hinged rose joints at the front as one of the metal inserts was lost, and we replaced with quick release pins - which are actually as solid as a rock. The front clam was (quickly!) repaired and reassembled. Before and after shots here, having some issues with embedded links at the moment!:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MacG-Racing/1607583...
V8Dom said:
well done guys
car look fantastic
dom
Thanks Dom,car look fantastic
dom
After a monumental effort from the team, we are about there. We have managed to repair all the chassis, redesign the rear end, rebuilt the gearbox and examine the engine, and repair all the bodywork, suspension and driveshafts. Went for a bit of a different livery at the rear - pretty pleased with how it came out. Roll on Snetterton on Saturday!
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff