Power - they are overtaking us
Discussion
Is it me or are all the major manufacturers putting us in the shade when it comes to power output these days. I may have had this rant before, so ignore me if you wish.
No longer is it enough for the 'average' supercar to have 600hp. Many are now knocking on for 700.
Hyper cars now see 1000hp as the target and there are a few with 900+hp. They use various means to get there and lots of electronics to control that power.
They are also working very hard to lose weight, also eroding our trump card.
Then there are their quick shifting transmissions......
How can an Ultima regain the high ground.
In my opinion more dieting is the best route as I can't see self builders being able to compete on the electric motor power gap filling hybrid technology.
So, how do we save that weight?
The chassis is strong but not light. Challenge No1
The body is high quality, but could be lighter if made of carbon.
The same with the seats.
The wheels are another area of weight loss. If the whole car was lighter they could also be narrower (lighter still).
My car is not intended to be a stripped out race car. But neither are most of the current crop of supercars/hyper cars.
In my opinion the weight loss route is where the Factory could be looking to upgrade their product. I would love to know what the weight saving from doing a carbon body would be and the cost implications.
Am I alone in this thought process and would the Factory agree that this route would make the most sense.
Paul
PS. I know that I could make quite a difference in my own case if I lost 25kgs, before anybody else points it out!
No longer is it enough for the 'average' supercar to have 600hp. Many are now knocking on for 700.
Hyper cars now see 1000hp as the target and there are a few with 900+hp. They use various means to get there and lots of electronics to control that power.
They are also working very hard to lose weight, also eroding our trump card.
Then there are their quick shifting transmissions......
How can an Ultima regain the high ground.
In my opinion more dieting is the best route as I can't see self builders being able to compete on the electric motor power gap filling hybrid technology.
So, how do we save that weight?
The chassis is strong but not light. Challenge No1
The body is high quality, but could be lighter if made of carbon.
The same with the seats.
The wheels are another area of weight loss. If the whole car was lighter they could also be narrower (lighter still).
My car is not intended to be a stripped out race car. But neither are most of the current crop of supercars/hyper cars.
In my opinion the weight loss route is where the Factory could be looking to upgrade their product. I would love to know what the weight saving from doing a carbon body would be and the cost implications.
Am I alone in this thought process and would the Factory agree that this route would make the most sense.
Paul
PS. I know that I could make quite a difference in my own case if I lost 25kgs, before anybody else points it out!
I am glad my topic has created some discussion.
I believe you are correct that the Factory did get a carbon body made, but it was quite a while ago and I suspect the process is much better understood now and a weight saving of around 50% could be achieved now on the body (at a cost).
The chassis is an area where a few more Kgs could be saved using higher grades of material with thinner walls. The panels could be made of carbon too (small weight saving).
One piece wheels would also save some weight.
I suspect it would be possible to shave off around 100kgs but it could add £10-15K to the kit cost.
I know the car is already great value in the performance per £ stakes. Mine is only about 500bhp per ton so you guys with 700/ton still have a big performance advantage over the mass produced supercars.
Maybe I will swap the camshaft next winter to see if I can get to 630ish but most of the time 575 is quite enough.
Paul
I believe you are correct that the Factory did get a carbon body made, but it was quite a while ago and I suspect the process is much better understood now and a weight saving of around 50% could be achieved now on the body (at a cost).
The chassis is an area where a few more Kgs could be saved using higher grades of material with thinner walls. The panels could be made of carbon too (small weight saving).
One piece wheels would also save some weight.
I suspect it would be possible to shave off around 100kgs but it could add £10-15K to the kit cost.
I know the car is already great value in the performance per £ stakes. Mine is only about 500bhp per ton so you guys with 700/ton still have a big performance advantage over the mass produced supercars.
Maybe I will swap the camshaft next winter to see if I can get to 630ish but most of the time 575 is quite enough.
Paul
I do not know if the moulds used for the current body could be used for carbon panels.
I do know that the moulds have a limited life expectancy and have to be replaced after X number of bodies.
If it is possible, what would a body cost?
If it is not possible, what would the moulds cost?
Paul
I do know that the moulds have a limited life expectancy and have to be replaced after X number of bodies.
If it is possible, what would a body cost?
If it is not possible, what would the moulds cost?
Paul
As carbon technology advances and production is ramped up it will become cheaper.
Personally I would not want to see the weave on the whole body but only on 'highlights'.
If the major manufacturers could achieve a 10% weight saving with very few changes other than in materials, they would jump at it. As weight reduces, handling dynamics improve.
I know we have to be realistic and the Factory has limited resources, but I don't think that fitting 1000hp engine in an Ultima is the answer. That sort of power in a road car with no driver aids is an accident waiting to happen IMO (track car - fine).
All the different opinions and thoughts on this thread show there may be a demand, if it could be achieved at a reasonable price.
Paul
Personally I would not want to see the weave on the whole body but only on 'highlights'.
If the major manufacturers could achieve a 10% weight saving with very few changes other than in materials, they would jump at it. As weight reduces, handling dynamics improve.
I know we have to be realistic and the Factory has limited resources, but I don't think that fitting 1000hp engine in an Ultima is the answer. That sort of power in a road car with no driver aids is an accident waiting to happen IMO (track car - fine).
All the different opinions and thoughts on this thread show there may be a demand, if it could be achieved at a reasonable price.
Paul
gt5594 said:
I requested that the factory make us a special GTR lightweight body back in 2013, and Ted very kindly produced one, he said the first one made, although I think he's produced another one since. The factory were very helpful indeed at the time, but then they always are..
It's still completely manufactured in fibreglass, with all the appropriate structural strengthening where it needs to be. The body is not the easiest thing to weigh accurately, but would estimate the saving to be about 25kg - which is very significant to me.
Given the big weight saving, the body finish and fit is excellent, certainly just as good looking and well made as our other body
Personally I just don't like the look of carbon fibre weave, but everyone is different...
Mentioning this to remind folks to just "ask the factory", they've been perfecting stuff over many years and seem to have looked at most things before, not caught them out yet.
Interesting.It's still completely manufactured in fibreglass, with all the appropriate structural strengthening where it needs to be. The body is not the easiest thing to weigh accurately, but would estimate the saving to be about 25kg - which is very significant to me.
Given the big weight saving, the body finish and fit is excellent, certainly just as good looking and well made as our other body
Personally I just don't like the look of carbon fibre weave, but everyone is different...
Mentioning this to remind folks to just "ask the factory", they've been perfecting stuff over many years and seem to have looked at most things before, not caught them out yet.
Are you mounting the rear wing? Will the rear clip be strong enough at that point (you can get stress cracks in the gel coat).
Curious as to why you asked the Factory for a light weight body too?
Paul
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