Long front wishbones available now at The Ultima factory
Discussion
I have been having a long chat with Richard about converting my car to the long wishbone type as used by the record car. My car is an older car built at the same time as Trevors and the record car and has alot of development options not seen nowadays such as anti roll bars and different exhaust headers, opened air ducts etc, so a little bit special.
Today The Ultima Factory have emailed me some prices, which i feel is worth sharing with everyone on here as it has been on some wish lists talked about on other posts.
Stig i dont know how to add this to the Factory options sticky, and i hope im not breaking any rules by sharing out this info. i was sent to me privately and im sharing it.
The Ultima factory are now happy to supply the longer wishbones for a new build and for excisting customers to convert to, but it will be a rose joint setup not bush, so if you are bushed, rose joints will need to be added... All prices are excluding vat.
Excisting build
Extended front upper and lower rosejoint wishbones £390.00
Upper and lower ball joint set £84.00
Special steering arms - pair £98.00
Tie rod extended 2off £84.00
Dowel pin £0.76
Outer wheel rim 2off £394.00
Inner wheel rim 2off £368.00
Wheel O-ring 4off £8.00
SUB TOTAL £1,426.76
VAT @ 20.00% £285.35
TOTAL VALUE £1,712.11
New build
Extended front upper and lower rosejoint wishbones EXTRA COST £-
Upper and lower ball joint set EXTRA COST £-
Special steering arms - pair EXTRA COST £34.00
Tie rod extended 2off EXTRA COST £-
Dowel pin EXTRA COST £-
Outer wheel rim 2off EXTRA COST £-
Inner wheel rim 2off EXTRA COST £-
Wheel O-ring 4off EXTRA COST £-
SUB TOTAL £34.00
VAT @ 20.00% £6.80
TOTAL VALUE £40.80
Richard also wanted to explain to me some questions i had relating to the wishbones and wheels on our demo car the Ultima GTR720- so i thought seeing as its a hot subject on another post id share his answer with you all.
The factory are constantly trying different ideas that might improve the Ultima in terms of performance, road manners or ease of build many of which prove to be ineffectual and are therefore abandoned.
Longer wishbones with longer track rods and different wheel offsets were tried on the demo GTR to determine what affect they had.
The resulting test concluded that there was no difference to performance, cornering, lap time or steering feedback when compared with the standard front suspension so these tests were terminated.
Had there been an improvement in any of the performance criteria then rest assured that the factory would have added this set up to the option list.
Having invested in a set of longer wishbones, steering tie rods and two sets of different wheels the decision was made to leave this set up on the car for an extended period to investigate if there was any difference in tyre wear.
There has been no recorded difference on this score either but we thought that due to the cost of the different parts we might as well leave this set up on this car for the time being.
Over the years we have come to the conclusion that there is only one way to prove or disprove theory in design and that is to go out and try it in a road environment where our cars spend the majority of their time or against the stopwatch, which we have repeatedly carried out with world record achieving results.
There are many enthusiasts and ‘would be’ sports car manufacturers worldwide that appear to specialise in making wild unsubstantiated claims on forums about their unfinished projects without any back up whatsoever.
“When the flag drops the bulls
t stops,” says it all.
All Ultima lap times and performance figures are independently verified and recorded using GPS and video evidence.
So guys, here they are.... You wanted them, and our makers have been listening. The option you have all been talking about for years...
Dom
Today The Ultima Factory have emailed me some prices, which i feel is worth sharing with everyone on here as it has been on some wish lists talked about on other posts.
Stig i dont know how to add this to the Factory options sticky, and i hope im not breaking any rules by sharing out this info. i was sent to me privately and im sharing it.
The Ultima factory are now happy to supply the longer wishbones for a new build and for excisting customers to convert to, but it will be a rose joint setup not bush, so if you are bushed, rose joints will need to be added... All prices are excluding vat.
Excisting build
Extended front upper and lower rosejoint wishbones £390.00
Upper and lower ball joint set £84.00
Special steering arms - pair £98.00
Tie rod extended 2off £84.00
Dowel pin £0.76
Outer wheel rim 2off £394.00
Inner wheel rim 2off £368.00
Wheel O-ring 4off £8.00
SUB TOTAL £1,426.76
VAT @ 20.00% £285.35
TOTAL VALUE £1,712.11
New build
Extended front upper and lower rosejoint wishbones EXTRA COST £-
Upper and lower ball joint set EXTRA COST £-
Special steering arms - pair EXTRA COST £34.00
Tie rod extended 2off EXTRA COST £-
Dowel pin EXTRA COST £-
Outer wheel rim 2off EXTRA COST £-
Inner wheel rim 2off EXTRA COST £-
Wheel O-ring 4off EXTRA COST £-
SUB TOTAL £34.00
VAT @ 20.00% £6.80
TOTAL VALUE £40.80
Richard also wanted to explain to me some questions i had relating to the wishbones and wheels on our demo car the Ultima GTR720- so i thought seeing as its a hot subject on another post id share his answer with you all.
The factory are constantly trying different ideas that might improve the Ultima in terms of performance, road manners or ease of build many of which prove to be ineffectual and are therefore abandoned.
Longer wishbones with longer track rods and different wheel offsets were tried on the demo GTR to determine what affect they had.
The resulting test concluded that there was no difference to performance, cornering, lap time or steering feedback when compared with the standard front suspension so these tests were terminated.
Had there been an improvement in any of the performance criteria then rest assured that the factory would have added this set up to the option list.
Having invested in a set of longer wishbones, steering tie rods and two sets of different wheels the decision was made to leave this set up on the car for an extended period to investigate if there was any difference in tyre wear.
There has been no recorded difference on this score either but we thought that due to the cost of the different parts we might as well leave this set up on this car for the time being.
Over the years we have come to the conclusion that there is only one way to prove or disprove theory in design and that is to go out and try it in a road environment where our cars spend the majority of their time or against the stopwatch, which we have repeatedly carried out with world record achieving results.
There are many enthusiasts and ‘would be’ sports car manufacturers worldwide that appear to specialise in making wild unsubstantiated claims on forums about their unfinished projects without any back up whatsoever.
“When the flag drops the bulls
t stops,” says it all. All Ultima lap times and performance figures are independently verified and recorded using GPS and video evidence.
So guys, here they are.... You wanted them, and our makers have been listening. The option you have all been talking about for years...
Dom
Edited by V8Dom on Thursday 2nd April 11:11
dandare said:
Am I missing something? Why are the longer wishbones being offered if they don't do anything?
because the forums have been asking about them and if available... there have been suggestions it stops bump steer, improves driving on the roads with kumos, and inproves the driving due to the steering arms being longer too... ive asked and the factory have agreed to produce themrunning long wishbones will mean the front wheel pivots in the centre of the tyre too, which will make differences in steering and handling due to the Ackerman Steering angles
im ordering them as i want to increase the width of my front wheels to run 285 or 295 front tyres like the time attack car. i love the grip of the kumo but not the road manners.
Ive been in Martins car many times, the steering is neutral, front grip incredible and because of the bigger width wheels toyo r888 is an option all round... and the entry speed into corners is quite staggering.. but thats personal experiance.
Storer said:
The answer to the question 'why sell them' is simple.
The customer is always right.
If you want to spend some money on something you think will improve your car then I am sure the Factory will be happy to assist. No skin off their nose as it is not detrimental to the car, and they are in business to make money.
Paul
do you have them already on yours Paul?The customer is always right.
If you want to spend some money on something you think will improve your car then I am sure the Factory will be happy to assist. No skin off their nose as it is not detrimental to the car, and they are in business to make money.
Paul
deadscoob said:
So on one side we have the factory saying they make no tangible difference, on the other side we have a few customers who say they do.
Who is correct?
Perhaps a simple yes/no for the below as a starter:
Will they reduce bump steer (and on kumhos too)
Will they reduce steering effort
Will they allow wider tyres without increasing bump steer or effort
Will they increase front end grip on standard size tyres
Dom, are longer wishbones the only difference from standard on the front of Martins?
i think they will as the arc of the steering rack end will be less rather than servere like our are now. we have bump steer as the suspension moves a certain distance and the small length trackrod arms move at large angles.....lengthening these arms and the suspension will lessen the angles imo .. when i had dunlop front tyres i did have alot of noticeable pump steer unless i ran my anti roll bars..fitting kumo tyres highlighted a steering problem for me and possibly others...(we have to remember it was Charles Dunn that came up with the idea of the slotted rack and it wasnt in the build manual or setup instruction available until recently) ive just fitted mitchelin tyres which are far better than the pirelli ive tried or dunlops and in the rain fantastic, BUT i want front end grip back, as the kumo did give more confidense within the corner, it was just dangerous in a straightline or on bumpy roads.Who is correct?
Perhaps a simple yes/no for the below as a starter:
Will they reduce bump steer (and on kumhos too)
Will they reduce steering effort
Will they allow wider tyres without increasing bump steer or effort
Will they increase front end grip on standard size tyres
Dom, are longer wishbones the only difference from standard on the front of Martins?
I think it will improve
yes, also as the wheel now centres in the centre, the front wheels wont hit the headlight covers
i dont think they will increase front end grip on their own... but it will allow the suspension to work on a bumpy road as the shock will travel more for a given distance of the wheel moving up and down, meaning settings will be more accurate and noticeable. what i dont know is if you need a slightly heavier spring?
no.. the front suspension has stengthening bars on the mounts, the car has flat floor and aero but that doesnt work until higher speeds..... and he runs different shocks.....he also runs 295 width front tyres too..:0) but the difference is entry speed is higher and corner speed very planted where mine will under steer if pushed and only over steering with my right foot .. also with the big tyres steering isnt like cornering in a truck without power steering. its not light so your power steering will be useful, but i prefer feedback in the steering so if i had fitted P/S I would switch it off after 10mph
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