Hi end home cinema speaker recommendations

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

The system I have so far includes 2x Audiolab 8000m, an Audiolab 8000c, and a Tag Mclaren AV32R.

I need to acquire a speaker set up for this, and the room it is all in is about 14x14. I shall be looking to source on eBay, as many expenses to fund at the mo, including our wedding in August!

So far I have established some packages to look at, namely:

Q Acoustics Q7000, like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381714690037?_trksid=p20... - except 5.1

Kef KHT2005, like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381713719058?_trksid=p20... - except again 5.1

B&W MT25, like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322440918641?_trksid=p20...

Or a Kef R100 package like this - http://www.whathifi.com/kef/r100-51/review
(no ebay examples for sale)

Another (possible) consideration is that whatever I source needs thin/ flat cables, as A) the cables are going to go under a wooden floor, and cables going up to the speakers shall have to be hidden by channeling in to the walls, then plastering over (and Victorian bricks, which are virtually impossible to drill in to!)

Finally, the system also includes some large floor standers, used for music, so speakers (except the centre and sub) need to be compact)

Any advice/thoughts/suggestions welcome.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Wednesday 22 March 23:24

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Hi TR.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

What I would be interested on an opinion on, without taking anything away from how good your Sony processor probably is, and without wanting to sound elitist is would, in your opinion, these be a high enough calibre to pair with the Tag processor I have?

To elaborate, when it was out it cost circa £2800. It cost me under a grand second hand, yet it is still considered that you'd need to spend an awful lot to better it today. Are the speakers good enough for it essentially? I don't want to be thinking that more could be achieved for spending a bit more/ spending more time auditioning.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Quite a bit to digest there gents, many thanks, I'll read in more depth later.

A few points to respond to some:

I thought (from sight) that the AV32R had connections on it for all 6 speakers?
The fronts (for music) are Mission 752 Freedoms (love them) I wasn't aware that there is a way to piggy back these for use with the AV?
Budget is £1000 max (second hand) I appreciate the system can take (and deserves) better, but this shall have to be an upgrade for down the line. Also when we have more space!
Speaker size is a SERIOUS consideration, if the OH is to agree to the aesthetic angle.

Edit, another thought. Understanding that the centre works the hardest I would seriously consider an A1 centre (I like some of Kef's amongst others) of any size, and keep the others more compact.
Love this model - http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/kef-r600c-centre-spea...

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 23 March 19:39

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Mr_Yogi said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Quite a bit to digest there gents, many thanks, I'll read in more depth later.

A few points to respond to some:

I thought (from sight) that the AV32R had connections on it for all 6 speakers?
The fronts (for music) are Mission 752 Freedoms (love them) I wasn't aware that there is a way to piggy back these for use with the AV?
Budget is £1000 max (second hand) I appreciate the system can take (and deserves) better, but this shall have to be an upgrade for down the line. Also when we have more space!
Speaker size is a SERIOUS consideration, if the OH is to agree to the aesthetic angle.

Edit, another thought. Understanding that the centre works the hardest I would seriously consider an A1 centre (I like some of Kef's amongst others) of any size, and keep the others more compact.
Love this model - http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/kef-r600c-centre-spea...

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 23 March 19:39

The AV32R is just a processor/ pre-amp, it has no amplification. So you need amps for each channel appart from the sub which are generally active (have their own built in amp).

I used 752 Freedoms with my TAG (AV32R) setup and it sounded good. In an AV setup it's important to keep the front 3 channels voiced similar, so it might be worth while looking out for a Mission 75C or 78C to complement your 752s. I wouldn't mix a KEF (quite bright, metal tweeter) centre with the Mission fronts, it will sound very odd. For rears you could find some old Mission bookshelfs (760, 761, etc.) to tide you over.

You will need power amps, either another mono or a stereo (just use 1 channel) for the centre speaker and a stereo amp for the rears. The alternative is get a 5 or 7 channel power amp, something like the NAD 925 or T955 which are good for music? I used a NAD T975 for a bit which was nice. Then you could sell on the audiolab stuff.

That's a big help to know, thanks. Basically the same set up as my old Yamaha. She'll be pleased, less speakers, and I'm pleased as the 752's will handle the front nicely! I'll look at 78c's initially. So, anyone any suggestions for some good rears and a sub?

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

karma mechanic said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

That's a big help to know, thanks. Basically the same set up as my old Yamaha. She'll be pleased, less speakers, and I'm pleased as the 752's will handle the front nicely! I'll look at 78c's initially. So, anyone any suggestions for some good rears and a sub?

My sub is a BK XXLS400-DF, and I'm very pleased with it. Well-integrated for music but can still make bits of the house rattle when required. DF is the down-firing version, FF has the driver pointing outwards.
http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400DF.h...
(Very compact for a sub this good)

Interesting....

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Thank you all for the education. I'm a little out of the game, so it is a learning curve.

One thing for sure is that Sarah's going to be pissed to hear that I need more mono-blocks! At least the cost of these (about £500 a pair for the British - superior to the Chinese made -) M's shall be covered by being able to use the 752's to the front.

This afternoon I'm going to pop to see Andy at Nottingham hi-fi centre to get his recommendations too. What they don't know isn't worth knowing IME.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

The existing kit is staying. I've always wanted a Tag/Audiolab set up (since I worked at Nottm Hifi Centre 21 years ago!) and I've spent a lot of time sourcing it all.

the kit in question so far

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Friday 24th March 12:59

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

legzr1 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

The existing kit is staying. I've always wanted a Tag/Audiolab set up (since I worked at Nottm Hifi Centre 21 years ago!) and I've spent a lot of time sourcing it all.

Then you'll have a redundant stereo only preamp...

Simplest thing to do is source a decent sub and go 2.1 for a while to see how you get on - the scale and depth added matters more to me than any surround effect.

If the 8000c is the one thing culled to get it right I'll live with that.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

OK, an update, having been to Nottm hifi centre. They suggested an amp called the Arcam P429, as it is 4 channel. This would mean it can serve 2x rear and centre, leaving the 8000m's to drive the 752's. A very considered cost at £1600.
The other alternative is to acquire 3 more 8000m's. Cheaper at probably £750, but that would be 5x monoblocks, Sarah would love that! (she may just have to lump it.)
Rears, they suggested that B&W M1's or Kef E301's would be fine, as would my existing Celestion Little Ones, due to the limited work they do. Obviously, put them on the front and you'd notice their limitations.
Centre, he suggested the Kef 301, which I need to research, not sure. I think he was trying to work within budget, aiming for the best for the money. I personally am leaning more to a second hand Mission 78c, to match the 752's sound style.
Oh, and I bought an active sub, a KEF Q400B, £300 reduced from £500, and they've bought the last stock.
The 8000c as others have informed me, shall now be redundant, with the AV32 taking it's place. If anyone wants it (mint condition, British made not Chinese example) for £250 (what I bought it for) then let me know.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

TonyRPH said:

I'm fascinated by the apparent price fixing on hifi equipment.

I looked at several dealer websites, and every one of then had the amp for £1599.

One would almost suspect there is a cartel...

@OP - I guess you plan is to use one of the monoblocks for the centre channel then?

Regarding that Arcam amp - reading the marketing blurb they rave on about "class g" as if it was something new.

The NAD2200 (+ other NAD amps) have used class g since the 80's and it was originally developed by Hitachi IIRC.

Class G is also not known for extremely low levels of distortion, due to commutation effects in the design (it basically switches between power supply rails according to power output demand).

If going down the monoblock route it shall be 5 in total, one for each speaker, except the sub which is active.

All I'm concerned about is if it sounds good, which according to reviews I've read suggest it should, as would the mono block option I'd say.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Mr_Yogi said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

If going down the monoblock route it shall be 5 in total, one for each speaker, except the sub which is active.

All I'm concerned about is if it sounds good, which according to reviews I've read suggest it should, as would the mono block option I'd say.

5 monos is surely overkill, there is no need for monos for the rears. Just get any Audiolab stereo power amp. I think I would rather biamp my fronts with 4 8000Ms before I used mono's for the rears

BTW just been able to see your photos, is that AV32R a DP, noticed the Avant Garde badging? If so that will sound epic, do not be tempted to chuck it in for an AVR. However 250MRs or 8000MB's could be considered?

I'm not sure what the DP refers to, but it is an Avant Garde, yes. Andy at Nottm Hifi centre considers (and he used to sell them) that the Tag's processing capabilities will still hold their own against ANYTHING on sale today.

Rather liked a nice £10000 pair of KEFs they had in there, but £10K, on a pair of speakers, car money that! I'll look at the regular power amp comment, hadn't thought, of course, two channel.

Edit. Surely I need three channels (NHFC said I'd need 3x 8000M's if going down this route) do any Audiolab power amps support 3 channels? An M-PWR?

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Friday 24th March 21:57

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

bazza. said:

I use ATC myself and powered from a ATC amp

Like it. Were the flowers your wifes touch, to appease her?

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Would this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiolab-8000X7-/2224486... work?

Would it be overkill? consider also that in time (bigger house, + when funds allow) there may in the future be some serious upgrading to the centre and rear speakers.

Bet it shall shoot up in price mind!

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

varsas said:

I had (still have, not in use atm) a full Mission '75' set up, so 752 fronts, 75C centre, 751 rears and 75AS subwoofer.

The 75C was the standout, it's a really nice speaker and partners the 752's very well (as you'd imagine). Speech was so clear and delicate through it, but it had weight when needed too. Every bit as lovely as the 752's. It is a bit big though.

751's are good speakers, but actually don't sound that much like a 752 to me. They are also big for rear's, fine for music but for rear's you could probably do as well with something smaller/modern.

75AS wasn't great to be honest. It's unusual shape (it's quite long and thin) helped me hide it but, again, I dare say something modern and modest would outperform it. To be honest it wasn't worlds away from the Yamaha YSP-FSW150 it replaced.

Quick version? Get a 75C to partner your 752's if you can.

Interesting thoughts. Yes, I had considered a 75C, but wondered if the 78C may be more suitable. It could be argued that the 752's and 75C don't do the Tag AV justice, BUT I shall not part with the 752's (may at some point upgrade and use them on another set up) so if the 75C is the best sonic match for them I'd be silly to not look at them.

Great value too - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mission-75c-Center-Speak...

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Saturday 25th March 17:52

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

gizlaroc said:

I would consider starting over in all honesty, the AV32r was OK 15 years ago, but a bit sharp sounding.

Not going to happen. When you've wanted a Tag /Audiolab set up for 20 years you don't just flog it all at a moments notice.

Back in it's day the majority of users regarded it very highly, a little better than 'OK'. My Yamaha DSP592 was 'OK'. A Sony all in one kit from Dixons is 'OK'. This was nearly £3000 in its day!

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

gizlaroc said:

hyphen said:

How much is it worth today?

About £200.

I just sold a Meridian 568 for £200, which was twice the price of the Tag at the time.

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

You're talking rubbish. I paid much more for it, and I had my eye on them for long enough to know their market value.

You suggest your dislike of it, but then go on to say you found their amps bright (?) sounding? Well, this is subjective. I love the sound the amps give with the 752F's. These speakers are highly detailed but soft sounding, maybe that balances out the 'brightness' you elude to, or maybe different ears like different sounds.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Sunday 26th March 21:10

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

TonyRPH said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

<snip>
This was nearly £3000 in its day!

Technology has moved on massively since then.

Your £3000 today will buy you a decidedly better product IMHO.

It's probably fair to say that there are devices out there in the £1k - £2k price range that'll run rings around the TAG.

IIRC, the "Tag" brand name attracted a tax as well.

Good job I didn't spend £1-2000 on it then. It's an upgrade to a Yamaha DSP592, so in that context I'm sure I'll be delighted with it. RE Tag tax Andy at Nottm HFC said not, that Tag positioned themselves at the same level as Audiolab, but they got their marketing all wrong, going lifestyle (GQ etc) instead of going after hi-fi fans. Apparently spent a fortune on R&D and marketing at the time too.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

scovette said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Interesting thoughts. Yes, I had considered a 75C, but wondered if the 78C may be more suitable. It could be argued that the 752's and 75C don't do the Tag AV justice, BUT I shall not part with the 752's (may at some point upgrade and use them on another set up) so if the 75C is the best sonic match for them I'd be silly to not look at them.

If aesthetics allow, using another 752 as your centre would be the best match.

They really wouldn't, I don't think. Shame, as they're (IMO) criminally cheap right now. I remember What Hi-Fi awarding them best speaker under £1000 on more than one occasion.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

TonyRPH said:

gizlaroc said:

hyphen said:

How much is it worth today?

About £200.

I just sold a Meridian 568 for £200, which was twice the price of the Tag at the time.

£200 a tad low - cheapest I can find on "Buy it now" is this one at ~£430

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Good job I didn't spend £1-2000 on it then. It's an upgrade to a Yamaha DSP592, so in that context I'm sure I'll be delighted with it. RE Tag tax Andy at Nottm HFC said not, that Tag positioned themselves at the same level as Audiolab, but they got their marketing all wrong, going lifestyle (GQ etc) instead of going after hi-fi fans. Apparently spent a fortune on R&D and marketing at the time too.

Understood - also the DSP592 was a relatively low end processor. The DSP-E800 was the one to have back then.

Pricewise TAG placed themselves quite a way above Audiolab pricing IIRC.

Please don't get me wrong; I'm not disputing that the kit is good - all I'm saying is that by way of comparison, most relatively cheap (by comparison to the TAG) current (£500 - £1k) A/V receivers will kick the TAG into touch with regard to processing - however there will always be differences - some will be better with music, others better with surround sound.

Additionally - trying to run a modern HDMI based system with a receiver that has no HDMI facilities can rapidly turn into a frustrating experience.

If your primary focus is music playback then less so - but you will still have lip sync issues when alternating between SD and HD content, and even in some cases across different channels (and certainly different sources).

I know - I ran a NAD T762 (IIRC) for a long time and that was a brilliant receiver, but no HDMI...

In fairness (without wanting to appear pedantic) it's 100%+ out. My earlier recollection of approaching £1000 out was wrong, I'd need to check historical eBay but I think it was actually £600ish, from a dealer, and it is virtually as new cond.

I've quite enjoyed the Yamaha. I also really enjoyed a Celestion centre, it really gave some clout, and great detail. NHFC suggested it shall make a nice pre-amp, and were knowledgeable about the model, with some great insights. I hear that modern kit for similar, or a bit more £ can equal or possibly better it, but consider, this is a set up I've long wanted, and I want as much matching (boxes wise) as possible.

The way to maybe look at it; 'You' want an E-Type. Modern stuff has overtaken it in many ways. But it still wont be crap. You'll still love it. This is where I'm at with my Tag/AL set up. Maybe if buying an E-Type you tried a top of the range F-Type you'd then be underwhelmed with the E, but I haven't tried current flagship stuff, or even mid/v good current stuff. Hence, for me, happy days.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Sunday 26th March 22:20

EDIT - the place selling the AV you linked is actually who I bought my TAG CD player from, a really nice bloke/ hi-fi dealer in Germany, a seller I'd happily recommend.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Sunday 26th March 22:24

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

gizlaroc said:

One on eBay last week for £119...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAG-Mclaren-AV32R-sl-bp-...

Feb 2017 at £253....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAG-Mclaren-AV32R-Phono-...



He asked what they were worth now, hence why I said around £200.


I didn't realise you had bought it recently, I thought you had it from back in the day and were looking at a cheap way to get it up and running again, hence linking to the £500 speaker packages.
Sorry if I offended suggesting other ways of getting up and running, I didn't mean to.

Both with faults.

I'm not sure where your piss on his strawberries tone stems from, but it's quite unnecessary. You've dug deeper than I did when checking market rates for them, and I was fairly thorough. They were as rare as rocking horse st when I bought mine.