The Wire - does it ever get going?
Discussion
Now I realise this is tantamount to blaspheming in the Vatican, but what the hell is the deal with the Wire?
Slow isn't the word for (at least) the first 5 episodse of seaon 1 (that's how far I've got), I'd call them "glacial"!
I ordered the series from Lovefilm after all of the hype to give me and the OH something to watch together, but with limited viewing time available, watching 5 hours with little progress in the plot is taking the p!ss a bit.
It's not as if they're developing the characters in all that time either, if you actually pay attention to how it's shot (I've started to out of boredom), a lot of the screen time is taken up with lengthy (and time wasting) panning shots to and from characters before you even see a character, let alone learn anything about them. Each scene has a lengthy intro like that - even if it's an environment (e.g. cop's office or the Towers) that you've seen dozens of times before.
Plus it's showing its age now - the cops in the first series are using typewriters FFS! Yes, I know it's supposed to be showing that they're underfunded, but that's a bit of a stretch.
Surely it can't just be me that's finding it so hard to get into this show?
Slow isn't the word for (at least) the first 5 episodse of seaon 1 (that's how far I've got), I'd call them "glacial"!
I ordered the series from Lovefilm after all of the hype to give me and the OH something to watch together, but with limited viewing time available, watching 5 hours with little progress in the plot is taking the p!ss a bit.
It's not as if they're developing the characters in all that time either, if you actually pay attention to how it's shot (I've started to out of boredom), a lot of the screen time is taken up with lengthy (and time wasting) panning shots to and from characters before you even see a character, let alone learn anything about them. Each scene has a lengthy intro like that - even if it's an environment (e.g. cop's office or the Towers) that you've seen dozens of times before.
Plus it's showing its age now - the cops in the first series are using typewriters FFS! Yes, I know it's supposed to be showing that they're underfunded, but that's a bit of a stretch.
Surely it can't just be me that's finding it so hard to get into this show?
Understanding what they're saying isn't a problem, it's just that it takes so long for anything to happen. Like I said, I'm 5 hours in and all that's happened is getting to know the characters and pretty minor office/department politics.
I think people must be looking back on the whole show with rose tinted glasses and haven't watched the early episodes recently, as if this had started on tv last month at S1 E1, there's no way I would have bothered to tune in past episode 3, let alone push on through to the next season and I'm a big fan of US shows.
As for the typewriters, I worked as an auditor 9 years ago and so got to see a wide variety of offices, including some that were pretty down market and dated; not once did I see a type writer!
I think people must be looking back on the whole show with rose tinted glasses and haven't watched the early episodes recently, as if this had started on tv last month at S1 E1, there's no way I would have bothered to tune in past episode 3, let alone push on through to the next season and I'm a big fan of US shows.
As for the typewriters, I worked as an auditor 9 years ago and so got to see a wide variety of offices, including some that were pretty down market and dated; not once did I see a type writer!
sleep envy said:
maybe if you concentrated on the plot rather than worrying about the typewriters you might enjoy it more 
What plot?! All that's happened in the 5 hours I've watched so far is as follows:[Spoilers below]
- mid level, but connected, gangster from a ghetto gets away with a murder charge as witness are intimidated by his gang, which p!sses a judge off.
- one witness who isn't intimidated is killed a few weeks later.
- maverick cop knows judge and wants to take down the whole gang that gangster belongs to - pulls strings to get judge to push police department to investigate.
- police department mightily p!ssed off with having to investigate "just another" murder in the ghetto and that the maverick cop is pulling the strings, so throw as little as possible at the investigation to make it seem like they're doing something.
- we find out a bit more about the day to day lives of the mix of no-hoper and promising cops that are assigned to the case as well as a bit more about the gangsters.
5 hours for that! That's three average length films just for the above!
I may be from generation X, but I like to think I have a longer attention span than most, and I'm more motivated than most to watch this kind of series as I'm a big fan of the US, but even I am very close to throwing in the towel. I pretty much had to force my OH to watch the last episode and she's showing no inclination to watch the next.
redtwin said:
youngsyr said:
As for the typewriters, I worked as an auditor 9 years ago and so got to see a wide variety of offices, including some that were pretty down market and dated; not once did I see a type writer!
How many of those offices were in the Baltimore police department?.The show is universally lauded for its realism, if you saw them using typewriters on the show then you can reasonably expect that typewriters were being used in real life. It will hardly be the case that the show's producers cut the budget tight and couldn't afford to have a PC as a prop.
As for it being slow, again that is part of the realism. The majority of murder and narcotic cases are not solved in an hour or a day or even a week. There are lots of other options out there if you are only interested in shootouts and car chases, they won't have any bearing on reality whatsoever though.
If I were that bothered about realism, I could go and sit in my local police station for 5 hours. I suspect more would happen there than on the show too!
shirt said:
which one is that [youtube link?]. one of the versions was amazing but i haven't watched them in a while.
for the OP - i was reminded of the wire on reading the criticisms of tinker tailor solider spy on that film's thread. you either like slow burning, thought provoking drama that makes you earn the payoff, or you like force fed obvious tv like CSI. which is it for you?
I don't watch CSI, so couldn't really say. Two examples of shows that I've really enjoyed are Dexter and Spartacus, which both have stories that evolve, twist and turn and generally play out over a series. However, both of those have episodes which are in themselves discreet mini-stories, all of which contribute to the overall plot of the series, and you come away from watching each satisfied that the story has moved along and eager to find out what happens next. for the OP - i was reminded of the wire on reading the criticisms of tinker tailor solider spy on that film's thread. you either like slow burning, thought provoking drama that makes you earn the payoff, or you like force fed obvious tv like CSI. which is it for you?
With the Wire, it feels like you're watching a 10 year old, 12 hour episode, that just happens to be broken into hour long slots.
As I said in the opening post, it's not like all of the screen time is even taken up with developing the plot or the characters, a lot of it just seems to me to be filler - overly long panning of the environment, etc.
davepoth said:
To the OP, nothing in the series is filler in the conventional sense. All of the slow panning shots do actually serve to tell a bit of the story, rather than just being there to make it easier for the network to wedge the adverts in.
I've been wondering in the back of my mind why the episodes are an hour long when all other US shows are c.50 minutes, is it because when it originally aired they cut out 10 minutes per show for adverts?This would make sense to me, there are easily 10 minutes in most episodes that could be cut out with damaging the story line (as far as I can tell with the story to date).
Watched episode 6 last night: 6 hours in and still no real progress in the overall plot, although we got to know a lot of the "minor" characters a bit better.
I don't disagree that the acting is superb, or that it smacks of realism, but good acting and realism is rarely enough to make me sit through 6 hours of tv when viewing time is limited.
I have to laugh at some of the "not appreciating grown-up" drama comments and insinuations though - I've studied foreign language films and novels at degree level, so am more than capable of understanding the qualities of a series. There's a difference between being aware of those qualities and being entertained by them though.
davepoth said:
The abject lack of exposition is what I love the most about it. If a story was worth telling, it was told on screen, rather than just being explained by a character.
[Spoilers below]What, like D'Angelo's first murder?
Or why the old desk bound cop who makes doll's house furniture was on the shelf for over a decade?
Seems to me that there are plenty of pretty key events that are only related to us through dialogue; it just takes several episodes before you're told the complete story.
Clearly there's a lot of love for this series both on here and elsewhere, but I guess it's just not what I'm looking for in a show to sit down and watch with the OH for an hour or two a week.
Have stuck with it so far - it's still moving at a snail's pace, but by now I've got so much time invested in it (11 hours at last count), it's difficult to just write it off and say forget it.
I at least need to know what the outcome is, and there's "only" a maximum of 2 hours left until I find out - if series 1 doesn't tie up everything, I'm going to mightily p!ssed off. I doubt I'll bother with S2 onwards.
Don't get me wrong - it's got some great acting and some reasonable characters in it, I just find the pace of it annoying. Seems to me that there's a lot of pointless filler, which adds absolutely nothing to the plot or characterisation - torturously slow panning shots of environment, etc.
One of the latest episodes I watched took around 10 seconds to follow a wire from a telegraph poll into a room - I got the message after two seconds - the property's inhabitants were jacking electricity off of the grid. The remaining 8 seconds was just drawing it out and added absolutely nothing. This happens time and time again each episode.
I at least need to know what the outcome is, and there's "only" a maximum of 2 hours left until I find out - if series 1 doesn't tie up everything, I'm going to mightily p!ssed off. I doubt I'll bother with S2 onwards.
Don't get me wrong - it's got some great acting and some reasonable characters in it, I just find the pace of it annoying. Seems to me that there's a lot of pointless filler, which adds absolutely nothing to the plot or characterisation - torturously slow panning shots of environment, etc.
One of the latest episodes I watched took around 10 seconds to follow a wire from a telegraph poll into a room - I got the message after two seconds - the property's inhabitants were jacking electricity off of the grid. The remaining 8 seconds was just drawing it out and added absolutely nothing. This happens time and time again each episode.
Mojooo said:
From what I remember you wont really get closure on S1 until S3.
If you think S1 drags then you might as well throw S2 in the bin.
Jesus Christ - how anyone can justify taking nearly 40 hours to tell this story I do not know! Yes, it's slightly more complicated than the typical "drug gang" crime story and it does go into the detail of a lot of characters, but 40 hours? Really??If you think S1 drags then you might as well throw S2 in the bin.
I've got the final disc for S1 on order from Lovefilm, so we'll watch that at some point over the next few weeks and then make a call on season 2. If it doesn't wrap up S1 pretty neatly though I doubt we'll bother ordering season 2 and I'll just read the plot synopsis and save myself the 25 hours or so. I just don't think I can handle any more staring at the same buildings, office interior or that bloody orange sofa!!
Shay HTFC said:
...
Like the jacked electricity being panned across for 10 seconds... everyone knew what was coming, but its nice to be held in that suspense where you have no choice but to wait and get fully immersed.
Now this is what I really don't get - how can you become "immersed" in anything by looking at a piece of cable for 10 seconds? Like the jacked electricity being panned across for 10 seconds... everyone knew what was coming, but its nice to be held in that suspense where you have no choice but to wait and get fully immersed.
Perhaps it's because I've seen several US "projects" (run down estates) in real life, I've read a bit about US drug gangs and so have an idea of what they're like and I can easily imagine the kind of stuff that happens there.
It's just not new to me and doesn't surprise or shock me, I don't need 10 seconds of focussing on one aspect to immerse myself in a scene.
I guess this is also what let the jacked wire slow pan (and similar scenes) down in my eyes - it led into a room with the early teen kid living in a squalid dump and looking after the younger kids - I guess it's hard to feel suspense when what occurs afterwards doesn't surprise you in the least and this happens over and over.
sleep envy said:
Bird did it, who got shot by Omar who got bum aids from Bubs and died
there, you don't need to watch another episode now
Says a lot that you can (even if it's in jest) sum up several hours of the show in one short sentence.there, you don't need to watch another episode now
What's even more depressing is that I already know the first part without even watching the final 2 hours of season 1.
Thom987 said:
Bubbs actually said "Thin line between heaven and here", but we wont split hairs.
The Wire is the best TV ever. It is not up for debate. I had to go back and watch seasons 1-3 again after seeing this thread, though season 2 is maybe a bit weak. The OP doesnt get it, thats all. No big deal. There is always Eastenders and Coronation St for people like that.
No point in even mentioning The Corner to him.
ETA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sgj78QG9Bg 9:45
Again with the veiled insults - why?The Wire is the best TV ever. It is not up for debate. I had to go back and watch seasons 1-3 again after seeing this thread, though season 2 is maybe a bit weak. The OP doesnt get it, thats all. No big deal. There is always Eastenders and Coronation St for people like that.
No point in even mentioning The Corner to him.
ETA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sgj78QG9Bg 9:45
You could be forgiven for thinking that the Wire is a case of the Emperor's New Clothes: it certainly is different to the normal cop show and it seems to me that several of the people who claim to love it feel themselves to be superior to those who say they don't.
The repeated use of "not getting it" points me in this direction too - there's a difference between not understanding a programme and not liking it, a nuance that seems to be lost on these kind of posters.
Indeed, some people seem to see the fact that they like the Wire as a badge of honour, weird really. If you think that watching(/enduring?) self-indulgent, gratuitous panning shots, over and over again in a show for which you have to sit through at least 5 hours before you really "get it" on any level makes you somehow better/more intelligent/superior to others, then well done you.
There are other series that have pretty much all of the selling points that you mention for The Wire, Spartacus and Dexter immediately spring to mind, and I've watched many of those episodes back to back in tv marathons late into the night. The difference with those series is that they never felt like a grind to watch.
Fans of The Wire seem to see the slow pace and focussing on the (overly IMO) intricate details as adding realism, but if I want realism I watch a documentary, or read a non-fiction book on the subject (both of which I quite often do).
If I watch fiction, especially a cop show, realism isn't my primary concern: I expect to be entertained first and foremost, not forced to undertake a test of endurance for next to no pay-off, just because that's more "real".
Fans of The Wire seem to see the slow pace and focussing on the (overly IMO) intricate details as adding realism, but if I want realism I watch a documentary, or read a non-fiction book on the subject (both of which I quite often do).
If I watch fiction, especially a cop show, realism isn't my primary concern: I expect to be entertained first and foremost, not forced to undertake a test of endurance for next to no pay-off, just because that's more "real".
Edited by youngsyr on Tuesday 18th October 10:21
Halb said:
Dibble said:
I love the gallows humour in it, and of course I can identify with the grunts railing against the management. The way the politics runs through everything for the real benefit of a very few and the detriment of the majority.
I found the stat fiddling thing amusing in the first two series, but the politics has cranked up considerably in the third, we have an insight to the commissioners meetings, and it's all just games! Dropping Majors because the points are up. It's like they don't care what crime is actually happening so long as the perception is of it going down.It's bad enough in the UK and America is probably the most superficial culture on the planet; it's well known that politics there, more than anywhere else, is all about perception. Just look at Obama's election!
walm said:
youngsyr said:
You could be forgiven for thinking that the Wire is a case of the Emperor's New Clothes: it certainly is different to the normal cop show and it seems to me that several of the people who claim to love it feel themselves to be superior to those who say they don't.
I think the superiority and smugness from Wire fans is simply because IT IS HARD WORK.You have to invest some time at the beginning remembering names, attempting to understand a virtually different language, pre-existing relationships that aren't explained, the hardship of some long panning shots etc...
So for those who have made the investment and found it a very fulfilling show as a result they feel pretty vindicated for time well spent.
If you watch, say, Hawaii-5-0 where the characters are one-dimensional and plots are wrapped up in one episode, then sure that can be time well spent too but you haven't exactly put much effort in.
I think it is simply that effort-reward pay-off works for so many that The Wire became legendary.
Clearly, this isn't for everyone.
...
It doesn't take a genius to understand the plot of The Wire, the quality of the acting, its screenplay, unsually high number of characters explored and so on and it's more than possible to be just as aware of all of those aspects of it and still not enjoy it.
I've had to explain many of the subtle elements of the plot to my girlfriend (who hasn't paid as much as attention to it as me), e.g. Greggs' reaction on realising that Omar had manipulated her and the department to get Savino out of the picture so he could confront Wee-Bey and Stinkum on more even terms, so it's not like I haven't made the investment and paid attention.
I just feel the pay-off doesn't warrant the investment, and therefore I don't understand why those who have made the investment and ultimately enjoyed it feel smug or superior. IMO, they're not better than those who don't enjoy it, they just have different tastes.
Halb said:
youngsyr said:
Is that really news to anyone though? What did you expect?
Yes it's news to me, I'm not a copper, but the degree and openness of it was shocking.Spartacus is good, but it needs buffing with explicit violence and tits'n'ass, it's more very good B list. I have not seen Dexter, the trailers did not draw me in.
papercup said:
You just compared Dexter and Spartacus, both fun shows but with as much depth as a fag paper, with The Wire?
Christ.
This is why people are saying you should give up because you don't get it. You never will.
You genuinely believe that Lucretia or Batiatus' characters, to name just two of the supporting characters in Spartacus, have the depth of "fag paper" in comparison to supporting characters such as Bubbs or Daniels in the Wire? Christ.
This is why people are saying you should give up because you don't get it. You never will.
I disagree.
There are also plot twists in both of the series I mentioned that are absolutely superb:
- Dexter's wife
- Spartacus and Ilithyia
... to name just two.
Edited by youngsyr on Tuesday 18th October 15:26
freecar said:
Have you finished all five seasons of the wire then?
If not then I doubt you can properly make comparisons to the characters when you haven't seen the entire character arc.
FWIW I don't think you'll ever get the wire so give up, TBH I think even if you sat watching them you've invested so much in not liking it that you'll not change your mind.
I clearly haven't seen all five seasons, but then my entire point is that if it takes 60 hours plus of screen time to get to know the characters, then that's a failing in and of itself.If not then I doubt you can properly make comparisons to the characters when you haven't seen the entire character arc.
FWIW I don't think you'll ever get the wire so give up, TBH I think even if you sat watching them you've invested so much in not liking it that you'll not change your mind.
It wouldn't be so bad if the majority of the time you were actually getting to know the characters, but as I keep repeating, a lot of it is torturous and irrelevant filler without even a character being on screen.
Let's not forget: this is a TV show, after all!
monthefish said:
Did the OP ever get into this?
(I echo his sentiments from the first page entirely.)
Nope, finished the first series (and felt very let down by the ending, IIRC) and then read the plot of the second series on Wiki. Couldn't summon the motivation to start the second series.(I echo his sentiments from the first page entirely.)
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff