Do you have a problem with the Super Rich in UK?

[boombastictiger]

So basically i watched a program on bbc called 'The Super Rich and Us', and i was pretty shocked to see how some people hate the rich, for being rich! I am not rich by any means (i plan to be one day), yet i do not have a problem with the rich, and i do not agree that they should pay extortionally more in tax or give their money away to others.

I work hard, try not to be lazy and am pushing to create the opportunity for me to make that big pay day. I am 30 but started at the bottem working at 15 stacking , studying and working countless jobs to get where i am today. Among the way i have seen some of my friends do really well for themselves and enter that top 5% of earners, whether because they were smarter, took more risks or were in the right place at the right time, i salut them for getting there and do not feel hard done by.

This leads me on to think that If someone has worked hard and risked so much and made millions or billions along the way, why should they be made to pay more in tax than someone who decided to sit and claim benefits, or have children young, or get in debt and have credit cards? So what if they wanted to pass on all their wealth to kids or grandkids through inheritance, what business is it of anyone else.? People have choices, so if you have kids early thats your decision, if you decide to get drunk everyday thats your choice, if you choose not to work thats your choice, if you go home at 5 everyday thats your choice, if you decide not to take risks in work and life or business thats your choice...surely people should live within their means..

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of pistonheaders on this matter as naturally with the cars on sale here there are a lot of rich and a lot of poor...do you feel hard done by? Do you feel the rich should pay more? Do you think the rich should distribute their wealth to the poor? Do you feel the poor need to be quiet and work harder?

Edited by boombastictiger on Saturday 24th January 19:30

Edited by boombastictiger on Sunday 25th January 16:35

Edited by boombastictiger on Sunday 25th January 16:37

[boombastictiger]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Never begrudge anybody else, use it as motivation I say!

I totally agree with this..

[boombastictiger]

trashbat said:

boombastictiger said:

So basically i watched a program on bbc called 'The Super Rich and Us', and i was pretty shocked to see how some people hate the rich, for being rich! I am not rich by any means (i plan to be one day), yet i do not have a problem with the rich, and i do not agree that they should pay extortionally more in tax or give their money away to others.

You might or might not agree with it, but a lot of people's idea of functioning society involves varying dilutions of the principle of, 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need'.

That's Marx, by the way, just to enrage any dozing ultra-capitalists, but you can find it encapsulated in much older ideologies than his - most religions, for instance.

So, should you be lucky to have money falling out of your arse, some of which presumably was directly or indirectly extracted from the less fortunate, what are you going to do with it? Gather it in a pile? What use is that?

And if you say something like, reinvest it in your businesses to further advance society, well you can do that and avoid the taxation.

What i found interesting, yet not too surprising considering there are alot of people sponging on benefits, is that a lot of focus was put on the opinions of people who came out with the story of it being unfair or hard done by because they have been working all their life and hardly had any pay rises. From my experience so far of seeing people around me progress to top positions and pay brackets it is those who are incredibly smart, genius, risk takers or those who work super hard late after normal hours and educate themselves constantly who progress and find opportunities in their life. I think if people really wanted to get rich and make good money they would start living in their means and stop blaming others for their mistakes.

[boombastictiger]

trashbat said:

boombastictiger said:

What i found interesting, yet not too surprising considering there are alot of people sponging on benefits, is that a lot of focus was put on the opinions of people who came out with the story of it being unfair or hard done by because they have been working all their life and hardly had any pay rises. From my experience so far of seeing people around me progress to top positions and pay brackets it is those who are incredibly smart, genius, risk takers or those who work super hard late after normal hours and educate themselves constantly who progress and find opportunities in their life. I think if people really wanted to get rich and make good money they would start living in their means and stop blaming others for their mistakes.

No doubt - and on the earlier Marxist theme, Lenin also said, 'he who doesn't work, doesn't eat'.

However the super-rich generally aren't self-made through hard work, or at the very least not self-maintained through the same. Wealth begets more wealth, comparatively much more easily than starting with nothing, so if you begin with a lot, you can rise further without doing very much at all. That's quite different to the motivating 'on your bike' scenario you describe, and is it what you want to encourage?

There's also the issue that generally for you to win, someone else has to lose. Sometimes it's away behind the curtain, some other foreign economy, but often not. Make a load of money from property, for instance, and chances are your tenants had to pay more because of either you or the mechanisms you use. Make a load of money from selling payday loans and it's a little bit more direct than that. Is that the work of someone who educated themselves, found opportunities, took risks etc, or is that just the deeds of some with money?

I see what you mean in the sense of some people inherit riches and role around as if they made it all themselves, but as envious as that may be, if you worked super hard and sacrificed your life to gain money, houses and everything inbetween with the intention of passing it onto your children and childrens children as so that they can enjoy life and live to the fullest however they want what business is that of anyone else or what is wrong with that as distastful as it may be to some? The only way i can see it is people are jealous of others who suceed...

I think it should be a level playing field, as so that everyone pays the same percentage or tax., not some pay 20 and some 40 upwards. Rich have a rep as some have said that to dodge tax etc, of corse that is wrong, the same way doing any crime is wrong, so as long as people live within the law i see no problem with how they spend their wealth.

Maybe i am wrong or not seeing something deeper to make a society bond and work? Punishing people and making them pay higher pecentage just doesnt sound right..

[boombastictiger]

Z

trashbat said:

or the most part, we think we're done with hereditary power structures - no more kings and lords in charge of the peasantry by simple fortune of being born to the right parents, except for a small and increasingly irrelevant house of each. In general we think that shedding that configuration has been a good thing. Many countries even define themselves using their instance of that historical moment. So why encourage the economic equivalent?

As others point out, a huge gap between rich and poor doesn't benefit anyone. Can you imagine living in luxury in an enormous mansion but having to be driven everywhere by armed guards because the rest of the country is falling into criminal ruin? Well it's not that hard - you just need the cash and then you can pick from a wide variety of places around the world where that is the case today.

To that, some people think, 'fk everyone else', and would be happy with that life. Fortunately for those who think that'd be less than ideal way to run everything, our Western European society is at least somewhat disinclined towards that. So, the idea is that the more you make, the more you can afford to return.

Supposedly the richest 1% in Britain - still a load of people - own the same wealth as the poorest 55% combined. At what point does that possibility stop being a useful motivator for success, and become a useless millstone for everyone else?

Edit: Oxfam claimed that five families own 20% of the UK population's wealth

I see how a gap in wealthy and poor can be a problem, but in the UK i do not think it is anywhere near as bad in an impact sense as say many countries like Somalia and India even, where the poor literally live in slums/tin huts, and the rich have massive mansions and cars.

Looking at things in the UK, mainly London i think the difference is that the poor/middle class may only be able to buy an old budget car or take out finance to buy a new car (matter or choice), whereas the rich can buy 10 ferraris...if abiding to speed limits and the law both will still get from a to b in the same time. Poor might have to shop in lidl, aldi, primark and stick to no thrills label, whereas rich can go to waitrose, wholefoods, harrods and co.. Yet both are just as healthy (matter of opinion) and both can eat well. In England i do not feel that the rich have a negative effect on my life, i do not see special lanes for their cars on motorways and i do not see special ques for them in shops (maybe 1st class desk at airports).

I guess there are benefits of having more disposable income let alone being rich, but people have to be responsible as well surely? Why have a child if they cannot afford to and then complain that they cannot go to restaurants because it is expensive? Why buy stuff you cannot afford? Why not work more than 1 job to get extra money instead of going out on the weekends? I know so many people who grind their life away juggling 2-3 jobs trying to achieve their goals. Again myself growing up in a poor/middle class family when i reached 15 i decided to work to buy those £70 pair of trainers i wanted, stacking lorries or whatever the money was money.

I agree we all have to help sort the issues in the country, but surely that means the poor as well? Instead of people sitting on benefits sponging off hard working peoples money and not going anywhere in their lives why not work even the most basic jobs and build up. Instead of having a kid why not wait and try and save some money first? I think it is a bit too easy just to go to the rich and say give us more money, i think it could be dangerous as well as the rich will in their minds feel as if they have more rights and power as they are paying a higher percentage, a bit like higher stake holders in a business. This is really the mindset of the hunger games (they used this as an example in the documentary to scare us).! Atleast if everyone is paying the same percentage all are equal?

Edited by boombastictiger on Monday 26th January 00:27

Edited by boombastictiger on Monday 26th January 00:30

[boombastictiger]

98elise said:

Does it bother you that when the super rich buy a pint of beer they only pay the same price as you?

If not why is paying more for government services "paying their dues"?

Very interesting point, should those who are rich be charged higher prices for food, petrol and everything else as well? Of course not, yet why should they be forced to pay an unequal sum in tax?

[boombastictiger]

Mosdef said:

The logistics of making every tax progressive make it impossible to do so (realistically). And taxing the population to that extent would probably act as a disincentive to work harder/earn more. It kind of feels that way already, combined NICs for employer and employee are at ridiculous levels and whilst I'm not super rich by any means, the way revenue is spent by the government makes me want to give it as little as possible. Continental countries are generally worse but the UK seems to have a very strange attitude towards wealthy people, seeing them as being there to be milked for the benefit of the ungrateful.

If everyone pays the same rates in tax then wont this mean that everyone is contributing equal percentages of their income? If people pay different percentages wont this widen the mental gap on inequality in the sense that those who pay higher percentages will feel as if they own or have greater rights?