Captain America: Civil War

[Halb]

http://io9.com/the-entire-marvel-cinematic-univers...

Everyone but Thor and Hulk!!!!

[Halb]

The risk it could get very messy is certainly there. Winter Soldier was a very tight well told story. So long as the third film totally focuses on the question of...should these powerful individuals be state controlled/regulated then it could work, it'll mean a lot of appearances should be cameos, with the brunt of the the discussion between Stark and Rogers.

[Halb]

Yeah, I'm expecting a few deaths. Basically putting together stuff from the stories about the upcoming films and the contracts people have signed.
Should be pretty epic.

[Halb]

This is just pure speculation...I know nothing, but I think we'll see the deaths of...

Steve Rogers - I reckon it'll be like the comic and the Winter Solider guy (9 film contract) will be the new Cap.
Stark will die...or be severely incapacitated, and Cody Rhodes (again like the comic) will become Iron-Man.
Thor may well die in Ragnarok and maybe the power of Thor will be given to a girl?
This might well take part as part of the Infinity Wars, which I am guessing will be a barnstorming spacewide fight.

[Halb]

The style of those films is quite different, I'd be interested to know, as a newbie, which she prefers.

[Halb]

Veeayt said:

Female Thor identity revealed
http://io9.com/marvel-finally-reveals-the-identity...

Interesting. Couple that with the fact that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are now not mutants in the comics, Marvel seem to be drawing from each media for the other.

That is not say that the films will follow the comics exactly, that is not possible. The Marvel universe is a hybrid of the old Marvel uni and the new Ultimate one.
I read an article that talked about the Civil War storyline, the only major difference between the comic and the films are that secret identities don't exist in the films, which is a sensible move.
That's why I think we'll see government agents, the ones that side with Stark will assume the official mantles of 'heroes', while Steve Rogers, Tony Stark et al may die. Also I don't see recasts unless the studio is forced to. That's a big advantage (for me) over the comics, if somebody dies, the chances are good that they'll stay dead...Coulson anomaly accepted.

Also I just realised, of course this film is full of heroes....it's a civil war! There aren't really any super villains in the MCU.

[Halb]

GarryDK said:

??? Loki? Winter soldier? Red skull? Ultron? Thanos? Ronan? Whiplash? The Mandarin? Abomination? And thousands more they could bring in.

As I typed it, I realised it wasn't highly accurate (I was thinking of Loki at the time), but what I mean is that the iconic baddies are not owned by MCU, Loki has been used and reused, and Thanos is a galactic baddie. For on the ground footsoldiers the only one I can think of is the Absorbing Man, and he was dealt with easy enough by SHIELD.
Mandarin was an actor, they won't reuse Abomination.
I'm thinking of low level ones they'd need to bring in...the good guys far outweigh the bad guys right now. THere hasn't been an explosion of bad supers like there has been good supers. The Inhumans story connection may change this.
Baron Zemo is a baddie I've seen listed as one coming in, I didn't know who he was.
I expect the High Evolutionary though, considering the Inhuman stuff.

[Halb]

Sheeeet, that looks frggin brilliant!
In the same vein as Cap2!

[Halb]

I dunno. A fella on super soldier serum can go toe-to-toe with the Hulk, so I think Tony's suit would have difficulty.

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

Really, I didn't know that? I've read a few comics but not enough to be an expert but I thought the serum only took people to the "peak" of human ability i.e. they are probably as strong as the worlds strongest man and have the physical abilities of a world class athlete which impressive though it is should still be a LONG way from going toe-to-toe with the Hulk or IM.
Certainly in the films, Cap always seems to struggle when facing off against most super-powered opponents.

I've read the comics, but a long time ago, they changed their minds too much, I'm going off the Incredible Hulk film, now it wasn't long, but the guy who became the Abomination (Blonsky?) was able to not die instantly against the Hulk. He had a version of the Super-Soldier serum. Though not identical..I think.
The fight didn't last long, and he guy did run off...but erm...
Ross says something like, 'he's doing it!!'.
Plus Cap has that shield.

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

I thought I remember Hulk getting p*ssed off with playing with him and then giving him an almighty wallop to the chest, breaking all the bones in his body.

However my comic reading friend and font of all knowledge seems to agree with your statement that Caps or any super serum soldier is a lot tougher than they look so what do I know.

Well I did say he ddin't die instantly.
From what I recall, HUlk is trying to hit him, but can't. I do recall Blonsky running off (maybe after being hit?) and him sprinting like a nutter.

In one video they show that Cap's shield can take a whack from Thor's hammer, and it vibrates back (vibranium), but then in Winter Soldier a RPG knocks him back. So I think there is flexibility in the films.

[Halb]

Yeah, it is fun though.

Cap would lose; it just wouldn't be like a fly-swat with any other human.

The scene with Bucky and Cap against Tony looks ace.

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

It certainly does doesn't it and while part of me is very happy at how cool this fight is going to look on screen, I can't help but be a little saddened that Cap and IM come to blows. I know they haven't always seen eye-to-eye but I felt the journey they have taken over the last few films meant that they had at last developed a mutual respect for each other so it doesn't really make much sense in that context.

However I know the Civil War story-line is a big part of the comics and very popular but I didn't really think it made sense there either other than someone probably thought "wouldn't it be cool to have all the hero's fight each other" and then made up some far fetched story to make it happen.

My take is the opposite. I thought it was where Marvel grew up a bit. If people if powers existed, then the gov would try and control them behind or in front of the scenes, the fallout of public liability and insurance would be a legal requirement. (Watchmen/The INcredibles etc).
The fun thing with Civil War is that people's perceptions of who would stand where in a government crack-down is not accurate. This storyline was post Bush and Homeland security, so it was pretty Zeitgeist at the time, it tied in with stuff that BSG was doing. The whole how much security should we give up, how much should these people be controlled was a great storyline well above, 'let's have Cap fight Iron-Man', because heroes fighting each other over disagreements, confusion or mistakes is as old as the comics. This wasn't about the reason for fighting. This had a lot more to it. I think the subtle references of Cap in the Avengers films (with Tony and Fury) are a brilliant bricklaying of his unease with the world he finds himself in.

[Halb]

I agree with listing;
Hulk
Thor (with hammer close to Hulk)
Iron-Man (can slide up or down due to power requirements, always a good plot device and one of the reasons he isn't a top fave of mine)
Cap
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
the two assassins.

Never been a fan of Vision, and so I never really knew what he could do. He did seem very meh in the film.
There is a nice chat about tech versus bone at the end of the Incredible Hulk I think? Between Generel Ross and Tony STark.

[Halb]

Antony Moxey said:

orry, I'm getting very lost with this. Who are Vision, Scarlett Witch, Black Panther and Crossbones? Have we seen them in the films and were they named as such?

Apologies if it's obvious and I've been dim.

Vision was the big new reveal in Avengers2:Age of Ultron. The film finished with him as part of the new line-up. Scarlett Witch was also in A2AoE, she starts as a baddie and ends up also, in the new line up. In the comics she is one of the most powerful if not the most powerful, 'mutant' (a name not owned by MCU).
Film versions all seem not as strong as their comic counterparts.
Black Panther is a completely new bloke, who comic fans have recognised from the trailer. Don't know Crossbones.

[Halb]

Antony Moxey said:

Ah right, think I've got it (or probably not). Is Vision the Paul Bettany character that came from (ish) Jarvis and Scarlett Witch the one who had the brother that could run really fast? Also, the guy who CA meets at the start of Winter Soldier when they're both out running who has the mechanical wings - does he have a super hero name?

Yeah, Vision is Paul Bettany, Scarlet Witch is the sister of roadrunner, and the guy with wings is called Falcon, he popped up in Ant-Man. They are all active Avengers as of the end of A2.

[Halb]

The Hulk isn't a goody two shows wker like Superman, but he has a good heart, and has never hurt a civilian in anger on purpose. I think the Hulk in the films is probably worthy from what we've seen thus far.

Also, what is a God? Just a super-charged mortal?

[Halb]

richtea78 said:

Gods are typically immortal though although I accept that in a comic they all are to an extent.

Gods immortality usually comes from a device. For the Æsir it was the golden apples of Iðunn, for the Olympians, it was Ambrosia.

[Halb]

For a moment I thought you wanted me to take a picture of a God eating custard.

Guvernator said:

Although Thor is a god, that isn't in the biblical sense, he is the Norse god of thunder so much more in the vein of Greek gods than the Christian version which means he isn't omniscient, omnipresent or any of that other all powerful jazz. He is just EXTREMELY strong and durable but he isn't immortal per se, in the films he gets injured and bleeds and in the comics he has even died.

Hulk on the other hand gets stronger the angrier he gets, his body converts the ambient gamma radiation\energy in the air to give him both strength and mass and there is even some thought that he may be pulling energy from another dimension. In the comics I don't think they've discovered\reached the uppers limits of his strength and durability.

Basically it means they are pretty evenly matched in terms of strength and durability although potentially Hulk could be stronger if he gets angry enough but as stated the authors will often be move the goalposts and play with power levels on a whim.

In terms of whether Hulk can lift the Hammer, in the films he definitely couldn't, at least not yet. The one time he tried he dented a steel floor trying but the hammer didn't move a millimetre. In the comics however he has been shown to pick it up so perhaps this might something we see in the Hulk\Thor film.

Hulk and Thor have fought loads of times. One comic I had was pretty cool, Hulk was wary of the hammer, so asked Thor to get rid of it. Thor hurled it as hard as he could (due to the enchantment of return) to give him a few minutes to fight without it.
Marvel did used to have (still I think) a strength ranking system, Thor was always in the top one.
I also had a really really cool comic where a vastly reduced Hulk (grey version) met an upgraded (spiky version) Thing. Now that was a cool fight.

[Halb]

Guvernator said:

Yep they still have a tier system although not sure how "official it is. Thor and Hulk are both top tier in terms of physical strength which is rated at anyone who can lift over 100 tonnes, however neither are top tier in terms of ultimate power as there are some characters which are effectively Gods with a capital G in the true sense of the word, i.e. I am sure there is one instance where a God level character transports Thor in an eyeblink to another part of the world to show how far beneath him he is.

For example Galactus in the second Fantastic Four film (the one with Silver Surfer) is supposed to be at that cosmic level which is why it was VERY disappointing how they handled him in that film, basically a big tornado taken out like a chump.

Thanos the purple guy who has been quietly pulling the strings in the background in most of the current Marvel films is another cosmic level character, I can't wait to see the Avengers square off against him as he is one TOUGH cookie, that should be a decent fight!

I too was hugely disappointed with Galactus...and the whole FF two film franchise in general. They sucked. Not keen on most of the X-Men films too. I tink Marvel are best at their own characters.

Interestingly, if one looks at the Abrahamic God, Yahwah, he was basically just another thunder God way back when, amongst a load of Gods in the middle East (the bible even references this), but it became corrupted over the decades.