Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

[Jonesy23]

As some people seem to have gone a bit overboard adding a non-spoilers thing to the other thread here's one without that limitation where we can discuss this show properly at the same time as discussion and reviews are appearing in the rest of the world.

The warning in the title is hopefully big enough.

This may also include discussing the previews for the next episodes...

[Jonesy23]

Episode 7 preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhwDNSgW3Ac

[Jonesy23]

If he isn't / wasn't Wyatt then he was certainly in charge to some level and did a lot of bad stuff.

A question would be how much of the new behaviour is from the changes Ford has done for his new story and how much is from the fiddling that Arnold or whoever has been doing via the back door.

The preview for the next episode has a nice bit of Host violence in it which might be a demo of a fault someone has introduced. Or it might be showing what the machines could do if used for something other than a theme park.

[Jonesy23]

Watchman said:

Another one, Logan was beaten hard by the hosts in the previous ep. I was surprised at the level of violence they were allowed to perpetrate on guests. Was this explained anywhere?

Lower safety limits as you get further out/deeper into the game and get more realism. I don't think you can die (it was said you couldn't?) but a good kicking would be within the rules along with other nastiness.

The central part is basically Disneyland, they even shut down and cleaned up the robbery because a couple of families were on their way over.

[Jonesy23]

Robot copies of people and robots on the staff would mean that ***SPOILER - only came out in 1976!!!*** someone has seen Futureworld too.

[Jonesy23]

I think people had this wrong when they talked about Abrams and compared it to Lost, this is very much a Nolan project and all the little hints and clues and stories are carefully constructed to lead somewhere rather than just being a random collection of ideas thrown together in lieu of a plot.

It seems clear so far that if you pay proper attention you can put things together and get the right answers which is always much more rewarding as a story than something that jumps randomly to an unpredictable next step.

Also looking forward to more Nolan exploration of emergent AI.

[Jonesy23]

Watchman said:

So, was his debriefing of Delores during a time after he killed Theresa, or did he get to that room via other means (so he didn't know about the CitW), or was there some memory manipulation of Bernard going on?

Or was it simply a scenario the producers thought no-one would notice? I find that hard to believe given the forensic levels of inspection going on.

The obvious(-ish) answer is that the Delores scenes aren't with 'Bernard' at all but are with Arnold and predate the original incident in the park when this room was still in its original use. I.e. they're parts of a different timeline.

[Jonesy23]

Oakey said:

Who is the new Clementine? She looks familiar. Also, she's hot.

She was in Banshee.

[Jonesy23]

Lots of stuff going on in those pictures, not exactly sure what but it'll be interesting to find out.

[Jonesy23]

Lots of exposition this week. Really starting to come together.

[Jonesy23]

Lots of different time lines going on, nice that they still don't make it truly explicit but just make the details that give it away make it more obvious eg the mechanical guts.

Thought they did a nice job of de-aging Ford for the creation of Bernard, showed it was a few years ago but more subtle than the job for the bits during the set up of the park. And I know that one only looks odd because they deliberately made young Anthony Hopkins look like 'himself' and not what he really looked like at that age.

Maeve as good a character as ever, same with Bernard. William has some really serious issues from the number of bits he left around the place!

[Jonesy23]

Does look like it could be, say for example in the clip above when 'Wyatt killed the General' that could be Delores killing Arnold.

The question would be the why of it, Arnold rigging things so the hosts run amok on his command or them becoming sentient and rebelling on their own?

[Jonesy23]

AndrewEH1 said:

I hope I wasn't the only one to notice that the photo handed to William of his fiancé was the same photo that Delores' dad found on the farm and caused him to go mental?

Yes, the same photo but in 'new' condition. Big obvious pointer about timelines for people not picking up on the subtle hints. A bit like mechanical guts in Delores.

[Jonesy23]

Liked that.

As and when you come to watch it there is a post-credits scene.

[Jonesy23]

Some top moments...

Felix (the tech) reaction to finding Bernard, and the 'oh for fks sake' he got in response.

The grins on a couple of characters when they got automatic weapons.

Pretty much everything Armistice (the girl with the snake tattoo) got up to, some subtle stuff in there and lots of scope in the character.

[Jonesy23]

Oakey said:

At least there can be no doubt now as to who the MiB is.

Someone who took their rage over losing their saved game progress way way too far?

So do we think it was the real thing that took a bullet on stage or was it the basement project that took the fall? I could see it working either way.

[Jonesy23]

I was thinking it was quite a clever way to allow Anthony Hopkins to be in the next season or not without committing to anything. As said he could still be in it by having had a host shot instead, otherwise he really is dead and there's a different explanation and maybe the host is used for a substitute character with a similar role in the story.

[Jonesy23]

I've got to admit that when I first watched it I never picked up on the whole bit of Maeve and co being rebuilt from scratch without the explosive in the neck. I just saw it as yet another day in refurb.

[Jonesy23]

NJK44 said:

Jonesy23 said:

I've got to admit that when I first watched it I never picked up on the whole bit of Maeve and co being rebuilt from scratch without the explosive in the neck. I just saw it as yet another day in refurb.

Where, when, what?

OK in the previous ep you see Maeve and friends in the camp. She then sets everything on fire.

This episode you see the skeleton being put together by the machine, then Sylvester comes in and pulls a vertebrae out of the neck and puts another one in place. You then see the body being constructed, come out of the gloop looking like Maeve then cut to Maeve. Meanwhile you see Hector and Armistice also all shiny and new, Hector still waiting to get his scar and Armistice getting her tattoo done, also indicating new builds.

So what has apparently happened is to 'fix' the problem of the explosive they had built in their necks to stop them escaping (and which being a vertebrae can't be removed) Maeve has really and properly trashed all their bodies in the fire so they needed to be rebuilt and her friendly techs make sure the explosive bit is skipped so they don't have the failsafe any more.

This bit also shows that the Hosts are close to impossible to properly kill as one way or another their brain survives regardless of damage to the body.

Which foreshadows Bernard also still being alive.

Does make me wonder (yet again) why they'd bother with the cold storage thing though as the modern bodies are obviously considered pretty disposable. So you think if a Host was worth keeping they'd just keep the expensive bit (the brain/programming) and scrap the rest. Or if properly ruined & glitching why not just scrap them?

[Jonesy23]

Just bumping this ready for later.