Pilots flying after 22 hours straight awake due to EU regs

[The Big G]

Over the past 18 months or so, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has been formulating a new set of pilot fatigue rules. What they are proposing is unscientific, unsafe and would lessen UK aviation safety – DRAMATICALLY.

Under the EU’s proposals:
• Pilots could be awake for 22 hours straight before landing their aircraft at the end of the day.
• Pilots will be made to fly further without a relief crew member meaning that they won’t be as well rested as they could be.
• And pilots could be asked to do more early starts in a row, which evidence shows is fatiguing.

These are just a few examples of where the proposed rules are far worse than those currently in place in the UK.

We are rapidly heading towards the UK Government accepting these new regulations and their coming into force. The UK Government must do more at this critical stage in the process to significantly improve the regulations or to ensure that the UK can continue to opt-out of the EU rules as we do at the moment.

Please sign the petition below if you wish to help uphold the unrivaled safety of British airlines.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/16050

Obligatory Daily Mail article, but remember this is a very serious issue which has to be resolved soon before the new rules are forced in.

More detailed information can be found here.

[The Big G]

Origin Unknown said:

Forgot about this by the time I got to work.

Did I hear this correct on the BBC news first thing this morning; "50% of pilots admitted to falling asleep while on the flight deck. Of those, a third admitted that when they woke up, the co-pilot was asleep"?

I hope I misheard that.

Unfortunately this is very true, even with todays rules.

GC8 said:

It makes a mockery of tachograph rules, I think.

They work more restrictive hours, with less lives at risk, and if they feel to tired they can pull over and stop. Can't do this easily in the air!!

voyds9 said:

How much flying does a pilot actually do.

I believe most of the landings and level flights are done 'by the computer' I am not sure of the takeoff's.

Quite a lot more than you think really, the plane will never take off itself and we do most of the landings ourselves. Especially if the weather is not very good, read windy. We also work very hard when things on the aircraft go wrong, the autopilot wont handle that by itself.

alock said:

The article that backs up your stance said:

Airport standby would not count as duty so if you wake at 05:00 in the morning and begin your standby at 07:00 in the crew room, then get called to take a flight at 11:00, the EU proposal would allow flying until 01:00 next morning. This is 18 hours from the start of the standby and 20 hrs after having woken up. Add an unforeseen delay and 2 hrs of discretion and you will have been awake for 22 hours.

It just looks like someone is trying to stretch the figures to their limit to get a big headline. What do you do for 4 hours in the crew room? Why add 2 discretionary hours at the end?

So to answer this one. Most airlines have extra pilots and cabin crew waiting at the airport in case crew don't show up at the scheduled report time. These shifts at my airline can be up to 8 hours long. At present the duty time starts when they arrive at the airport. The new rules make the assumption that this is the same as staying at home, its not as there is probably nowhere comfy to sit and you definitely can't still be in bed sleeping! As for the extra 2 hours discretion at the end. Flights can be planned by the carrier up to the maximum limit, but what happens if there is a extra delay to this that pushes it over. Do the pilots and crew get off or use this possible 2 hours of extension if required? This can now be forced upon the pilots by the company instead of the current rules which allow the pilots to add this on only if they feel fit to do so. Which would you prefer, and which would the company for that matter.


The other thing that I should have mentioned is that the CAA have stated that the new rule set will be self regulated by the airlines themselves!!! What do you think the chances of the Loco's or even the legacy carriers not pushing things to the limits to increase productivity. The airlines have been the biggest lobbyists for the new rules too, as they can gain far greater productivity. They seem to state the old mantra "safety is our number one priority" at every possible opportunity but in reality it is making the most for the board of directors. Safety only matters if they come close to loosing an aircraft or sounds good.

[The Big G]

oyster said:

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

If a portion of your pay is via hourly rate then yes. But, pilots are still against it....

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

But pushing paper over a desk 9-5 as per a lot of jobs is totally different too flying a plane at any time of the day any time of the week. Especially while having to be fit at the end to be able to deal with a serious malfunction adequately as I'm sure you hope we will be able to. What risks are there in your job? If we don't do ours properly at stupid times of the night people die and we can go to prison. If we survive.

Just remember the pilots are saying that these rules are not a good idea, even though we may be paid more. What does this tell you!!!

[The Big G]

9 new signatures in the last hour. Many thanks to those of you who have signed it. And for those who haven't have a think through the implications that pilot fatigue could have on you one fateful night

[The Big G]

For more information have a watch of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yumixcN-o

and have a look at this too

http://www.keepflyingsafe.co.uk/

[The Big G]

Greg_D said:

a momentary lapse in consciousness due to fatigue for a lorry driver WILL be worse than the same thing for a pilot.

This all depends in what phase of flight or part of road the lorry is on. Would you wish the pilots skills to be degraded through fatigue at take off or landing? There isn't really any space here for that and we need to be on top of our game if the conditions require it.

el stovey said:

Of course falling asleep at the wheel when driving a truck on the road might be worse than one pilot falling asleep in the cruise but fatigue isn't just about if you're actually awake or not it's about your degraded ability to deal with complex tasks at crucial times.

This though is the most important part of the issue though mentioned by el stovey.

But please, this isn't meant to be a slanging match. I just wish to inform people outside of the industry know of the problem that if affecting the industry at the moment and the possible repercussions that it could have upon yourself and your family one fateful night in the future.