The truth about immigration
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03phwk5
Now on BBC2
Will Nick Robinson's programme influence government policy?
Now on BBC2
Will Nick Robinson's programme influence government policy?
Mandat said:
Victor McDade said:
Almost 2.5 million unemployed in this country yet we are still importing cheap labour from overseas. It's madness. Yet none of major parties even talk about this.
Whenever this argument is made, I ask myself how many of the 2.5m actually want to find a job, and how many are content to sit on their arse all day and live off benefits.If the Bank of England can target the unemployment rate in determining interest rates ( see below), how about controlling/fine tuning economic migration by taking into account the unemployment rate.
Glad the debate is more open now and hopefully will lead to better controlled immigration taking account our resources/concerns/needs. A points system of a sort. Better for all, including the current immigrant population.
"MARK CARNEY is set to amend the Bank of England’s forward guidance in the coming months by changing the unemployment benchmark at which an interest rates rise will be considered.
In August, when setting out his forward guidance, the Bank governor said a rate increase would not be considered until unemployment fell to 7%. At the time, the Bank did not expect that to be until 2016.
But sharply falling unemployment means 7% could be achieved soon and City economists expect the Bank’s monetary policy committee to shift the “threshold” to 6.5%. This will allow the Bank to hold interest rates at 0.5% this year."
and Yvette Cooper would be worse!!!!!!!!Digga said:
The people in government seldom have to worry about getting stuck in traffic, booking trains months in advance, living next door to third world filth, queuing-up at their Gps surgery or A&E, and all of the other negatives symptoms that ordinary citizens experience, so why would they care, as long as they get a growing cut of a growing publis sector?
Excellent suggestion - all MP's & their partners should spend a week living the life of the common man. 
. Every year.http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pj5cf
The UK seems to be the solution for illegal immigrants - adds to our problem.
The UK seems to be the solution for illegal immigrants - adds to our problem.
Digga said:
What is apparent from this programme (see 15 mins in) is how this is effectively 'bringing the third world' to parts of the country. The mess generated (see also the Sheffield Roma from the programme which inspired the OP) is blighting the country.
Race to the bottom, just because we are tolerant/generous/fair/charitable. There is a likelihood of the pendulum swinging the other way if the population think this is out of control, and that would be a pity.http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03pj5cf/The_...
Digga said:
powerstroke said:
pcvdriver said:
porridge said:
This argument has been done to death and is not related to the current mess we are in so please stop.
Just because we need immigration does not mean we cannot decide who to let in and how long to let them in for, and on top of this if we improved the lives of the squeezed classes so the mum could stay at home and they could buy a larger home, many brits would love to have more kids.
Uncontrolled immigration is the issue, not the fact that we do need immigration.
My argument is that many on here don't want ANY immigration at all.Just because we need immigration does not mean we cannot decide who to let in and how long to let them in for, and on top of this if we improved the lives of the squeezed classes so the mum could stay at home and they could buy a larger home, many brits would love to have more kids.
Uncontrolled immigration is the issue, not the fact that we do need immigration.
Who ???!!
AFAIK, the germaine issues are uncontrolled immigration (and specifically, allowing know criminals and terrorists entry) and the numbers of immigrants which, in some areas, are changing communities - creating ghettos - rather than integrating with them.
Cross party agreement on controlled immigration (subject to EU dictates) based on a point system would be good for everyone.
mrpurple said:
andymadmak said:
No country can accept unrestricted immigration for ever. At some point what was once beneficial, desirable even, becomes disruptive and untenable. I personally think we are very close to that point in the UK. Our infrastructure is creaking, our services at breaking point and our social cohesion is unravelling in some areas of the country. The idea that the ONLY way to solve the problems of social care and the requirements for manual labour (amongst other things) is to bring in people to do those jobs whilst we have hundreds of thousands of people sat on the dole because they don't feel inclined to accept a job that might mean getting a sweat up is just wrong imho. At best it is lazy thinking which just kicks the problem 20 years down the road for someone else to sort out ( by which time it will be an even bigger mess) and at worst it is morally reprehensible to rely on the vulnerability and desperation of the poor from other nations to cover up for the failings of our political and education systems to address the problem of our indigenous unemployed. The economic migration of unskilled workers is something that has to stop. Over time, I would even put limits on skilled migrants, and in parallel I would be looking to improve training and education in this country so that we can actually do something with the people we have, rather than let them languish.
It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.
very well put.this thread may as well be locked now.It isn't just about who wants to work and who does not. It isn't about who sends their child benefit abroad each month ( although that does grate a bit too) What it is about is fixing the ills in our society which are in part caused by a combination of a culture of long term unemployment, reliance on benefits instead of work, a culture of low pay ( made worse by an abundance of cheap alternate labour from abroad) an overweaning sense of entitlement in place of the idea that rewards are earned in life, not demanded, and the celebration of mediocrity whilst attacking excellence.
We cannot address those things whilst we continue to leave a large number of people on the sidelines.
menousername said:
Digga said:
You know just considering the NHS alone, IMHO we are witnessing the first instance, in many generations, where individual's expectations of what their local facilities afford them is being reduced. Services key to everyday life; A&E and maternity wards, are being cut in many geographic areas.
We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.
Agree completely. Partly due to immigration partly due to our own excesses. I envisage, and worry, about a UK where basic fundamental services are no longer guaranteed. A visit to the GP / A&E requires a surchage paid. Prescription medicine costs sky-rocketing. School places not guaranteed, etc. I worry that the quality of life as we know it is on the brink of becoming unsustainable. These are just random snippets that I worry about.We have a severe crisis in the welfare system. Blindly adding more obligations, without any evaluation of affordability - on either an individual or societal level - is irresponsible.
I think there are something like 2000 babies born in the UK every day! Each and every day! Thats approx 730,000 a year. A rough cost to the nhs for each delivery is £1500, unless I need my morning coffee to do the man-maths, I think that means a yearly cost of in excess of £1BN just in deliveries. Without then considering the need for teachers, school places, bricks & mortar, etc etc, jobs, pensions, etc etc.
How can anyone feel that the future UK is going to be a pleasant place to be?
Quoted from a Deloitte briefing
- Almost half of the new jobs created since 2010 have gone to foreign born workers.
- EU enlargement and the march of globalisation have led to a marked rise in the UK’s foreign born workforce. The proportion of people working in the UK who were not born here has risen from 9% in to 15% in the last 10 years. Over this time period foreign born workers have accounted for the great majority of the job growth in the UK.
Esseesse said:
RYH64E said:
Funkycoldribena said:
No wonder a Polish worker works so hard when hes on four times his own countries average wage,why would a British worker slog his guts out for 6 quid an hour which wont even buy a packet of fags or petrol to get to work? All I hear is "they're such hard grafters".Pay a British worker in Tesco,Starbucks etc 24 quid an hour and I reckon they'll graft pretty damn hard and actually care about losing their job.
The Polish worker will be paying UK prices when they're over here, £6.31/hour may well be more than they'd get in Poland but the cost of living in the UK is about double that of Poland.I use a fair few agency workers when we're busy, I've had a few good British ones but in general the Poles/Lithuanians are more reliable, harder working and all round easier to deal with. The agency charges about £9.50/hr for unskilled manual workers, it's a shame that the money can't go direct to the worker but the way things are it's just not worth putting someone on the books for a short term contract.
The difference I suspect between Polish and British workers is a cultural one. That's not to say that British people are not capable of working hard, but I would expect things in Poland are a lot closer to "don't work, don't eat" than they are here where things are more cushy. If the consequences of not working in the UK were greater, British workers would be more productive. After a while (10 years/the next generation) I expect Polish workers to become just as un-hard working as the British because they will have got used to the system here.
DJRC said:
Time for another bonfire of the ignorant muppets again is it? The amount of money our foreign earners are taking out of the economy is chicken feed s
t. This is especially true when you look at the other side of the ledger. Have you got any idea how much mercenary piratical bds like me steal out of foreign economies? Billions. Because the thousands of working Brit ex pats are paid in the hundreds of thousands of pounds not the minimum wage. And we send the vast majority of it back into the UK economy. The ledger balances very much on the UK side.
We have always had mercenariest. This is especially true when you look at the other side of the ledger. Have you got any idea how much mercenary piratical bds like me steal out of foreign economies? Billions. Because the thousands of working Brit ex pats are paid in the hundreds of thousands of pounds not the minimum wage. And we send the vast majority of it back into the UK economy. The ledger balances very much on the UK side.league67 said:
You think that increasing labour cost four times will not have an effect on consumer prices?
If the EU have their way, labour costs will rise.http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/02/13/should-the...
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