What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

[anonymous-user]

Italian righty types almost drown (and, worse, end up in Malta) in inspired attempt to show that crossing the Med by small boat is a piece of Panettone. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys!

The Lega Nord, BTW, whose many claims to fame include a call by one of its MEPs for ethnic segregation on the buses in Milan, has a staunch ally in a certain UK political party beloved of PH. As they used to say in an older version of Italy that ran a sort of European integration project for a while, noscitur a sociis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/07/italy-d...

[anonymous-user]

The main point of the story is that it affords an opportunity to laugh at the idiocy of some idiots doing some idiotic stuff. As a secondary point, it so happens that these are the same idiots that Saint Nige consorts with politically. Those who choose to think that the fact that he willingly allies himself with Neo Fascist nutjobs is irrelevant are, of course, free to do so.

[anonymous-user]

10 Pence Short said:

Breadvan72 said:

The main point of the story is that it affords an opportunity to laugh at the idiocy of some idiots doing some idiotic stuff. As a secondary point, it so happens that these are the same idiots that Saint Nige consorts with politically. Those who choose to think that the fact that he willingly allies himself with Neo Facist nutjobs is irrelevant are, of course, free to do so.

I thought your point was more about Malta, tbh.

Well, of course, but even a 'kipper doesn't need that written out in crayon, surely?

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

...We should not make fun of them, nor laugh at them. These are seriously dangerous people. They should be exposed as such.

Only Godwin prevents me from mentioning someone else that we used to laugh and poke fun at. Ridiculing hateful idiots is one (not the only) way of responding to them.

[anonymous-user]

10 Pence Short said:

Breadvan72 said:

Well, of course, but even a 'kipper doesn't need that written out in crayon, surely?

I went to Gozo once. That was nice. It was the island I've been to that most sounds like a Muppet. Apart from Kermit, just off the coast of Croatia.

I may have made that up.

Malta is ace if you want to buy a minty Morris Marina(and who doesn't?).

[anonymous-user]

Guam said:

Time they got a room

That assumes that we aren't just the same dude. I nominate turbobloke.

As for holiday ideas, UKIP holiday heaven must be Gibraltar, which is like Leicester in 1957 but without the rain. Grisly food, British Home Stores, Johnny Foreigner kept in his place, and even a few glimpses of Imperial glory in the form of grey warships (OK, they are probably American ones stopping off to dump their garbage in the harbour, but never mind).

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

Breadvan72 said:

I nominate turbobloke.

What for?

If it's for the role of pointing out the false link you tried to get away with in the OP you're too late.

There are various Parties represented on PH, some people on here even vote Labour.

No, I nominate you as being me and 10PS. If you deny it, that's proof, innit? Come to think of it, can anyone on here prove that they aren't turbobloke?

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

You have a point there, I can't prove I'm not TB.

[Universe implodes. PH vanishes into space/time wormhole/discontinuity loop. Only MX 5 threads remain.]

[anonymous-user]

Rovinghawk said:

10 Pence Short said:

If you look at the countries where the far right have most prominence, it's no surprise to see it's the ones with least spare cash.

America? In particular Texas?

In Texas, and other traditionally conservative parts of the US there is a lot of poverty and the associated ignorance and fear. The oil money does not spread as widely or fairly as it should. One of the ironies of the US is that, broadly speaking, the pro Federal Democrat States raise the Federal revenues, and the anti Federal Republican States spend them.

[anonymous-user]

AshVX220 said:

Indeed.

I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.

What gravy train might that be, pray? I didn't know that you were my accountant. Can you let me know how you are getting on with those schedules? Cheers.

[anonymous-user]

BTW, assumptions about what people might think can be erroneous. If there is an in/out referendum, I will start the campaign as a floating voter, and will listen to the number crunching and the other arguments. I favour a United States of Europe, but only if it is democratic, and that is not on offer. I deplore much of what the EU has come to be, but I want to see the numbers crunched in detail, as ultimately the question may be what is in the long term economic interest of the UK. If putting up with all the BS is a price that is worth paying for the gains, then I will reluctantly put up with the BS.

Migration within the EU is a transient issue, I think, that will settle down in time, as the free movement economy matures I think that we should have waited another twenty years before enlarging to the east, but it's done now, and the predictions of swamping aren't coming true.

As for smears, a smear is not a smear if it's true. UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. It is also shameful, BTW, that the UK is allied with the Saudis.

I don't think that Farage is a racist. Some of his followers are, some aren't. Farage's main vice is that he's an hypocrite - a systematically dishonest (second) career politician masquerading as a bloke in the pub.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th April 11:28

[anonymous-user]

AshVX220 said:

Breadvan72 said:

AshVX220 said:

Indeed.

I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.

What gravy train might that be, pray? I didn't know that you were my accountant. Can you let me know how you are getting on with those schedules? Cheers.

Surely you spend loads of time upholding all those lovely EU laws don't you? Without the EU there'd be less laws to uphold....

Schedules aren't looking good mate, I might need more money to make 'em tie up.......

That's fewer laws, please! (less jam, fewer spoons). One of Farage's biggest fibs (and he follows the well known maxim that the trick to lying is to keep on repeating the same fib over and over again) is the one about 70% or thereabouts of law that affects the UK being driven by the EU. It is hard to obtain a meaningful measurement of the volume of legislation that is directed or influenced by the EU, and not all laws are the same size or weight, but reputable studies by academic researchers put the figure at somewhere around 15 to 18% (so both Clegg and Farage were wrong on this).

My own anecdotal experience as a knockabout business and government law generalist is that a Europoint crops up in about one case in seven, but, as I said, "how much from where?" is a somewhat meaningless measure, as content matters more than volume. My experience as a working lawyer has been that most of the nonsense (there is far, far too much legislation) continues to be home grown, but it is supplemented by a fair amount of Eurostuff, some of which is nonsense, and some of which isn't. Myths abound. For example, the UK does not routinely gold plate EU law, but is widely supposed to do so. The UK quite often gets done for not implementing EU law, but is widely supposed to follow it slavishly. The whole area is a forest of myth and made uppery.

If the UK were to leave the EU, I would still be able to work, subject to the usual exigencies of the economy, as most of what I do is in one way or another dependent on business activity. I won't be voting in a referendum on the basis of personal gain. I will be trying to figure out, if I can, what seems best for the country that my daughter and her friends will be living in for the next several decades, and voting accordingly. The curious PH notion that a person who has different views from your own must only hold those views for reasons of personal advantage/selfishness is, well, curious.

[anonymous-user]

rs1952 said:

One of the oldest, and poorest, arguments in the book runs thus:

"You don't agree with me, therefore you must be in the pay of somebody whose views you support"

Shows a lack of debating skills IMHO

Yep. Over in the McCann thread, I am told that I am on a 24/7 retainer from the evil parents. Ker-ching, but the money seems not to be reaching all my evil Swiss bank accounts for some reason. I don't bother going to the climate change threads, as there is only so much wibble that it's possible to take, but I gather that the thesis there is that thousands of serious scientists worldwide have been bribed to abandon basic scientific ethics by some evil green lobby. I am not sure if the "you must work for Malaysian Airlines/Oscar Pistorious/Dr Evil" stuff has started on those threads yet, but I suppose that it may soon enough.

[anonymous-user]

HonestIago said:

....

Breadvan72 said:

As for smears, a smear is not a smear if it's true. KIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. It is also shameful, BTW, that the UK is allied with the Saudis.

Are you really that simple? Something might have a grain of truth but that doesn't mean it should be blown out of all proportion and used to try and ruin reputations.

...

A grain of truth? Which part of the statement "UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups" is not true? Er, no part. Blown up out of proportion? What's to blow up? The statement itself says all that it needs to say. Here it is again: UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. If that ruins reputations, well, so it should! I suggest that perhaps you just don't want to look in the mirror, because if you do you might see who is standing next to you.

[anonymous-user]

HonestIago said:

Breadvan72 said:

...

Migration within the EU is a transient issue, I think, that will settle down in time, as the free movement economy matures I think that we should have waited another twenty years before enlarging to the east, but it's done now, and the predictions of swamping aren't coming true.

You know this how? Can you see how everyone else lives as you gaze wistfully from your ivory tower??

Is that the inner London ivory tower, or the Oxfordshire village ivory tower, or the Manchester, Leeds, Bristol and Birmingham ivory towers (some places that I live, have lived in, and work in regularly)? Do you have some all seeing eye, a Palantir or something, to tell you how "everyone else" lives? Has your work recently taken you inside a prison, a failing hospital, a non failing school, a (no longer operational) crack den, a Town Hall, an MoD base, a board room, a shipyard, and other assorted places? Mine has. I didn't see a lot of ivory in any of those places, but perhaps I wasn't looking hard enough.

As for swamping, look up the figures, and look about you in daily life. Some people from EU countries have come here. Some haven't. Some will stay, some will go back home. London is full of French people (it would be one of France's largest Cities if it was in France) but they don't make many headlines.

[anonymous-user]

Rovinghawk said:

Breadvan72 said:

In Texas, and other traditionally conservative parts of the US there is a lot of poverty and the associated ignorance and fear. The oil money does not spread as widely or fairly as it should. One of the ironies of the US is that, broadly speaking, the pro Federal Democrat States raise the Federal revenues, and the anti Federal Republican States spend them.

Interesting- do you have a source I can read?

Wiki tries to be fairly neutral on this, it appears:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_...

These two pieces are op eds from a Democrat standpoint, so apply a sensible discount for spin, but they do at least indicate sources in census and IRS data.

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/surprise-red-states...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/2...

[anonymous-user]

brenflys777 said:

Breadvan72 - you've stated that ukip/Farage are allied to a neo-fascist group. In what way are they allied?

UKIP and the Lega Nord, an Italian Neo-Fascist party, are the two leading components of a group of MEPs called "Europe of Freedom and Democracy". Farage is or was until recently Co-President of the Group. The other Co-President is one of the the leaders of the Lega Nord, and has spoken in praise of the ideas of Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik.

[anonymous-user]

Re "Oh goodie, they are scared of Nige" (whoever "they" are supposed to be). It might just be that those who think that Farage is ludicrous think that he's ludicrous. NPE is not PH, and PH is not the World, so what passes for consensus opinion in here doesn't often reflect reality. Farage has a populist appeal to the gullible, the ill informed, and the angry who are easily taken in by alarmism and plain lying, and seduced by a nostalgic vision of a Britain that never existed in reality, but he is no mould breaker. Of course UKIP will do very well in the Euro elections, surfing on a tide of public antipathy to politics in general and the EU in particular, and there is much about the EU to deplore. General election 2015: UKIP will struggle to get a single MP. I reckon somewhere between zero and three but I would be inclined to bet closer to the zero end than the three end.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 8th April 14:56

[anonymous-user]

Have you seen UKIP's ideas for replacing the CAP farm subsidy with, er, the non CAP farm subsidy? Small Government, self reliant nation of small traders, eh?

[anonymous-user]

xjsdriver said:

Damn!!! BV you beat me to it.....

No harm in saying eveything twice, xjs. Remember, you're talking to 'kippers. Type slowly!