NHS RECRUITEMENT POLICY

[mrpurple]

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

Sorry to disabuse you, but your facts are incorrect. The NHS is still recruiting widely from many countries, including The Philippines - I know this because I spoke a Filipino nurse who started at Stanmore just two weeks back.

disabuse....will look that up.

"no longer happens to any great degree if at all"..you may well know 1 or 2 but I know for a fact this would be a very, very small % (assuming she migrated here for the job and was not here already)

I can't find many up to date links but know somebody that is in Portugal doing mass interviews as I type...no such mass recruitment drive is going on in the Philippines or any of the other countries I mentioned.... why do you think that is?

http://www.gwh.nhs.uk/about-us/news/nurses-from-ir...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/20/nur...

ps I had 2 ops at RNOH Stanmore and had to be transferred elsewhere to put them right.

Edited by mrpurple on Thursday 24th April 12:11

[mrpurple]

NPI said:

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

NPI said:

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

Look, you stated as a fact that the only recruitment for nurses is now from Spain and Portugal. I gave one example of a Filipino nurse I spoke to last week who came here directly from her home country to work here. She was the only nurse who was treating my son, and I didn't go around the National Orthopaedic Centre looking for other nurses to question.

Rather than flogging this particular horse and asking about Australian nurses etc, why not do some research BEFORE posting.

Perhaps you should read all the post rather than just skimming it? "no longer happens to any great degree if at all"

So you based your reply on the 1 nurse you met yet call me out for not doing research and think you have disabused me on that basis?

So are you stating that all nurses are recruited based on their skills etc regardless of their country of origin? How about a link or 2 to back up your argument?

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

Edited to add: There were precisely three people in this country who could do the operation on my son's leg, all of whom were at Stanmore. They've been completely wonderful, despite the rubbish facilities. I simply could not have asked for better care for him. Sorry to hear that your experience was different, but I'd say that it's not the norm.

Edited by longblackcoat on Thursday 24th April 12:22

Just seen your edit....... really honestly pleased your son got the treatment he deserved....I was just unfortunate but sincerely hope, as you say, it's not the norm.

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

How about a link or 2 to back up your argument?

It's not my argument though, is it?

You made a statement. It so happens that I happen to have knowledge that disproves your statement. But now you'd like me to do the work to prove just how wrong you were? No thanks; I have no desire to get involved in yet another mud-slinging, point-scoring thread that will inevitable descend into a UKIP-flavoured immigration debate.

Ahhm oot.

Sorry I am confused..you stated the 1 person you met disabused me....by doing so you made it your argument......

disabuse
ˌdɪsəˈbjuːz/
verb
past tense: disabused; past participle: disabused

1.
persuade (someone) that an idea or belief is mistaken.
"he quickly disabused me of my fanciful notions"
synonyms: disillusion, undeceive, correct, set right/straight, open the eyes of, enlighten, reveal the truth to, wake up, disenchant, shatter the illusions of, make sadder and wiser

I am happy to be proven wrong providing it can be substantiated, but you don't seem to want or be able to do that. Fine way for a legal expert to behave IMHO, but that is your choice i suppose.

ps It does seem others have other views and opinions that I am currently taking on board and may even end with me posting an acceptance of being wrong.

[mrpurple]

blindswelledrat said:

Can you evidence your assertion that people are only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? The team my daughter is currently dealing with consists of 4 British, 2 South Africans,1 Spanish, 1 Scandinavian and two Germans. I have seen a lot of the NHS lately and it doesn't seem to resemble your claim at all
Also, this idea of the NHS doing international recruiting roadshows Im pretty sceptical of.
I would hazard a guess (which I am stating as a guess as opposed to your stating of 'facts') that the NHS advertise and people apply and that they have no control over the general nationality?

Unfortunately I can't evidence it without treading on a few delicate toes sorry....... Someone close to me spent a long time in India on a recruitment drive a few years ago, her successor is now doing exactly the same in Portugal, nowhere else. It may well be this is an isolated decision and that other trusts are recruiting elsewhere in the world and will be happy to admit I am wrong if so.

Putting the issue of why overseas recruitment is needed at all, If I am correct then why have not continue to advertise / recruit the best from wherever they are in the world and not just EU countries?

[mrpurple]

iphonedyou said:

mrpurple said:

Sorry I am confused..you stated the 1 person you met disabused me....by doing so you made it your argument......

disabuse
ˌdɪsəˈbjuːz/
verb
past tense: disabused; past participle: disabused

1.
persuade (someone) that an idea or belief is mistaken.
"he quickly disabused me of my fanciful notions"
synonyms: disillusion, undeceive, correct, set right/straight, open the eyes of, enlighten, reveal the truth to, wake up, disenchant, shatter the illusions of, make sadder and wiser

I am happy to be proven wrong providing it can be substantiated, but you don't seem to want or be able to do that. Fine way for a legal expert to behave IMHO, but that is your choice i suppose.

ps It does seem others have other views and opinions that I am currently taking on board and may even end with me posting an acceptance of being wrong.

I'd imagine longblackcoat has taken exception to your starting a thread with no evidence, then waiting for him and others to post evidence to state that you're wrong.

With respect, you should have included evidence backing your assertion in the original post.

In hindsight you are probably right although based on current personal knowledge and few up to date links exist.

[mrpurple]

P-Jay said:

I'm only guessing, but the Wife's a Nurse and knows lots of other Nurses from all over the globe.

It's not some clandestine policy change to bring in Nurses with from certain places and exclude others to meet any quotas or anything like that.

I'd guess it's all about effective use of budget - you could go setting your stall out in Aus and NZ, but their economy barely hit a hiccup through the recession so UK wages don't seem as good as they were pre-08 so you could spend £X on advertising poorly paid jobs (by comparison) in a rainy little island about as far away from their friends and family you can get, or set your stall out in the newest parts of Europe where a UK nurses wages looks like a lottery win.

Point taken on Aus & NZ. What about India?

[mrpurple]

blindswelledrat said:

mrpurple said:

Someone close to me spent a long time in India on a recruitment drive a few years ago, her successor is now doing exactly the same in Portugal, nowhere else. It may well be this is an isolated decision and that other trusts are recruiting elsewhere in the world and will be happy to admit I am wrong if so.

That's fair enough. That wasn't clear in your OP. Is this person the only person who does her job in that trust? Or could she have colleagues who are doing the same elsewhere?

mrpurple said:

Putting the issue of why overseas recruitment is needed at all, If I am correct then why have not continue to advertise / recruit the best from wherever they are in the world and not just EU countries?

Again just a guess but I suspect they do. Perhaps they advertise as normal to whoever may apply, and when there is a shortfall of applicants then they will select a destination to do a recruitment drive? I suspect the selection of any destination takes into account qualifications etc?

The only person recruiting for this particular area of work and was directed solely & specifically towards Portugal nowhere else. But this after lack of success recruiting in the UK to be fair.

[mrpurple]

Bill said:

ETA I know two hospitals local to us have recently had recruitment drives in Italy and Spain.

Edited by Bill on Thursday 24th April 13:15

In which case this shows it is EU wide and not just Portugal...still would like to know why not India, which has historically been used, notwithstanding others experience of a recent Filipino nurse.

[mrpurple]

Bill said:

mrpurple said:

Point taken on Aus & NZ. What about India?

Are Indian nurses better than Portuguese? (Genuine question btw, I have no idea.) Or did we used to look in India because it was cheapest?

Much as it would be great if the NHS was searching the world for the best staff I suspect money is the main driver.

Contrary to what others may think that is exactly the sort of reply I would have liked. I don't know the answer myself, but if it can be proven that it is now cheaper to recruit the same quality, experience and skills from the EU than worldwide then that is a good enough reason for me and even............wait for it......... a good enough reason not to recruit elsewhere in the world.

Why we should need to do so is another matter entirely but will leave that one to others.