Missing Dossier ! ?
Discussion
This, I suspect, will eventually get out into the open properly, just a matter of time before we have a 'Milly Dowler' hacking moment and the full story of these vile people in the top of our society will be revealed !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28125537
Well done to Simon Danczuk for not letting go on this one....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28125537
Well done to Simon Danczuk for not letting go on this one....
Strangely enough.... I think the missing dossier is a bit of red herring, albeit a very useful one for Simon D & Tom W to help raise the issue.
There are / will be people who have investigated these claims at the time and subsequently, their recall will have far more detail than the missing dossier, and I would hope enough information to start proceedings.
Here's why I think this will not go away this time :
Post Leverson the press have an itch they want to scratch, the cosy relationships are in part broken, I believe there will be an element of revenge in the media and justification for no regulation. It's all too tempting for the Ediitors because it's a win win - great story, get the politicians, aligned to the public outrage and leverage the situation to stop regulation.
Private Eye will be unmissable read for the next few months !
There are / will be people who have investigated these claims at the time and subsequently, their recall will have far more detail than the missing dossier, and I would hope enough information to start proceedings.
Here's why I think this will not go away this time :
Post Leverson the press have an itch they want to scratch, the cosy relationships are in part broken, I believe there will be an element of revenge in the media and justification for no regulation. It's all too tempting for the Ediitors because it's a win win - great story, get the politicians, aligned to the public outrage and leverage the situation to stop regulation.
Private Eye will be unmissable read for the next few months !
Derek Smith said:
Powerful people have ways of protecting themselves.
A lot of what we've read over the years suggests there is some form of cadre protecting its own.
On top of that we have the various security systems which see their role entirely as protecting the person, the position, the state. It is easy enough to convince someone whose job is protection that others are out to get their subject, that it is all a communist/fascist plot designed by those who wish to bring down the establishment or that the edifice needs protecting and whatever it was in that file is part of the cost.
We've seen it in the catholic cover-up of child abuse - the needs of the church (virtually a state) are greater than the needs of justice, and in any case they can twist everything so that it is logical. I can't believe that all catholic vicars were happy with the cover up but felt a bit 'what are you going to do' sort of thing.
The same would go for the state.
SB officers are told all the time that it is they who are the real thin blue line, protecting the wall in the sense of Nicholson's monologue in A Few Good Men.
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded . . . I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way . . .
One of the great political criticisms in film, remarkably for an American one. It explains a mentality: those who covered up the dossier/Cyril Smith/the all so many others did so because it was important not to have breeches in the wall.
MPs like to think they run the country despite everyone knowing it is multi-national corporations. Or rather like to make out they run the country, rather than trying to run it down. There is an 'in-crowd'. Threaten one and you are in the frame. They have power, influence and weaponry.
It goes on all the time and only on occasion does it falter. The Profumo Affair springs to mind. The Ward trial is well worth reading up on, the judge's summing up being, to put it kindly, a classic of its kind. Ward killed himself, Keeler was a pauper and Profumo got a CBE. I'm not suggesting he did not deserve it - indeed just the reverse. He was seen as a hero by charities for the homeless in the East End. But, as always, the establishment wins and the DBE was there just to prove it.
But, of course, such things wouldn't happen nowadays. Any police officer who believed there was some form of cover-up could go to the press confident that his job, reputation and freedom were not at risk. We have a totally free press with laws to protect journalists who get it wrong for the right reasons. Papers and other media outlets are not controlled by lawyers whose advice must be followed. And no government branch can punish the press for upsetting the establishment.
We had mosley apparently getting his socks of by buying women in order to beat and humiliate them yet search for the evidence of this online and Google says it didn't happen. So now we can't say it did.
This is the perfect breeding ground for those in power to indulge their whims and desires. I doubt it is any worse than it used to be but I would bet it is no better. The trials we've had where TV celebrities have been found guilty and imprisoned do nothing to convince me that the same proportion of MPs aren't at it as much as ever.
Smith's files, this dossier and no doubt more: the establishment looks after itself.
Derek - A thoughtful, well written piece ( as ever )A lot of what we've read over the years suggests there is some form of cadre protecting its own.
On top of that we have the various security systems which see their role entirely as protecting the person, the position, the state. It is easy enough to convince someone whose job is protection that others are out to get their subject, that it is all a communist/fascist plot designed by those who wish to bring down the establishment or that the edifice needs protecting and whatever it was in that file is part of the cost.
We've seen it in the catholic cover-up of child abuse - the needs of the church (virtually a state) are greater than the needs of justice, and in any case they can twist everything so that it is logical. I can't believe that all catholic vicars were happy with the cover up but felt a bit 'what are you going to do' sort of thing.
The same would go for the state.
SB officers are told all the time that it is they who are the real thin blue line, protecting the wall in the sense of Nicholson's monologue in A Few Good Men.
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded . . . I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way . . .
One of the great political criticisms in film, remarkably for an American one. It explains a mentality: those who covered up the dossier/Cyril Smith/the all so many others did so because it was important not to have breeches in the wall.
MPs like to think they run the country despite everyone knowing it is multi-national corporations. Or rather like to make out they run the country, rather than trying to run it down. There is an 'in-crowd'. Threaten one and you are in the frame. They have power, influence and weaponry.
It goes on all the time and only on occasion does it falter. The Profumo Affair springs to mind. The Ward trial is well worth reading up on, the judge's summing up being, to put it kindly, a classic of its kind. Ward killed himself, Keeler was a pauper and Profumo got a CBE. I'm not suggesting he did not deserve it - indeed just the reverse. He was seen as a hero by charities for the homeless in the East End. But, as always, the establishment wins and the DBE was there just to prove it.
But, of course, such things wouldn't happen nowadays. Any police officer who believed there was some form of cover-up could go to the press confident that his job, reputation and freedom were not at risk. We have a totally free press with laws to protect journalists who get it wrong for the right reasons. Papers and other media outlets are not controlled by lawyers whose advice must be followed. And no government branch can punish the press for upsetting the establishment.
We had mosley apparently getting his socks of by buying women in order to beat and humiliate them yet search for the evidence of this online and Google says it didn't happen. So now we can't say it did.
This is the perfect breeding ground for those in power to indulge their whims and desires. I doubt it is any worse than it used to be but I would bet it is no better. The trials we've had where TV celebrities have been found guilty and imprisoned do nothing to convince me that the same proportion of MPs aren't at it as much as ever.
Smith's files, this dossier and no doubt more: the establishment looks after itself.
I hope you are wrong for all the right reasons - justice for poor victims would be great for all, apart from people who are the 'list' and no doubt in the dossier.
number 46 said:
MarshPhantom said:
Leon Brittan has been arested over "historical rape allegation"
See, told you he was most likely to loose the files !!! I mean if your name was in the files you would loose them too!!!!!!Elroy Blue said:
David Mellor, David Davis, Theresa May...you've all had big mouths for the last four years. Comment on this:
Tory Chief Whip said
So... in fairness to David Mellor he was on C4News last night and albeit I only caught the end of the interview I can report he sounded and looked completely ridicules and out of touch with the current situation, whereas Norman Tebbit was spot on in his interview the previous day.Tory Chief Whip said
BTW Mellor was trying to defend Leon Brittan from 'scurrilous rumours' and suggestion of failure in Office, me thinks that interview may come back to haunt David Mellor ;-)
Regarding the missing documents :
Let us assume that most are some form of statements from people, reporting of progress and
summation, then I would hazard a guess they can be 'replaced' or they weren't significant anyway.
I am less concerned about the documents, more the lack of action from CPS / Police, or should I say
the reasons holding back action. I feel shades of phone hacking, why is it always the Met !
Can I put something out there.....
Is there something about a concentration of power that is, by it's very nature, corrupting ?
Perhaps Media / Police / IS / Politicians all based in London, sometimes it feels like an integrated model ( in a bad way )
I'll put my Northern Tin Hat on
Let us assume that most are some form of statements from people, reporting of progress and
summation, then I would hazard a guess they can be 'replaced' or they weren't significant anyway.
I am less concerned about the documents, more the lack of action from CPS / Police, or should I say
the reasons holding back action. I feel shades of phone hacking, why is it always the Met !
Can I put something out there.....
Is there something about a concentration of power that is, by it's very nature, corrupting ?
Perhaps Media / Police / IS / Politicians all based in London, sometimes it feels like an integrated model ( in a bad way )
I'll put my Northern Tin Hat on
MarshPhantom said:
FiF said:
Can understand that a small percentage of all documents go missing but if 100% of docs on paedo MPs go missing that is more than a bit odd.
t just hit the fan Names are named for the first time in 'mainstream' media !
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband have an inherited a right mess here, I almost feel sorry for them because let's be clear this is just not a Tory problem.....
When this has finished, it will make MP's expenses and phone hacking look like a tea party ! !
Must go.... Daily Politics in 2 mins, should be interesting
Cameron, Clegg and Milliband have an inherited a right mess here, I almost feel sorry for them because let's be clear this is just not a Tory problem.....
When this has finished, it will make MP's expenses and phone hacking look like a tea party ! !
Must go.... Daily Politics in 2 mins, should be interesting
Derek Smith said:
I've got a high regard for Butler-Sloss. Now there is a stain not only on her brother but on her as well. One will always wonder if she knew all the time and accepted the post for her own reasons.
Sleaze upon sleaze upon sleaze.
But let's not just blame MPs. Others knew and either cooperated or turned a blind eye - which is, of course, cooperating.
The press must have known. The police must have known. The civil service must have known. We in turn must know why the bosses of the three, as well of those of the MPs, did nothing.
Building on this point, I thought that the IS job was to screen people in Govt to ensure they could not be subject to 'leverage' from foreign powers ?Sleaze upon sleaze upon sleaze.
But let's not just blame MPs. Others knew and either cooperated or turned a blind eye - which is, of course, cooperating.
The press must have known. The police must have known. The civil service must have known. We in turn must know why the bosses of the three, as well of those of the MPs, did nothing.
Clearly I got this completely wrong !
Actually now I come to think about it, it was quite a ridicules thought, because 2 years ago we had the Minister of Defence who is a closet homosexual employing his younger lover as a 'consultant' to enrich himself. And today I heard Cameron was going to bring him back into Goverment !
Tis a strange world these people occupy....
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