Missouri Riots

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Surprised this hasn't been posted already?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28793865

The issue of race has never really gone away in the southern states of the US and has bubbled to the surface once again.

Whilst the stats re % of the population who are African American vs the % AA in local Govt / Police is pretty stark I have to admit my first reaction was if 67% of the population were AA why weren't more putting themselves forward for election? Am I missing something? (genuine question rather than sarcasm)

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I've got to say this whole thing is, for me, much greater than a single guy being shot in a minor town in a southern (ish) state of the US. Almost everything that's been discussed from a black guy being shot by a white cop, to crime stats, to representation in 'establishment' organisations such as police, local and national government and corporations hints at the underlying problem the US still has with racism. A friend of mine attended a BUNA camp in South Virginia in the 90's and there was a single black UK student at that camp. He was told in no uncertain terms not to go into town on his own and not to go into any bars etc without consulting the staff a the park first. I suspect it wouldn't be too much different today?

I've been interested to see/read various opinions that it's much harder for Obama to address the race issues in the US because he's black.

I can't see them finding a solution to thier problems any time soon but it does seem thier right to free speech doesn't help matters.

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bhstewie said:

Foppo said:

bhstewie said:

I think the simple reality is very few people know what happened, and at least one of those that does is dead.

I don't really get why racism seems to be implied practically every time a black man is shot dead by a Police officer.

Because the copper is white and put six bullets in a unarmed black man with his arms up.Predominantly black people area and no black coppers or very few.

Obama is a puppet and he will never be the saviour of black people in the States.

Not saying the perp was a angel but he didn't deserve to die that way.

Maybe, maybe not - that's my point nobody knows but there's this assumption that a white cop killed the guy because he was black?

Perhaps it wasn't justified, the investigation will determine that, but would the outcome have been different had the victim been white i.e. did colour play a part in the pulling of the trigger?

I'm just not a fan of the race card being played almost every time someone black is killed by someone white before the facts are established.

I don't think it's solely about a black guy being shot by a white cop - that's just the catalyst for much deeper unrest being expressed by a predominantly black community. Pretty much every indicator shows the average black american as being worse off than the average white american and they're getting a bit hacked off about it.

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supersingle said:

If the problems with black Americans are all due to white racism why is it that Asian Americans do so well? Are Asian Americans not subject to white racism?

Perhaps the problems of black Americans are due to their attitudes towards education, employment, family and generally bettering themselves without constant government assistance.

Are you saying black americans have a genetic disposition towards laziness, apathy towards family and a need to be looked after rather than bettering themselves?

If not, and I assume that's the case, you must surely agree the cause is environment?

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unrepentant said:

alfaman said:

I have to think 'victim mentality' has had a lot to do with lack of success. Slavery was ended over 150? Years ago and equal rights were enshrined at least a generation or 2 ago...

How come immigrants to the US from countries such as Vietnam, china, Philippines etc seem to be much more successful from a standing start less than 40 years ago without the benefit of citizenship, little cultural understanding and not being able to speak good English ( OK .. some may do..) or having a US education...

Seem to have more success than many in the Afro-American community?

OK. Let's consider that. So a generation ago (in living memory for a great many people) African Americans were legally segregated in many areas. They weren't allowed to eat or drink or ride a bus with white folks, they weren't even allowed to use the same toilet. Think about that because to most Britons that should seem both abhorrent and almost unbelievable. Then we had the civil rights act of 1964 and things started to change. Amongst the things that didn't start to change is the attitude of many whites who had been bought up to believe that the "negro" was dirty and inferior and unfit to mix with them or their families.

Now, back then when "coloreds" were segregated they generally lived in the worst areas, usually in abject poverty and racism was literally institutionalized so most of them had the worst jobs if they could get a job at all. Their children received inferior public funded education so their prospects were severely reduced from birth.

So your starting point is a community that is segregated, living in the worst most run down areas, poor, discriminated against and poorly educated. What do you think happened next? You think someone flipped a light switch and everything was great? The reality is that social mobility takes time in the best of circumstances, in circumstances where you have ingrained, institutionally endorsed hatred of a person because of the colour of their skin it takes a lot longer.

The reality is that black folks didn't all up and move to Martha's Vineyard, they continued to live in the same run down areas they had lived in, their kids continued to be educated in the same cash starved public schools, they continued to be unable to get good jobs or afford healthcare and they continued (and continue) to be the subject of appalling racism.

Excellent post. Combine this with earlier comments regarding the devolved US tax system where the tax take from your community funds your community and you have a system that's almost (is?) designed to ensure those people (black,white, hispanic, chinese et al) in poorer areas stay just where they are (that wouldn't happen in an advanced western society now would it?!). Only the most determined leave. The remainder are stuck with poor jobs and low aspirations which are then instilled into the next generation and away we go again...

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LucreLout said:

So there are no black's in expensive areas and no poor white communities not similarly aflame? Really?!

Statistically speaking everything is on a bell curve by which I mean you'll find examples of all types of people of all colours spread across the spectrum from extremely poor to extremely wealthy. The point is where the does the mean of the group in question lie? I haven't looked up a reference for you but you'll find, without much searching, that the af am community is much worse of by most measures.

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I think the point in all this is that there's no single solution. Those caught in the impoverished areas must strive to improve thier lot and not revert to crime and the 'if noone will help me I can't be bothered to help myself' mentality (which is the point being made by the black leaders). At the same time the state needs to look long and hard at what it can do to:

- neutralise race bias. Changing the laws 50 years ago on race is all well and good but did nothing to change the mindset of whole swaithes of the US (majority popultion) who look upon 'non whites' as a sub species with all that that sort of bigotry brings with it.

- significantly improve funding to poorer areas. Poor areas generally stay poor under the current system and you can see the evidence for this across the US. If you live in an area with crap schools, crap housing, crap jobs and few prospects you need to work an order of magnitude harder than a middle class person in a pleasant suburb to suceed and take a whole bunch of knocks in the process.

- try to ensure situations where a 70% black population are governed and policed by an overwhelmingly white administration. Such situations can surely never end well.