Benefit Smart Cards to be introduced
Discussion
previous discussions have pointed out the obvious issues
1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
mph1977 said:
previous discussions have pointed out the obvious issues
1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
This is exactly what would happen.1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
Haven't they tried this already with vouchers (Sodexo).
iirc didn't last long for 2 reasons, ooman rights
but the major problem, they were using vouchers to buy large value items eg TV's then returning them and being refunded cash. Cash then used to buy all the things the vouchers were supposed to stop them buying (booze and fags).
iirc didn't last long for 2 reasons, ooman rights
but the major problem, they were using vouchers to buy large value items eg TV's then returning them and being refunded cash. Cash then used to buy all the things the vouchers were supposed to stop them buying (booze and fags).
another one to throw in the mix - how many market traders take cards ? best time / place for cheap meat and greengrocery items is the end of the day i nthe markets when traders don;t want to pack stuff up ... i've previously had 2 * '£10 trays' and an extra pack of sausages for a tenner at the end of the trading day...
It will never work - a nice pre election soundbite but that's as far as it will go.
And anyway if irresponsible people want to spend their benefits on alcohol, cigs etc then let them. Given the level of tax on these products at least the taxpayers are getting the majority of their money back.
And anyway if irresponsible people want to spend their benefits on alcohol, cigs etc then let them. Given the level of tax on these products at least the taxpayers are getting the majority of their money back.
Sir Humphrey said:
More expensive to organise than the current system and it distorts the markets and gives them less control over what they spend money on. Negative income tax please.
They use this system in California, people can go shopping in the supermarket, the printed till receipt is detailed and only certain things are allowed to be bought on the card. If anything "unlisted" is on the till receipt the supermarket gets the whole payment refused by the card issuer. Thus a lot of abuse gets stopped at the till. Anything which is not on the "list" has to be paid for in cash separately. Works well......as only the larger supermarkets can use this system and abuse affects the till receipts of the supermarket!Obviously alcohol and tobacco in any form is not on the social services list!
Edited by JMGS4 on Tuesday 30th September 07:34
If we follow that Californian system then that will mean a nice donation to Tory coffers from Tesco or Asda,to get the contracts
Is there any evidence that there are extra costs caused to the DWP by the plebs spending on booze etc? How many get emergency payments because they spend it all on booze,rather than losing a cheque say? Obviously the NHS and social costs but AFAIK there is no suggestion its just there for junkies and drunks,but all the unemployed in an area, who will be unfairly restricted.
Is there any evidence that there are extra costs caused to the DWP by the plebs spending on booze etc? How many get emergency payments because they spend it all on booze,rather than losing a cheque say? Obviously the NHS and social costs but AFAIK there is no suggestion its just there for junkies and drunks,but all the unemployed in an area, who will be unfairly restricted.
kowalski655 said:
If we follow that Californian system then that will mean a nice donation to Tory coffers from Tesco or Asda,to get the contracts
Is there any evidence that there are extra costs caused to the DWP by the plebs spending on booze etc? How many get emergency payments because they spend it all on booze,rather than losing a cheque say? Obviously the NHS and social costs but AFAIK there is no suggestion its just there for junkies and drunks,but all the unemployed in an area, who will be unfairly restricted.
The Californian system as described above sounds fine to me. Is there any evidence that there are extra costs caused to the DWP by the plebs spending on booze etc? How many get emergency payments because they spend it all on booze,rather than losing a cheque say? Obviously the NHS and social costs but AFAIK there is no suggestion its just there for junkies and drunks,but all the unemployed in an area, who will be unfairly restricted.
Less to do with the cost and everything to do with benefits being a safety net not a comfort blanket. If you want to smoke or drink, or have absolute freedom to spend money the way you want to, there are options available for the vast majority. If there's enough on the card to buy expensive electrical goods then the amount being paid is too high.
As for implementation costs, the processes and technology are largely already there. The govt even owns a high street bank it could leverage.
We also need to get back to rent going direct to landlords IMO. Cash benefits should be largely unnecessary.
Would ALL gas and electric companies take the card?
What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
What happens when the plumbing bursts in the middle of the night,have you got to find a plumber that will take the card?
What happens when the dog needs the vet?
Will bus companies take the card so people can get to interviews?
Need a suit for interviews,will Matalan take the card?
Kids need uniform that only one shop sells (yes this is true,complete monopoly on badged uniform where I live),will he take the card?
The list is endless,ridiculous idea.Also never get why people moan about unemployed smokers because most of that money goes straight back to the government.
I think its a darn good idea.
On the balance of things in today's society where many seem to think they have every entitlement to a celebrity lifestyle; to either have the option of giving out public money to people and then expect them to spend that money responsibly on items that one would expect them to spend it on.......or having a benefit card that will force the money to be responsibly spent is a no-brainer.
Obvious opposition to this idea will be the bookies and off-licences and the lefties.
On the balance of things in today's society where many seem to think they have every entitlement to a celebrity lifestyle; to either have the option of giving out public money to people and then expect them to spend that money responsibly on items that one would expect them to spend it on.......or having a benefit card that will force the money to be responsibly spent is a no-brainer.
Obvious opposition to this idea will be the bookies and off-licences and the lefties.
Instead of coming up with schemes to allow the scroungers new ways to cheat the system, they should cut all dole monies and simply hand out basic rations and clothing from government centres. Take away the incentive to sit on your arse all day, and make being a slacker as miserable as it should be. Seeing the scroungers wearing a government issue garment would also bring in some social shame which would be a good motivator.
It would also be useful to see the able bodied put to work, and they could perhaps be detained for use on large projects, like working on the roads.
It would also be useful to see the able bodied put to work, and they could perhaps be detained for use on large projects, like working on the roads.
mph1977 said:
previous discussions have pointed out the obvious issues
1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
Yes, the idea has holes in it the size of the Channel tunnel.1. friendly neighbourhood shopkeepers overriding their EPOS system to put banned goods through as 'sundry groceries', assuming they have EPOS and don;t just use a dumb till and standalone card machine
2. 'scum' style exchange rates of pennies in the pound on 'good' goods traded for contraband goods.
Baryonyx said:
It would also be useful to see the able bodied put to work, and they could perhaps be detained for use on large projects, like working on the roads.
and they could be paid for working on said roads,negating the need for benefits in the first place ,or do you mean working for free for the head of the local councils brother in laws company that gets all the contracts for road works ?wc98 said:
and they could be paid for working on said roads,negating the need for benefits in the first place ,or do you mean working for free for the head of the local councils brother in laws company that gets all the contracts for road works ?
No, they should be working for free. Consider it paying back the bill for the valueless lives they've lived so far taking money from hard working tax payers. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff