England, Wales and Scotland as indipendant states.

[Liokault]

So, after last nights debate, I can't see why we (me, the English) really need or really want the Scotish for anything other than historic, sentimental reasons. I think that as the indipendant even vote was so close, they clearly don't care that much either...I mean it really could have gone either way.

The Welsh have I think a deep dislike of the English and if they had a stronger national party, such as Scotland has, they would be pushing for their own referendum.

So, what do the English get out of the current situation? It's clear that if labour form our next government (possibly engineered by the Scots nationals) then the English won't have a government hat they voted for (to use Scotland's argument).

Isn't it time for the UK to look at the bigger picture? Why was the main emphasis of last night debate about keeping the Torys out of power, clearly the implication is that the Torys will be Englands choice.

[Liokault]

But leave aside the figures, my guessing is that those change by the day and most people don't feel overly strongly.

The feeling I'm getting from the Welsh is really anti English and they seem to really feel like they are getting a bad deal out of the UK. For the Scotts, there was only a big in it and again, many there feel that they could do OK on this own.

For the English, I'm wondering just what we get out of the Union other than a left wing bias. We certainly carry the Welsh and I'm just not seeing the benifit of the Scott's over all, certainly after the cluster fruk that was the referendum, every promise was a benifit going north. What's comming South exactly?

[Liokault]

jmorgan said:

Liokault said:

The feeling I'm getting from the Welsh is really anti English and they seem to really feel like they are getting a bad deal out of the UK.

Where from?

Well, the Welsh mostly.

Both of the last times I went into Wales I came away regretting it, due to the massively anti English feeling I felt.

I also have a Welsh friend, talking to him, he would love nothing more than to see an independent Wales, he comically openly States his hatred for England, despite now having lived most of his life here. I don't think his view is uncommon. I recently spent a business trip to the states with a Welsh guy, his view was broadly similar.

[Liokault]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Life would have been a lot simpler if the Anglo Saxons, or at least the Angles, hadn't come to Britain at all. They could have set up England somewhere like the south of France. By now the various tribes of Celts would just be arguing with each other and the English would be sitting peacefully watching topless sunbathers on the French Riviera.

I believe William took a day to conquer England but when it came to Wales he realised nobody actually ruled the place they had Princes all over the show hence the Castle building programme.
Maybe the Union never was a Union afterall

Is Wales part of the Union? Where's the dragon on the Union Jack? I think that Wales is part of the Union in the same way as the Wirrle is part of the Union.

[Liokault]

But this is just turning into a Scotland indpendance debate thread again.

The direction I was looking at was more, why are we together? What do the English get out of Scotland and Wales? Why were we so keen to keep the union together! What happens if we let Wales go? Conversely, what do the scots and Welsh get out of us. I used to this if was quite leaf in the case of the Welsh that the English were carrying them, but after the debate, they clearly aren't happy with how much we are kicking up to them

From an English poin of view, I see no reason other than historical to keep a union with either Scotland or Wales. NI is a bit different.