Is England shifting ever leftward?
Discussion
Watching the election unfold feels a bit Alice falling ever deeper into the rabbit hole...
Scotland used to be solidly Conservative. Scots had a stereotypical image that was careful with money and hard working. Typically conservative (small "c") and naturally Conservative (capital "C").
One way or another, Thatcher turned the Scots against the Conservatives. And so they fell into the arms of Labour. Until now: they've fallen into the arms of the SNP. The SNP's policies appear robustly more left wing than Labour, even under Miliband and Balls, but hidden behind the fig leaf of the word "progressive".
How did this happen? How did a country that had a reputation for hard work and being careful with money slide towards a mentality of state-provided welfare and high public spending? Is it simply a case of "if you show people that it is an easier life for them if someone else pays for it, they won't argue"?
If so, is England sliding the same way? The Thatcher years are long buried now, and still politically radioactive. Blair and Brown gave the public a taste of a left leaning welfare existence, and the Coalition's attempts to wean it off the welfare tit have not apparently been well received.
Conventional wisdom says that low unemployment, a stable and growing economy and recovery signs should see the Cons or the Coalition as a shoe-in. But that's not happening. Is it because England - or at least a voting majority of it - has acquired a taste for a lifestyle that can be provided at someone else's expense? And if so, how does any vaguely right of centre party reverse that trend (and no, the answer is not as simple as "vote UKIP", any more than it is "Vote Conservative")?
Scotland used to be solidly Conservative. Scots had a stereotypical image that was careful with money and hard working. Typically conservative (small "c") and naturally Conservative (capital "C").
One way or another, Thatcher turned the Scots against the Conservatives. And so they fell into the arms of Labour. Until now: they've fallen into the arms of the SNP. The SNP's policies appear robustly more left wing than Labour, even under Miliband and Balls, but hidden behind the fig leaf of the word "progressive".
How did this happen? How did a country that had a reputation for hard work and being careful with money slide towards a mentality of state-provided welfare and high public spending? Is it simply a case of "if you show people that it is an easier life for them if someone else pays for it, they won't argue"?
If so, is England sliding the same way? The Thatcher years are long buried now, and still politically radioactive. Blair and Brown gave the public a taste of a left leaning welfare existence, and the Coalition's attempts to wean it off the welfare tit have not apparently been well received.
Conventional wisdom says that low unemployment, a stable and growing economy and recovery signs should see the Cons or the Coalition as a shoe-in. But that's not happening. Is it because England - or at least a voting majority of it - has acquired a taste for a lifestyle that can be provided at someone else's expense? And if so, how does any vaguely right of centre party reverse that trend (and no, the answer is not as simple as "vote UKIP", any more than it is "Vote Conservative")?
[quote=Greg66
Scotland used to be solidly Conservative. Scots had a stereotypical image that was careful with money and hard working. Typically conservative (small "c") and naturally Conservative (capital "C").
One way or another, Thatcher turned the Scots against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
When was this exactly?
in 79 Thatcher increased the Tory vote, even though they were already way behind Labour by then.
Scotland used to be solidly Conservative. Scots had a stereotypical image that was careful with money and hard working. Typically conservative (small "c") and naturally Conservative (capital "C").
One way or another, Thatcher turned the Scots against the Conservatives.
[/quote]
When was this exactly?
in 79 Thatcher increased the Tory vote, even though they were already way behind Labour by then.
speedy_thrills said:
Greg66 said:
Conventional wisdom says that low unemployment, a stable and growing economy and recovery signs should see the Cons or the Coalition as a shoe-in. But that's not happening. Is it because England - or at least a voting majority of it - has acquired a taste for a lifestyle that can be provided at someone else's expense? And if so, how does any vaguely right of centre party reverse that trend (and no, the answer is not as simple as "vote UKIP", any more than it is "Vote Conservative")?
I think employment is only a partial read on the economic situation. The price for employment has been inflation adjusted wages falling and most economic gains have went to a very small proportion of society. Overall your average British worker is still worse off than they would have been in 2007.So, in response to your first question, set against that economic backdrop described above people are voting and I think the public view of wealth redistribution is that it's essential to an economically prosperous country. Ed Miliband and Labour are not so astute but the public mood has been swinging towards policies labour have historically championed. Similarly SNP in Scotland. For your average bloke on the street Conservatives policies have been very difficult to swallow (dropping the top tax rate, VAT increases etc.)
The second part of your question pertained to how conservatives can win support. I'd say think about improving the quality of living for ordinary working people probably making about 150-350 quid a week.
Do we think people in this bracket are likely to see themselves as getting a 'fair deal' in society currently or in the near future? When you think about the economic circumstances a lot of ordinary people find themselves in I'm surprised how pro-liberal capitalism the UK is really. One of the biggest changes I'd like to see is no more excuses about a rising tides eventually lifting all boats.
They lost control once, after putting the country in a position where there was no room for error, and they'll do it again.
And it will go wrong again, just like it always does with them.
I expect internationally, the UK is a left wing looking country with its welfare state, NHS, high taxation, free schooling etc.
Despite people trying to paint the left as a Stalinist movement, there's not much difference between the main UK parties as they both fight to occupy the central and central left ground of UK politics.
Despite people trying to paint the left as a Stalinist movement, there's not much difference between the main UK parties as they both fight to occupy the central and central left ground of UK politics.
Colonial said:
I run a successful business and have solid personal finances with little debt. Debt is car which is leased through business. Can afford to buy it outright but works better for me and the business this way.
House is in the process of being bought with mortgage less than 60% of value. Also have an interest in a Greenfield development site.
I consider myself left wing.
HTH.
When your sample population have an interest in 'News, Politics & Economics' that's to be expected no?House is in the process of being bought with mortgage less than 60% of value. Also have an interest in a Greenfield development site.
I consider myself left wing.
HTH.
FredClogs said:
Halb said:
FredClogs said:
Take a look - see which of the worlds economies run a surplus or low deficits, see how those countries are run and managed (Gulf oil states aside), see what their tax burden is. Then compare with our system of loading people up with debt whilst the wealthy sail away into the sunset.
YOu got a list, or a link or something?There's a list of countries ranked by budget deficit. Take a gander
k out of Libya has seen us climb the charts one place.
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