Paris shooting and casualties ?

[Mr_B]

Breaking news

[Mr_B]

Sounds like some tooled-up people are doing drive by shootings from reports.

[Mr_B]

Pesty said:

Reports of 60 hostages.

60 people held in the Bataclan concert hall. I really hope this doesn't end the way I fear it might.
French AP news now reporting 26 dead.

[Mr_B]

BoRED S2upid said:

TankRizzo said:

CAPP0 said:

Wonder it has anything to do with wiping out Emwazi? Although very quick to organise if so.

Seems too pre-planned to be related.

Can't be that much of a coincidence.

Hard to tell. They could have been planning something for a later date and moved it up, but then Emwazi is less well known and relevant to France than he is the US or UK. The problem is doing a drive by shooting takes zero planning if you have a gun and a car. The planning bit is if you have any intention of trying to get away with it. Lee Rigby's killers proves that's doesn't seem a priority of a lot of these loons.

[Mr_B]

Concert raid over with 2 dead terrorists reports french media

[Mr_B]

TTmonkey said:

Curfew in Paris. First since the Nazis were there...

Didn't they do the same thing in the riots about ten years ago when they did a lot of car burning ?

[Mr_B]

simoid said:

Sky News just played a series (a few seconds) of explosive noises from the Balaclan theatre police raid - what would that be?

Sounds like some people have been rescued. I consider that a small victory.

Gun fire, of the police, gunfire of the terrorists , flash bangs of the police storming the concert hall, terrorist grenades. Take your pick.

Edited by Mr_B on Saturday 14th November 00:06

[Mr_B]

Kaj91 said:

Imagine a theater with 10 or 15 citizens with concealed carry permits. We live in an age when evil men have to be killed by good people
— Newt Gingrich (@newtgingrich)November 13, 2015

It is in theory at least possible one could have saved 100 people, but there's an equal chance some wannabe cowboy pulls and gun and starts taking shots thinking he'll be an all-American here tomorrow with the result his actions start the killing that might have otherwise been avoided.
For every one in a million chance of it working out for the best, you also have a gun problem for the whole country with a possible problem of the number of gun deaths rising massively to pay for that one in a million concert hall chance of success.

[Mr_B]

Borders closed seems a bit premature. Trains and airports to remain open.

[Mr_B]

Lucas Ayde said:

Ayahuasca said:

MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. They want more powers to help them investigate? Give it to them.

Yeah, more 24x7 spying on regular citizens will definitely help. uh huh.

Doesn't necessarily mean that. It could mean having the ability to target and gather more detailed info and over a longer time frame on people who you have some info on, and a judges decision to approve it based on evidence.

[Mr_B]

Darko92 said:

I remember watching the TV broadcast many years ago showing Blair shaking hands with Bush stating they're invading Iraq to find WMDs.

This is where this all started. This is why this has happened. The western countries decided to meddle in places where they had no business. They found nothing and it has caused this chain of events.

I am in no means sympathetic with the beliefs of these terrorists. I think they are pathetic cowards and out to create mayhem just for the sake of it. But you can't deny the fact that this was triggered by that bd Blair brown nosing Bush. If we had just left the Middle East alone, nothing would have happened.

I remember seeing the protests against Salman Rushdie and The Satanic Verses in London when I was about 14 years old and wondering why a book could cause so much trouble. I wondered what I was lacking that meant I couldn't get that angry about a book. The answer is one thing - religion.
I could the trouble coming down the line from then on after that, it was then simply a time and numbers game before more of the same crap happened.

Edited by Mr_B on Saturday 14th November 10:33

[Mr_B]

Foppo said:

The majority of the people murdered where in the rock concert.Last time we where in Paris soldiers where patrolling and standing in door alleyways.

After the Charly Hebdo attack why not more protection at big venues like a rock concert.

It might not have stopped the killings but at least with some French Soldiers at the entrance or around the area not so many people would have been shot.

France is a hotbed of dissident people due to their involvement with previous colonies.A clean up is needed I doubt if the politicians will have the guts to follow this through.

You can't protect everyone. While it's easy to say after the event that the Bataclan might be an obvious target and should have had armed guards outside, which they may well have done, even if they did it just shifts the attacks elsewhere, as we also say with restaurants being targeted.

The aim is just to kill as many as possible and done by people who have no aim to escape and indeed had suicide vests on in a scary escalation that's not common to Europe. It could have been the Train Spotters annual convention meeting that was the victim, it matters not who but just to kill as many and spread that fear.

[Mr_B]

jonby said:

Mr_B said:

Foppo said:

The majority of the people murdered where in the rock concert.Last time we where in Paris soldiers where patrolling and standing in door alleyways.

After the Charly Hebdo attack why not more protection at big venues like a rock concert.

It might not have stopped the killings but at least with some French Soldiers at the entrance or around the area not so many people would have been shot.

France is a hotbed of dissident people due to their involvement with previous colonies.A clean up is needed I doubt if the politicians will have the guts to follow this through.

You can't protect everyone. While it's easy to say after the event that the Bataclan might be an obvious target and should have had armed guards outside, which they may well have done, even if they did it just shifts the attacks elsewhere, as we also say with restaurants being targeted.

The aim is just to kill as many as possible and done by people who have no aim to escape and indeed had suicide vests on in a scary escalation that's not common to Europe. It could have been the Train Spotters annual convention meeting that was the victim, it matters not who but just to kill as many and spread that fear.

as I posted a little earlier, the venue has been the subject of attacks historically as the owners are jewish and the band playing there last night have previously played in Israel, commenting at the time they were 'defying' Roger Water's plea that they should not play in Israel

OK, wasn't aware of any history with the venue, but the wider point still stands. Had there been 10 armed police outside the attack just shifts elsewhere. They might like to want to target specific places, but it's just about killing anyone in large numbers now as that is just as effective. It's not a specific target or nothing, they are being encouraged to simply get a gun and kill in any place with large numbers, railway station, shopping center, it matters not.

[Mr_B]

Reports of gunfire and explosions now in eastern Paris.

[Mr_B]

s3fella said:

Mr_B said:

Reports of gunfire and explosions now in eastern Paris.

ffs

Scrub that. Now reported as Banyoles.

[Mr_B]

rscott said:

AFP reporting that one of the attackers was a 'Frenchman' - https://twitter.com/AFP/status/665530187329720322

How long before it emerges they were on a watch list or known to security services but not enough to arrest them on ?

[Mr_B]

People never were going to be properly screened coming from a country in a state of civil war, as I suspect the passport section of the Syrian government isn't emailing over helpful details to EU countries. Add in the fact they are not even being held securely for processing what little info they might have anyway, but simply wandering in and out of countries at will and seemingly encouraged in ever greater numbers thanks to Germany's reckless 'come one and all' stance. Brushing it off as a Greek failure is very lame.

[Mr_B]

129 dead
350 injured
99 in a critical condition

[Mr_B]

La Liga said:

rich85uk said:

MartG said:

Fair point, however not all terrorists will strike at once and not all terrorists will strike at all. Those higher up will be in charge of planning an effective attack and supplying weapons and explosive material, recruiting new members , then there are those who will not participate in direct terrorist activities but will provide financial support and anything else needed to help keep terrorist operations running and undetected.

Then you have those who are not involved at all but support and understand what the terrorists are trying to achieve and i fear this category is quite large...

It makes no sense for radical jihadists to attack at once as we would get utter carnage for a few weeks then peace. It is much more effective to have terror cells across Europe who are able to launch attacks often enough to create fear while still being able to maintain a supply of firearms and explosives, cause divide within Europe which will help to recruit and ultimately the main objective to spread Islam, helped by the fact that over a million more Muslims this year will come to Europe

That picture is meaningless

Fair point then meaningless?

Even if you add numbers of those within the wider organisation it's still a fraction of a % and doesn't justify the crude generalisations displayed by some on here.

It is a pointless and often wheeled out picture after such events. The numbers who actually kill are tiny, but the the damage they can do is huge. These people are the top of the pyramid , the problem being the base is much much wider. How wide ? I don't know. But one of the most shocking things after the last Paris massacre was the number of people who when asked about it, looked down at their feet and could only mutter about how they shouldn't have drawn cartoons and what did they expect.

One of the often cited people in these such events is some idiot going 'hey, what about that Anders Brevik huh' as some kinda counter to the question of wider support and extreme views and thinking just mentioning him cancels out any argument. You could count on one hand the number of people who supported him and you could in no way get away with being asked to condemn Brevik and offering up the same 'what did they expect line', this being the key difference.
We have a huge problem in Europe with the numbers of people from nearly every EU member country who are attracted by ISIS and travelling their to support or even fight for them. If I had said years ago British Muslims would leave in the numbers they have to support a group who make the Waffen-SS look tame, you would have rubbished it as alarmist racist rubbish. Well it's here now.

[Mr_B]

La Liga said:

Who cares how wide the base is when the base isn't going to be engaging in terrorism? It's perfectly relevant to 'wheel out' when people are taking the absolute statistical extreme of a group and extrapolating it over the whole group.

It's the base that builds the people at the top. I'd suggest there is a clear link between those who shuffle their feet and say people shouldn't have drawn cartoons and people who go even further and travel to Syria and go on to be directly involved. It's also these people who will be involved in extremist Mosques and things like the Trojan horse schools problem and generally resist any integration and further enhancing the problem in the UK.
Brevik had no base support. The scary thing is the numbers of British people who will associate with ISIS and other Islamic terrorists simply because they share a religion, to the smaller fish who teach division in British schools, but they are all linked.