Can we talk about Germany for a bit?

[gruffalo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

Germany, a country that has opened it's doors to many leaving the Middle East, may Merkel regret what she has done or is this sort of collateral damage acceptable?

So glad that we have limited the number we accept and the 20,000 to my mind needs to be reviewed/delayed till the full impact on other countries can be assessed.

I am shocked that this could happen in Germany, a country I visit regularly and have aways considered as very safe.

[gruffalo]

Derek Smith said:

jjlynn27 said:

I'm shocked that you are still allowed to post on this forum after your rather idiotic outburst over Christmas. I'm even more shocked that you are allowed unsupervised access to the internet.

What was it about christmas that he didn't like?

Not sure I follow?

What did I say that offended?

[gruffalo]

Bluebarge said:

Nice. So you take one rather confused report of incidents in Cologne, where no-one has yet been arrested, let alone been brought before the Courts and state that it is the work of Syrian refugees.

I'm not surprised that you visit Germany so often - those Pegida rallies won't organise themselves.

BTW, rates of sexual abuse of women in Germany are above the EU average, so the other assumption in your post also lacks any supporting evidence.

I was unaware of the rape rate in Germany being above average so guilty as charged, I have always felt safe there but I am not female and no I am not some right wing nutter, I work for a German company hence my regular travel.

Who mentioned Syria, I did mention the Middle East as a whole region, I may be wrong on this and debate is a way of learning so I am open minded to other opinions I thought that was the point of a forum, put a point and allow others to rebut that opinion.

The BBC report did say:

City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.

So what is your view or do you just want to get personal with zero information about me.

Edited by gruffalo on Tuesday 5th January 13:48

[gruffalo]

pbg2770 said:

Bluebarge said:

gruffalo said:

So glad that we have limited the number we accept and the 20,000 to my mind needs to be reviewed/delayed till the full impact on other countries can be assessed.

I am shocked that this could happen in Germany, a country I visit regularly and have aways considered as very safe.

Nice. So you take one rather confused report of incidents in Cologne, where no-one has yet been arrested, let alone been brought before the Courts and state that it is the work of Syrian refugees.

I'm not surprised that you visit Germany so often - those Pegida rallies won't organise themselves.

BTW, rates of sexual abuse of women in Germany are above the EU average, so the other assumption in your post also lacks any supporting evidence.

I think it's worthy of comment / worthy of a thread. It's clear something happened ( http://tinyurl.com/pvparxf ) and if nothing could be posted until convictions were completed, ph would be very quiet indeed :-). I wouldn't have speculated about nationality though, granted.

The report I quoted said:

City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.

I repeated this using slightly different terminology for the same thing.

[gruffalo]

Bluebarge said:

gruffalo said:

Who mentioned Syria

You did. You mentioned the "20,000" who are the 20k Syrian refugees being taken by the UK and stated that you were glad that we had not taken more. The implication of your post was very clear as much as you may try to obfuscate now.

The article talks about 80 offences, most of which were muggings. Some witnesses spoke of the culprits being of Middle eastern or North African appearance, but that covers an awful lot of European citizens, including Turkish Gastarbeiter, and eyewitness reports are very often confused.

Personally, I don't like to sling mud at whole communities on the basis of some confused reports. I much prefer to wait until the judicial process has been given a chance before reaching for the tar and feathers. Besides, if you were to ask policemen from any of the cheapo Med resorts whether this type of behaviour was common for any particular national group, I expect young pissed-up Brits would figure pretty high on their list.

I did say that and yes, I am glad we have not taken more than the initial 5,000 until we see what effects they have on the areas they settle in and how well they integrate and are accepted.

[gruffalo]

jjlynn27 said:

eharding said:

jjlynn27 said:

gruffalo said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046

Germany, a country that has opened it's doors to many leaving the Middle East, may Merkel regret what she has done or is this sort of collateral damage acceptable?

So glad that we have limited the number we accept and the 20,000 to my mind needs to be reviewed/delayed till the full impact on other countries can be assessed.

I am shocked that this could happen in Germany, a country I visit regularly and have aways considered as very safe.

I'm shocked that you are still allowed to post on this forum after your rather idiotic outburst during Christmas. I'm even more shocked that you are allowed unsupervised access to the internet.

eta; better?

Edited by jjlynn27 on Tuesday 5th January 13:30

Umm - are you sure you're not confusing gruffalo with Groucho - who did indeed go super-nova on Christmas Day, after more than one Croft Original too many?

Indeed, sincere apologies to gruffalo. Mea culpa.

Thank you, apology accepted, easy mistake to make:-)

I was racking what I have left of a brain wondering what I had done.

[gruffalo]

Bluebarge said:

don'tbesilly said:

http://www.infowars.com/norway-immigrants-brutally...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/175434/1-4-swedi...

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/10/mainstream-media...

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/23/sweden-opened-it...

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/06/europes...

http://pamelageller.com/2015/08/italy-muslim-immig...

Well you've really nailed your colours to the mast haven't you?

I know you're not interested in balance but, if you wanted to convince anyone who wasn't already pre-disposed to wearing knee-length boots and armbands, you would need to post links to identical crimes carried out by non-immigrants, and demonstrate that there has been a statistical increase in similar crimes as a result of recent immigration, which goes beyond the obvious causal link that more people = more crime.

I won't hold my breath while you do it.

I haven't looked at them all but I did click on the second one down and it mentions that the population increased from 9m to 9.5m while reported rapes increase 500% over the same period so some some mention of population increase.

I have not looked at all the links but in the case I have mentioned there must be another factor other than just population increase to get a 5 fold increase in reported rape cases.

[gruffalo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In no particular order I started this thread to highlight the issue in Germany and also to state that I was glad we are restricting immigration as much as we are as well as to question if Merkel would consider this sort of behaviour and acceptable by product of what she had done with the unrestricted immigration.

I did not mention the Berlin wall coming down or say that Germany would not be able to cope with reunification and to be frank it is not a real comparison is it the reunification of a land split for 50 years by politics compared to the integration of circa 1m foreign nationals with a very different cultural background and large language barriers.

I am in favour of helping people but not if it causes a detrimental effect on the helpers, I find, rather than making bold and sweeping changes like Germany has done it is better to test the effects first in a controlled way and then if all is well move forward a bit further hence why I am glad we are taking the approach our government has taken.

[gruffalo]

We don't know they were Muslim, remember that some of the most persecuted in Arab and North African country's is the Christian minority.

The report only states they were of Arab or North African appearance.

[gruffalo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35261359

The Cologne police chief resigns over the new years eve attacks on women.

Merkel to follow suit?

[gruffalo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

And no woman should be harmed by this social experiment.

[gruffalo]

The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African and Arab, an official report says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

[gruffalo]

Zod said:

Yes, a savage, and one who knew it was wrong and that it was a crime in his home country too. Nothing to do with different cultures. The man is just a child-raping beast.

Makes you wonder if he fled Iraq to flee justice and posed as a refugee.

[gruffalo]

How about

1: Making targeted public information films about how to behave in a civilised manner?
2: Funding more/better camps in region?
3: Chartering planes to return those that are unable to behave in a civilised manner?
4: Fund specialist teams to go to camps and filter the truly needy so they can get relocated?

You know just useful stuff.

[gruffalo]

s3fella said:

Or how about telling them to clear off and stop blighting the homelands of the very people that keep Clooney and his ilk in their designer suits, mansions and Nesspresso!? I mean how many "refugees" are paying £60 quid to take the missus out to VUE to see the latest new release..? How about educating them that it is not OK to storm borders and burn your papers so as to cheat your way inot a society that others have worked hard to develop?

I'd have more time for celebs and politicians that actually paid more attention to the migrant crisis from another perspective than that of the migrants! How about normal people on lesbos, and in Greece, turkey, from near the migrant camps in various countries, Germany, Sweden, France, how about the residents of Calais...you know the ones who are actually meant to be their, that pay their way, rent taxes etc...? Where are the do gooders helping them..?
Its all well and good seeing it from the perspective of what are sometimes some desperate people, but how about the ones who have to put up with significant changes in their lives and livelihoods and a result? My point is there is more than one side to all this.

See items 2,3 and 4 all of these aimed at preventing all of what you have said and keeping most in region, the truly needy should be allowed the opportunity to be offered a new home.

e.g. How about those young kids who have lost their own family, loads of people over here looking to adopt kids who could offer them a solid family and bring them up in the ways of the west, possibly there by preventing a future nutter bent on jihad?

[gruffalo]

Gandahar said:

Let me guess, all these "Lets talk about xxx country" is just another way of saying red indians/gollywogs, or todays equivalent, are getting into Britain via Germany and Sweden and France nilly willy. And being an ex Major in the Armed forces and Sunday Telegraph reader to boot, you don't jolly well like it.

If so continue. No one will spot your xenophobic Daily Mail prompted overly worried posts on the matter I'm sure

Ahem

As the OP I guess that is aimed at me.

And your answer is no not in the least, I started this thread to talk about the seeming huge clash of culture highlighted by the report of mass sexual violence against women in part of Germany allegedly carried out but recent arrivals encouraged to enter Germany by the countries elected leader.

[gruffalo]

When did the Shengen agreement come into force.

As long as I can remember travelling through Europe has been completely trouble free.

[gruffalo]

Good post.

[gruffalo]

PRTVR said:

Car bomb goes off in Berlin.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ber...

Probably someone who could not live with polluting the environment ( the car was a vw)

This over terrorist is what it looks like to me, not a huge device designed to kill as many as possible but more of a Northern Ireland type of execution device.

[gruffalo]

News report I have just seen is suggesting that the chap who attacked the people on the train with an axe may well not have come from Afghanistan at all and it looks like he came from Pakistan.