So who wants to remain in the EU?

[anonymous-user]

Some interesting data.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...

article said:

University educated people are most likely to want to stay in the EU
When it comes to social class and education, those with university education are most likely to be pro-EU - with 62 per cent of graduates wishing to remain in Europe.

Those belonging to the AB social class - usually in higher managerial, administrative and professional occupations - support the EU by 56 to 44 per cent.
Meanwhile, people in the lower DE and C2 social grades have net dissatisfaction with the institution. Ukip has attempted to re-brand itself as a party for the working class, and so it will try and boost turnout in this eurosceptic group.

And from yougov.

[anonymous-user]

Looks like.

Pro EU tend to be = clever people, good jobs, well educated, left wing, young.
Against EU tend to be = Less educated, not so good jobs, right wing, old.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's not really what's being said.

article said:

Greens love the EU while Ukip loathe it
The poll also examined the voting intentions of voters for all the major parties.
Conservative and Labour voters were the most divided on the issue - with Tories erring towards leaving the EU and the majority of Labour voters wishing to remain.
Unsurprisingly, among Ukip voters, the EU is incredibly unpopular, with 72 per cent wishing to leave. This comes as Nigel Farage wrote in The Telegraph: "leaving the EU is more important than party politics".
More surprisingly, however, 28 per cent of Ukip voters still back the EU - despite Ukip's deputy chairman Suzanna Evans saying the figure is "zero".
Green party voters were most in favour of continued EU membership.

[anonymous-user]

FredClogs said:

bucksmanuk said:

28% of UKIP voters want to remain in the EU? - seems high to me....

UKIP voters.

Nuff said.

The remain lead on the right side of the table is a minus figure. That means they don't want to remain.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think it means 66% want to leave.

[anonymous-user]

rs1952 said:

I am often intrigued by the virulent anti-EU stance taken by so many posters on PH, which does not seem to be to be anywhere near representative of the country as a whole, or at least the parts of it that I inhabit and talk to people in

Where I work, most people I speak to seem to be pro EU membership but against the eurocrats themselves. Oddly though, they tend to be Conservative voters and university educated. I expect that's because it is a pan european organisation.

[anonymous-user]

el stovey said:

...clever people, good jobs, well educated, left wing, young...

They are not at home at 6pm, probably don't have land lines and certainly don't spend 10 minutes giving personal socio-economic information to cold callers. The sample size might be relatively large but the sample isn't random it's massively biased so I doub't your conclusions (granted made partly in jest) hold any water.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd February 15:04

[anonymous-user]

I was surprised that generally older people want to leave the EU. I thought usually they are the group that vote for no change and stability.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

There's something I didn't know. I thought we were still allowed to trade with the rest of the world despite being in the EU.

AFAIK you are only allowed to trade with non-EU countries on the terms agreed by the EU. You can't go and agree free trade between the UK and USA, you have to impose EU tariffs. So yes you can trade with the ROW but not on your own terms.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd February 15:37

[anonymous-user]

wolves_wanderer said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Efbe said:

fatjon said:

You seem to be confusing Lefties, Guardian readers and Independent readers with well educated and clever people.

I would have put the majority of the posters on this site as politically centre, mid to high income. Most are skilled/professional articulate people but there seems to be a massive majority in favour of out or leaning that way. I suspect these polls predicting an in vote will turn out to be nearly as accurate as the last GE polls. It really does not seem to be party political or educational/income based at all.

hahahaha, serious, politically centre?


PH is about as right wing a forum of this size there is.

Not really, I would say FJ`s view was about on the nail, perhaps it just `seems' like it to any lefty`s that come here.

If you start miles to the right then even normal people look like lefties...

There is no way PH represents anything approaching "political centre"

Any poll or politics thread will tell you that.

[anonymous-user]

ATG said:

When one considers how much more successful Germany is than us at exporting goods across the world, it is pretty obvious that our trade problems have nothing to do with our EU membership.

Assuming you can still trade freely with the EU post Brexit (a pre-requisite I'd have thought) what harm can trading trading more freely with the rest of the world do? Why the UK doesn't manufacuter and export to German levels is a whole other set of issues. Hiding behind protectionist trade barriers does no one any favours.

[anonymous-user]

wolves_wanderer said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Efbe said:

fatjon said:

You seem to be confusing Lefties, Guardian readers and Independent readers with well educated and clever people.

I would have put the majority of the posters on this site as politically centre, mid to high income. Most are skilled/professional articulate people but there seems to be a massive majority in favour of out or leaning that way. I suspect these polls predicting an in vote will turn out to be nearly as accurate as the last GE polls. It really does not seem to be party political or educational/income based at all.

hahahaha, serious, politically centre?


PH is about as right wing a forum of this size there is.

Not really, I would say FJ`s view was about on the nail, perhaps it just `seems' like it to any lefty`s that come here.

If you start miles to the right then even normal people look like lefties...

Paging don4l ... Don4l to the courtesy phone please...

[anonymous-user]

Beati Dogu said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I only have the massive schlong, which way should I vote?

In.

In and out, surely?


(Apols if someone has already done that gag. Thread TL/DR)

[anonymous-user]

Mr_B said:

I quite like the notion now being talked of that the EU is a lovely old thing to stop wars and generally peace, love and understanding , right up until the point where we leave and they seem like a bad guy in a Eastenders episode where he says ' I love ya babe, but if you ever leave me I'm gonna give you a black eye and fk you up' , with what then must be the UK playing battered wife unsure if she should get the hell out but scared of leaving.

Exactly this. If their answer to you leaving is to fvck you over... it's past time to leave. It's a very sad state of affairs when Great Britain can be bullied by a pissy little bunch of unelected ex-communist bureaucrats.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Kahneman called it confirmation bias. If you are genuinely disinterested in the EU, your opinion formed only by objective evidence and rational thought then I'm going to hazard a guess you are alone. I'm also intrigued by where one would find this objective evidence that you speak of, the only evidence I see from either side is propaganda.

[anonymous-user]

Fantic SuperT said:

... Despite his dreadful windbag behaviour he seemed more in contact with reality than the professional politicians and civil servants / commissioners / EC Director Generals etc.

...

In which universe is Nigel Farage not a professional politician?

[anonymous-user]

That Farage is a charlatan is painfully obvious to anyone who can walk and breathe at the same time, but Farage's ability to take people in should not be underestimated. It is amazing that there are still people who think that Farage is some sort of plain dealing outsider to the system, Johnny Bloke in Pub, when he is in reality a system insider and a most artful politician.

There are strong arguments in favour of leaving the EU, as well as strong arguments in favour of staying in, but Farage adds little of substance to the debate. He is, however, an adept user of the well established "Big Lie" technique. Oops, Godwin!

[anonymous-user]

Fantic SuperT said:

Breadvan72 said:

Fantic SuperT said:

... Despite his dreadful windbag behaviour he seemed more in contact with reality than the professional politicians and civil servants / commissioners / EC Director Generals etc.
...

In which universe is Nigel Farage not a professional politician?

In the one when he had a proper job before becoming a politician, and the one in which he says what he pretty much feels like without the apparent help of spin doctors or advisers. The closest I can recall to his candor was Alan Clarke who was born into money and seemed to be a politician for a laugh.

Farage has been a full time politician for decades now. He is not the only career politician to have held a "proper" job (if being a stock broker counts as a proper job: I am never sure which jobs count and which jobs don't). If you think that Farage has no use for spin doctors and so forth, you are being, I politely suggest, touchingly naive.

[anonymous-user]

I don't have much time for injury lawyers and so on, but do they not pay any tax? If not, what's their tax dodge wheeze? Are they better at tax scams than the City dudes? Is dealing shares in the City more real world than, say, advising people some of whom who might be real refugees, or, for example, advising wealthy overseas business types on entry to the UK? (Not all immigration advisers work out of shop fronts in Hackney - some have plush offices in the West End and have PAs who can speak Russian and/or Chinese).

[anonymous-user]

Fantic SuperT said:

Breadvan72 said:

I don't have much time for injury lawyers and so on, but do they not pay any tax? If not, what's their tax dodge wheeze? Are they better at tax scams than the City dudes? Is dealing shares in the City more real world than, say, advising people some of whom who might be real refugees, or, for example, advising wealthy overseas business types on entry to the UK? (Not all immigration advisers work out of shop fronts in Hackney - some have plush offices in the West End and have PAs who can speak Russian and/or Chinese).

I was offering my opinion of 'proper', not referring to the HMRC guidelines. As it happens, in my opinion the service provided by derivatives traders for example does facilitate many long term plans like planting farm crops at a guaranteed sale price and ordering a ship to be built and paid for in a fluctuating foreign currency five years later etc. Tying our immigration service in knots doesn't, but then again I'm only expressing a personal opinion because I very occasionally visit these blogging sites. It doesn't really matter to anyone but it sometimes feels nice to take a break for a few minutes.

You may perhaps be treating futures trading as being synonymous with derivatives. There are, however, various esoteric derivatives that have little to do with ship building or crop planning, and the gambling games that are played with some of them can play havoc with the real world of growing things and making things. There is, however, an argument that all forms of economic activity, even some crime, are in some way beneficial to the overall good (although it would be pleasant if some of the big operators paid a tad more tax to ease the load carried by the rest of us). Churn, churn, churn, and all that.

As for posting vs working, my posting and working habits are utterly irrelevant to anyone but me, but, as you ask, I manage to do both because I work to my own erratic pattern, subject to various external pressures that I can't control. Oddly, if I go quiet on here that is usually because I have no work to do, but if I post on here a lot that usually means that I'm busy at work. I suspect that I am not alone in this.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 4th February 18:07