Pigs at the trough 2016

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It's that time of year when the CEO and Directors of some of the FTSE Companies decide to engraciate themselves with huge amounts of money the call remnumerations. The CEO of the Company that makes dettol and other products of course has decided to double his remnumerations to twenty million pounds. Well fair play he has overseen a 6% growth in the business last year. The now sees the average pay package 10000 times that of the average pay median. Twenty years back it was around 250 x.
Shareholders are once again voicing anger at what they see as excessive rewards.

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ZOLLAR said:

Well my FTSE 100 CEO steps down next Thursday so is giving us all a £1000 (before tax unfortunately)
He's a pretty nice guy too.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-34...

Ultimately if a CEO delivers on promises, increases growth and the shareholders are happy who cares?

The ongoing problem that is definitely a problem gathering momentom is that shareholders do care and are voicing their anger at the AGM of some of these companies. Not all CEO are money grasping greedy people, but many are, and with one or two noteable exceptions they have not risked a single penny of their own money in setting up and growing a business.

I distinctly recall some of the posters in here praising the Tesco Board, how good they are and could I do better, well yes I could and did when running my own business. Add to that the chorus of praise for the likes of Fred the shred and Bob Diamond, again by people on these forms who clearly are devoid of facts and reality at times, simply supporting the ideology.

It's a pity that decent CEO are on the same playing ground as some of these other, in some cases, worthless parasites.

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sidicks said:

crankedup said:

It's that time of year when the CEO and Directors of some of the FTSE Companies decide to engraciate themselves with huge amounts of money the call remnumerations. The CEO of the Company that makes dettol and other products of course has decided to double his remnumerations to twenty million pounds. Well fair play he has overseen a 6% growth in the business last year. The now sees the average pay package 10000 times that of the average pay median. Twenty years back it was around 250 x.
Shareholders are once again voicing anger at what they see as excessive rewards.

Are you a shareholder?

Only through a trust fund.

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BlackLabel said:

I see that Sir Martin Sorrell was paid over £70m for 2015 (one of the biggest pay cheques in British corporate history) which some people didn't like - not sure why given he's built his company up for over 30 years. If shareholders don't object then is it really anyone else's business?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/29/s...

It's not his company. It belongs to the shareholders.

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eatcustard said:

Private business pay lots of money to top dog and the loopy left cry about it

Companies owned by shareholders. Private businesses do and pay whatever they like, as is their obvious right

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0000 said:

crankedup said:

BlackLabel said:

I see that Sir Martin Sorrell was paid over £70m for 2015 (one of the biggest pay cheques in British corporate history) which some people didn't like - not sure why given he's built his company up for over 30 years. If shareholders don't object then is it really anyone else's business?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/29/s...

It's not his company. It belongs to the shareholders.

And if the shareholders don't object then is it really anyone else's business?

Tell me you haven't noticed or heard about the 2016 shareholders meetings and the anger displayed and voted against the board pay recommendations. Many people are shareholders of course, even if only through their pensions funds.

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sidicks said:

Fittster said:

If bosses are plundering their firms there's less for shareholders, many of which are pension funds.

So the best people to decide whether the remuneration is appropriate are the owners of the business I.e. the pension funds and their appointed representatives (asset managers)?

As Shareholders they have a vote and use it accordingly...

You hit upon one of the principle reasons of the problem, those businesses running pension funds do not give a flying fig about the pay board recommendations. Therefore simply nod and grunt.

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MarshPhantom said:

ellroy said:

Lefty poster in envy post shocker.

Reported recently that excess pay for bosses has a negative effect on staff motivation and performance.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/12056337/Pay-gap-...

It's not just the employees of Companies that get demotivated, this pig troughing every year continues to undermine Social wellbeing.
During my working life the average CEO pay was 247x the median, Mr dettol said pay is now 1000x median.

EFA average CEO pay is 1000x median approximately, not my key board slip of 10000x. Surprised scrutiny didn't pick me up on that!

Edited by crankedup on Friday 6th May 10:16

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

this pig troughing every year continues to undermine Social wellbeing.

Please define what this actually means in terms that can actually be measured.

Then please provide evidence to support your claims.

Difficult to define but if we look at Greece during the last three years Social unrest is very evident. The lack of jobs, basic medications, small businesses bust all leading up to Social unrest. Now I am not suggesting that CEO excessive pay is going to cause a mirror image of the Magnitude we see in Greece, of course not. But comparatively minor social unrest has already been seen which is directly related to the growing wealth gap in the UK.
We know that dissatisfaction is rumbling within workers who have had their wages frozen or reduced over the past eight years, it is not too difficult to understand their frustration seeing the boss decide he/she is worth massive pay increases year on year.
We can say that the boss is responsible for the whole company and their jobs, but the CEO is adequately supported by the Board of Directors sharing that weight. The last point I would like to make is this, if the company goes bust the workers lose their jobs the CEO will be given a golden handshake and walk into the company or retire sitting upon a nice heap of tenners.

Whenever this topic of CEO pay comes along, I usually post it every year, certain posters will swack about the politics of envy, none of my business, sell your shares if you disagree and such like. Personally I don't believe it is these actions that resolve the growing issue.of Social unrest, Fundemental changes are required that will bring about the control of excessive board room pay, such as those changes Vince Cable was discussing when in Government.

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NRS said:

powerstroke said:

crankedup said:

MarshPhantom said:

ellroy said:

Lefty poster in envy post shocker.

Reported recently that excess pay for bosses has a negative effect on staff motivation and performance.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/12056337/Pay-gap-...

It's not just the employees of Companies that get demotivated, this pig troughing every year continues to undermine Social wellbeing.
During my working life the average CEO pay was 247x the median, Mr dettol said pay is now 10000x median.

I'm proudly right wing I do however think everybody should benefit from hard work in building up a successful business
sadly while there is a vast amount of cheap labour available the pay gap will widen ....

I would have to agree. I'm very very happy for the best to be paid a decent wage for the effort they put in, but at some point it just gets silly relative to "normal" workers. I work for a big company that has done pretty well in it's industry but because of the system in Norway it pays a lot less for high up positions than elsewhere. It doesn't mean the company does very badly - it's at least equal to competitors overall if not better, and yet surely if CEO pay is linked to performance it should be doing terrible? A lot comes down to "normal" workers doing a good job, and a CEO can influence that but the "normal" workers should also be a part of the reward when a company does well, not just one or two people at the top.

For those saying it's envy then no, I earn a good wage but am happy to live in Norway where it means shop workers/ cleaners etc get a better wage. I pay a bit more as a result, but that is ok to have a system where you look after people but also can afford it (not stupid socialism that is built on massive debt).

Very much agree, I do not begrudge a top salary paid to good people, top salary can be measured against the median average. 250x median can be argued over, 300x perhaps but when workers pay is held back and/or reduced to witness top pay 1000x median raises serious political and Social question imo.

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iphonedyou said:

This thread, again, from CrankedUp, again?

Colour me shocked.

It matters.

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FredClogs said:

oyster said:

But have the sales of Dettol really gone through the roof?

They've gone down the toilet.

But the CEO is feeling flush.

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Underneath I try to retain some degree of normality and humour. Vince has been busy writing the almost obligatory book, 'after the storm'. Also doing the usual media rounds as displaced MP's of all colours seem to latch onto, being the only source available t get his message out. Still as outspoken as ever, good thing, being angry at the TATA steel and BHS crisis, he can only offer advise now but still carries some influence apparently.
Sir Vince or Dr Cable seems to be doing OK.

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richie99 said:

crankedup said:

Difficult to define but if we look at Greece during the last three years Social unrest is very evident. The lack of jobs, basic medications, small businesses bust all leading up to Social unrest. Now I am not suggesting that CEO excessive pay is going to cause a mirror image of the Magnitude we see in Greece, of course not. But comparatively minor social unrest has already been seen which is directly related to the growing wealth gap in the UK.
We know that dissatisfaction is rumbling within workers who have had their wages frozen or reduced over the past eight years, it is not too difficult to understand their frustration seeing the boss decide he/she is worth massive pay increases year on year.
We can say that the boss is responsible for the whole company and their jobs, but the CEO is adequately supported by the Board of Directors sharing that weight. The last point I would like to make is this, if the company goes bust the workers lose their jobs the CEO will be given a golden handshake and walk into the company or retire sitting upon a nice heap of tenners.

Whenever this topic of CEO pay comes along, I usually post it every year, certain posters will swack about the politics of envy, none of my business, sell your shares if you disagree and such like. Personally I don't believe it is these actions that resolve the growing issue.of Social unrest, Fundemental changes are required that will bring about the control of excessive board room pay, such as those changes Vince Cable was discussing when in Government.

Where is the evidence that social unrest in the UK has anything to do with your growing wealth gap? Greece is a red herring with its own problems.

Red Herring!!! You must be joking, it's own problems, yes of course. I was using Greece as an example of Social unrest, it's an ugly thing. But are you suggesting the Greek problem is not related to financial problems?
If you are dismissing my example at least have the courtesy to spell out your take on the Greek problem.

Your asking me to show evidence of UK unrest being related to the growing wealth gap. Do you live in a cave in the outer Mongolian landscape? You must have seen/read/witnessed those protesters in and around London, Liverpool, Birmingham and other cities brandishing placards and banners condemning the growing wealth gap! Argue about it but don't deny knowledge, please.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Underneath I try to retain some degree of normality and humour.

It's not visible on the surface.

crankedup said:

But are you suggesting the Greek problem is not related to financial problems?

It's related to financial issues such as paying themselves silly salaries/benefits for bugger all work. It's not really related to salaries of FTSE CEOs. Please don't conflate the two.

Its all about money and a growing wealth gap, CEO and their ilk are part of the problem. Greek people have not paid themselves too much, their Government borrowed too much and the small businesses and ordinary people are the ones paying the price.
Salaries of FTSE CEO is, by normal intelligent persons perspective beyond excessive. This gives rise to wealth gap social problems, note wealth gap, this is the same wealth gap existing in Greece, albeit Greece is in the centre of the problem. It's not how the wealth gap is derived but the consequence of a wealth gap that is excessive and growing. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, demonstrations have already been publically voiced and demonstrated against CEO pay awards with more companies being targeted by dissatisfied shareholders railing against the greed and excess of tier company CEO and Boards. We have already seen ordinary people demonstrating against the inequality between the haves and have nots. The U.K. Is now one of the worst offenders regarding inequality apparently.
My example of how social inequality driven by unfairness in wealth distribution pointing to Greece is certainly warrented. The only difference is circumstances in how the inequality was born, but has the same result regarding social unrest.
Please do make an effort to broaden your mind, the CEO pay problem is only part of a much wider issue resulting in the risk of social unrest, disharmony.

Edited by crankedup on Sunday 8th May 00:13

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richie99 said:

crankedup said:

Difficult to define but if we look at Greece during the last three years Social unrest is very evident. The lack of jobs, basic medications, small businesses bust all leading up to Social unrest. Now I am not suggesting that CEO excessive pay is going to cause a mirror image of the Magnitude we see in Greece, of course not. But comparatively minor social unrest has already been seen which is directly related to the growing wealth gap in the UK.
We know that dissatisfaction is rumbling within workers who have had their wages frozen or reduced over the past eight years, it is not too difficult to understand their frustration seeing the boss decide he/she is worth massive pay increases year on year.
We can say that the boss is responsible for the whole company and their jobs, but the CEO is adequately supported by the Board of Directors sharing that weight. The last point I would like to make is this, if the company goes bust the workers lose their jobs the CEO will be given a golden handshake and walk into the company or retire sitting upon a nice heap of tenners.

Whenever this topic of CEO pay comes along, I usually post it every year, certain posters will swack about the politics of envy, none of my business, sell your shares if you disagree and such like. Personally I don't believe it is these actions that resolve the growing issue.of Social unrest, Fundemental changes are required that will bring about the control of excessive board room pay, such as those changes Vince Cable was discussing when in Government.

Where is the evidence that social unrest in the UK has anything to do with your growing wealth gap? Greece is a red herring with its own problems.

Well their we have just another thoughtful and unintelligent debating point, thanks for your insight.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Well their we have just another thoughtful and unintelligent debating point.

Apart from the bad spelling, this makes no sense and so tends to undermine whatever you were trying to say.

You're jealous that someone is making a lot more money than you & you're trying to justify your envy by wrapping it up in moral socialism.

Are you a psychologist?
How do you know about my income and savings?
As a long standing Lib Dem at least your correct about my concerns regarding the well being of Social harmony, although you refer to that as socialism it seems.
Yes bad spelling has become part of my posts, but your annoyed so need to retort and as such it's again dedicated to the poster and not the subject.

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Sump said:

I'm getting really sick of poor people just sticking their noses into literally everything. Honestly, why can't they just do their work and keep quiet. They insist of having an opinion on absolutely everything regardless of whether they have any knowledge or experience on the issue in hand. They act like they constantly see the picture in awe of being "ahead of the curve." Oh do fk off.

Yes it's so awful isn't it, it must really distress you every day to see democracy at work. Never me you can always shuffle off to Moscow for some relief from it all.

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Rovinghawk said:

crankedup said:

Are you a psychologist?

No, but I don't need to be one to recognise jealousy as blatant as yours.

crankedup said:

How do you know about my income and savings?

I believe it to be less than the CEOs otherwise you wouldn't be whingeing about them.

crankedup said:

As a long standing Lib Dem at least your correct about my concerns regarding the well being of Social harmony, although you refer to that as socialism it seems.

Note the word 'social' in both halves of that sentence. You seem more focussed on some alleged standard of 'fairness' than realpolitik.

crankedup said:

Yes bad spelling has become part of my posts, but your annoyed so need to retort and as such it's again dedicated to the poster and not the subject.

I said I'd leave the spelling to one side- my point was that your statement made zero sense. Read it again & see what I mean.

Fair enough you are entitled to express yourself freely. Shame you feel the need to focus upon the poster and not the subject though.
As a counter point to your jealously accusation, do you include all shareholders and people who object to excessive board room pay? People like Simon Walker for example.

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Rovinghawk must be having a day at the seaside or he isn't aware Simon Walker is the boss of Institute of Directors. Like me and thousands of shareholders he. Is a very fierce critic of excessive bosses pay. Presume that rovinghawk will diss him as jealous because his income isn't excessive.
Apparently Mr Walker again warned last week that unless excessive pay was reined in public pressure will force the Government into the introduction of legislation which will rein in the payments.
Sooner the better.