Is Boris sh*tting himself?

[anonymous-user]

Interesting thread on Mumsnet about Boris.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonabl...

[anonymous-user]

To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen
(227 Posts)



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hownottofkup Sat 25-Jun-16 15:04:27

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.





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OhtoblazeswithElvira Sat 25-Jun-16 15:08:22

Agree. Yesterday his face was saying "st,what do we do now?".

God help us!





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Notgivingin789 Sat 25-Jun-16 15:09:50

Yep! I agree.





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hownottofkup Sat 25-Jun-16 15:09:56

The more I think about it the more it all seems a bit odd
(I'm not being anti-Leave voters at all, this is just in regards to Boris)





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Thymeout Sat 25-Jun-16 15:15:41

I agree, too. At the beginning of the campaign, it was 60-40 in favour of Remain. I think he decided to support Leave to establish himself with the right wing of the Tory Party in his leadership bid, increase his profile - and ps off Cameron. Only a fortnight before, he was writing a column in favour of the EU.

He thought Remain would win and then, with the help of the rightwing Eurosceptics, he'd get the leadership. After all, Cameron had already said he wasn't doing another term. He was going anyway.

It would almost be funny if the whole thing weren't so serious.





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Owllady Sat 25-Jun-16 15:16:58

He wants to be prime minister





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Just5minswithDacre Sat 25-Jun-16 15:18:07

That's a novel take on the situation, at least.





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JudyCoolibar Sat 25-Jun-16 15:19:49

Yup. The relative silence from him and Gove is incredibly telling. They're particularly scared because, once it had happened, they wanted Cameron to stay to do all the difficult stuff and take the flak.





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howtorebuild Sat 25-Jun-16 15:21:14

I agree.





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minipie Sat 25-Jun-16 15:21:39

I agree OP.

He wants to be PM - but I bet he doesn't much like the idea of being PM during years of legal red tape, a shrinking economy and 48% of the nation (or more if you include the Leave Regretters) against the leaving process.





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SchnitzelVonKrumm Sat 25-Jun-16 15:23:23

Of course he didn't. He made a selfish and irresponsible decision that has bitten him - and all of us - in the arse. Dave certainly wasn't in on it though.

His shock is Boris realising that he cannot broker an exit that satisfies the White working class and will go down in history as Nigel Farage's useful idiot.





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RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie Sat 25-Jun-16 15:23:53

I agree too. I don't think he has an ounce of integrity in his blustering body, or a single genuinely-held conviction other than, 'Look out for Boris' and it was all a cynical game. His face after the results really did seem to be saying, 'What the fk have I done now?'





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BlueFolly Sat 25-Jun-16 15:26:28

I agree. He looked sick as a parrot yesterday.





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AyeAmarok Sat 25-Jun-16 15:26:42

I also thought this yesterday. I think he wanted to run the campaign and be all flamboyant (flamBoris?) and when the result was close but Remain won, he'd have the support of both sides of the Tory party, then he'd step into the PM role.

Then boom.

I also think the same about Gove. Yesterday morning he looked like he was on a comedown from a night on MDMA and had just realised he had smashed up his house while tripping.

The two of them just looked a bit like "Holy fk, st just got real. What the hell do we do now".





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hownottofkup Sat 25-Jun-16 15:26:49

'support' re Cameron maybe was a bit strong.





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Onenerfwarfrombreakdown Sat 25-Jun-16 15:26:54

His reaction was very muted wasn't it! It definitely was a power play to the right of the party in a bid to shore up the support for his desire to be PM. Not sure this was the way he wanted it tho!!





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ElspethFlashman Sat 25-Jun-16 15:27:18

I'm not sure. He's been a Euro basher all his working life. That doesn't seem false.

But he certainly didn't look much like a man whos won.

He does want to be PM. But I think he's a bit daunted at how angry and divided everyone is and how the job is an absolute poisoned chalice. There is literally nothing that he'll be able to negotiate that will be as good as the UK has had. The public mood could turn vicious against the new PM in a year.

He'll have to be a master at PR and spin as the public NEED to hear and believe good news. So every moderate gain will have to be spun as a Great British Triumph.

Some people seem to be literally expecting their areas to improve very quickly. I think Boris is stting himself slightly as to how to cope with those unrealistic expectations.

Perhaps his Euroscepticism was sincere but he just didn't think that it'd pass? And he'd look like a Champion of the Working Class and be nicely lined up as the great Tory hope once DC eventually left No 10?





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allegretto Sat 25-Jun-16 15:27:45

that's a novel take not really - there's been quite a lot of discussion of this as he has been pro Europe in the past. Tbh I am surprised that people are surprised!





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A11TheSmallTh1ngs Sat 25-Jun-16 15:33:11

But I think he's a bit daunted at how angry and divided everyone is and how the job is an absolute poisoned chalice.

THIS

How can a leader win? People are expecting miracles. No immigration (LOL!) but somehow all the same deals. And also a replacement for all the lost EU grants (i.e. Wales).





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LazyJournalistsQuoteMN Sat 25-Jun-16 15:33:46

I don't think Boris and Farage expected David C to resign. They were hoping he would do the nitty gritty, once people voted leave. I think they expected the EU to beg them to stay. Now that the UK have said Leave, EU want them out ASAP, and Boris knows there isn't enough money in the pot to go it alone. Does anyone else think there will be another referendum?





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TwoLittleBlooms Sat 25-Jun-16 15:33:54

I said exactly that after his and Giselles (sp) speeches yesterday whilst me and DH were talking about it. DH disagrees he thinks the mood was somber due to not wanting to appear to gloat whilst the news sunk in for people. I still think he doesn't want brexit to happen and hope that it won't.





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allegretto Sat 25-Jun-16 15:34:10

From 2012:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/nov/25/boris-joh...





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JustDanceAddict Sat 25-Jun-16 15:34:54

He just wants to be PM.





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MrsTerryPratchett Sat 25-Jun-16 15:35:25

My kid wants a snake for her birthday. She thinks it would be cool and she thinks she'd love it. If I actually gave her a snake for her birthday... That's the look on Boris' face.





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SapphireStrange Sat 25-Jun-16 15:35:46

You're all absolutely right. He is in some war room somewhere as we speak, head in hands, stting himself.

He didn't expect a Leave vote. He knows that leaving is bad for the country. He didn't expect Cameron to flounce off and leave him (potentially) with the clean-up. H

He has fked up big time. He only wants to be Tory leader, and ultimately PM, and he thought this would get him there. He, possibly as much as Cameron for promising this fking referendum in the first place, has gambled with the UK for selfish reasons of personal power and gain.

He knows it. Boris Johnson is many things but he is not stupid.

God help us.

[anonymous-user]

Evolved said:

Linked mumsnet threads, whatever next..

Brave new world and all that..

Got to embrace change.

[anonymous-user]

vonuber said:

s1962a said:

Interesting.

The Leave campaign went quiet about Norway because it has free movement of labour as part of it's negotiation with the EU. That'll go down well here!

It makes sense though. We remain part of the free trade area, keep passporting rights etc.
We will have to comply with EU regs to sell stuff to them anyway.

It's already being hinted at - so basically nothing will change. How droll.

Even if that were the case, and it could well be, at least we'd know nothing would change in the future too. Unless the UK wanted it to.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th June 20:08

[anonymous-user]

s3fella, may I suggest you wind your neck in.

My opinion is as valid as yours, what you think of my opinion is quite frankly your problem and not my concern.

[anonymous-user]

mondeoman said:

///ajd's first line says "that post above is worth pasting"

Yes,
And he pasted it.
Quite clear for anyone who wants to understand.

[anonymous-user]

But they can't just call an election, CMD changed things..

[anonymous-user]

e8_pack said:

We're all grown ups here, the boss has spoken (the people) now unite and move forward as team, pull together and get the job done.

Yep.
Instead of people saying "ok that's the decision let's make the most of it" we get part political games that seriously run the risk of throwing the country into turmoil.

Shameful.

[anonymous-user]

jamiem555 said:

vonuber said:

Bugger me, he's practically nostradamus isn't he. Got it spot on.

Not really. Anyone with half a brain could work that one out. Unfortunately 18 million people have just proved otherwise.

To be fair it's only been 1 working day. We can hardly rush to judgement yet.
Anyway it cant't be that bad - Boris was having fun with the Spencers today. Definitely nothing to worry about.

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

That post above is worth pasting

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Well written speculation is still just speculation. As I wrote in the other thread where this was posted prior to it being closed, it makes lots of assumptions. It also mentions one day of market movements as evidence which shows poor judgement.

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

To be fair it's only been 1 working day. We can hardly rush to judgement yet.
Anyway it cant't be that bad - Boris was having fun with the Spencers today. Definitely nothing to worry about.

Incredible really. The world leaders are running around like headless chickens trying to sort out the mess. I'm sure they have other issues the would rather concentrate on. Meanwhile the clueless architect of the disaster is poncing about on a cricket field

[anonymous-user]

babatunde said:

don4l said:

Kermit power said:

We take something like 8% of Germany's exports, and they take something like 10% of ours, so already there, we've got negotiating parity at best, but what you're failing to take into account is the whole reason why so many people voted to leave the EU in the first place.

It's a bloody great big collective!

We might be roughly at parity with some individual countries in the EU when it comes to negotiating, but we don't negotiate with individual countries, we negotiate with the whole group. They take 45% of our exports, whereas we take less than 10% of ours.

How on earth do you think that puts us in the stronger negotiating position????

That's before you consider the possibility of the EU negotiators deliberately taking a bit of a hit on their own side to give us a really crap deal, just to encourage other member states' populations to think twice about having their own leave campaigns.

I've no idea where your figures come from.

We have a huge trade imbalance with Germany. We take £20Bn of their cars, or a fifth of total car production. We export £10Bn to them.

BMW shares are down 12% since Friday morning. Volkswagen are down 11%.

The CAC40 in Paris is also down 11%. The Spanist stock market is down 13%.

The FTSE 100 is down 5%.

The markets are saying very clearly that the consequences are much more severe for the rest of Europe.

It is fantastic that Cameron isn't going too quickly, because negotiations cannot start until his successor is in place. Meanwhile, Junker et al have time to reflect on their position.

I was reading the Spanish newspaper earlier. They are desperate for a compromise.

There is a very real fear in Europe at the moment. We should use this to our advantage.

For the moment, my strategy would be to suggest that no negotiations were necessary. WTO option would suit us very nicely indeed.

Another 10% wiped off their stock markets would bring them to their senses.

So, we do not need to even consider the Norway option.

We need to play hardball. We have a £65Bn upper hand.

Upper hand, isn't the word you are looking for, or do you think that "Europe" is the reason that we are buying more stuff than we are selling and of course you are aware that the Pound has lost 10% of its value.

You're right of course, but surely the sensible thing for all countries would be to reach an acceptable compromise which ensured the status quo, give or take, for trading?

I appreciate that they don't want to encourage more members to leave, by giving in to us, but are those members going to be persuaded to stay willingly if they see the UK persecuted, and trade damaged in all areas.

Surely the politicians, from whichever country or institution, aren't that stupid? Or are they?

[anonymous-user]

We all know that Cameron resigning effectively finished off Boris' hopes.
He is in a lose lose situation. Haha

[anonymous-user]

EnglishTony said:

Is Boris sh*tting himself?

With laughter perhaps.

I'd say crying. He was finished the moment Caneron resigned rather than invoke the Brexit. If he's not PM he'll be a laughing stock. If he is & invokes article 50 he'll be at the helm of the biggest disaster.

[anonymous-user]

don4l said:

Europe's markets are down by about 10%, while the UK's markets are down about 3%.

If you want to know the effect on UK companies, you should look at the FTSE250, not the FTSE100. The FTSE250 is down considerably more than 3%.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

The FTSE250, CAC 40 and DAX are all at about the levels they were in late 2014. The FTSE had outperformed the others in the mean time, particularly as mainland Europe was struggling to recover.

Maybe so, but don4l's point is that there has been little movement in the value of UK companies since the referendum result, which he is trying to show by reference to a wrong indicator (though he will probably revert with a denial that that is what his point was, that he didn't use those precise words, he didn't use the wrong indicator, and something else containing the words "strawman" and/or "lie").

[anonymous-user]

There are 2314 companies listed on the London Stock Exchange.

There are 3,467,866 listed as active on the UK companies house register.

There is far too much weight put on the stock market, these companies are the large vested interests that didn't want us to leave the EU.

Most wealth in this country is created by and most people are employed by the companies not listed on the London Stock Exchange.

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

I entirely understand why many people voted leave, but unfortunately the leave campaign were winging it, with no ideas and no plan. I don't think they seriously expected to win and it is now apparent that they are desperately finding a way to deal with the fact that they had no plan.

Yes, it's a bit like voting for the Liberals in the 1970s - then waking up to the horror of having this chap for PM:

[anonymous-user]

Sam All said:

Zod said:

Crafty_ said:

BBC news ticker said Liam Fox is going to stand, not official though.

Would he move Adam Werrity into Number 10?

Pathetic.

It's a legitimate question as we will be paying for it, again.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

Johnson's time in London might well come back to haunt him. There are some 'odd' deals that have not been fully explained. I've yet to find him making any decision that wasn't based on what is best for him. Regardless of approval ratings, he'd be a disaster for the tory party. May for all her manifest faults - and there are quite a few - she will give a statesman like impression.

I admit to be utterly perplexed at the widely held view that Boris would be a good PM.

He's a journalist, a broadcaster, and former London Mayor. Being London Mayor seems to involve principally looking after transport in London (especially bus and cycle lanes) and PR. There's a webpage somewhere with Boris's 100 best [sic] achievements as Mayor. It's not impressive, unless he was in the running to be SoS for Urban Transport.