Positivity - The Future

[TeamD]

Yes, I know, we have a huge raft of Brexit threads BUT...

It's monday morning, we've spent the weekend arguing with all and sundry and it's now time to get on with life and move on from the bickering, insults and recriminations.

So, with that in mind, let's put our communal heads together and start discussing what we'd like to see come out of the decision made on Thursday.

My starter for ten is the following:

All EU nationals currently working in the UK and contributing to the economy to be given permanent leave to remain. This would go some way towards countering the accusations of racism and xenophobia and would squarely put the ball in the EUs court as to how they should move forwards in a constructive manner. Tantrums will not wash, we have to all behave like adults, no matter our thoughts on the matter.

Edited by TeamD on Monday 27th June 08:55

[TeamD]

It also occurs to me that by stealing the march on the continuing residence of EU nationals already here then we should be able to make any moves by the rEU to punish UK residents working there precisely the kind of negative, childish and spiteful actions of an organisation that is undemocratic and has refused to listen to its members and thus bears some responsibility of the juncture that we now find ourselves at.

[TeamD]

b2hbm said:

Like it, although I don't ever recall the Leave campaigners saying that immigrants already here would be on the first boat out. But it would certainly reinforce the feelings for many in that position.

Exactly, it has been spun as being a racist agenda and this needs to be nipped in the bud. The outcome of the vote was NOT a vote for discrimination and xenophobia, rather a legitimate concern that fell upon deaf ears.

I would also like to stress that IMHO, this is not a matter of turning out backs upon Europe, but taking back the power to drive forward cooperation on our own terms, for the best interests of the UK as a whole. It is a complete no-brainer that if the answer to any attempt at change or renegotiation is always, "Non!"

ETA: A friend from my local pub who has been married to his wife for over a decade is continually confounded by the Civil service in attempting to secure her leave to remain, simply because she is of Brazilian origin. This is plainly unfair.

Edited by TeamD on Monday 27th June 09:13

[TeamD]

Another bugbear is the continued use of the term "jingoism" by those unhappy with the situation. Since the definition of that word is as follows, "the extreme belief that your own country is always best, often shown in enthusiastic support for a war against another country" is inappropriate at best and downright deceitful at worst.

We haven't declared war on anyone, all we have done is express our dissatisfaction with a situation which has been foisted upon us and taken the only reasonable steps available to us to effect change that is in our best interests.

[TeamD]

don4l said:

I must say that I find it reassuring to be called "thick" by anyone who could write the above.

Can we leave the arguing for the plethora of other threads please Don, I'm trying to move on here and whilst you may not agree with the contribution made by PositronicRay at least he has acknowledged that we are where we are and further strife will only damage our country. Not that there have not been strong words traded from either side of the debate but we must now look to the future.

Cheers,
Steve

[TeamD]

As an aside, today, I joined the Conservative party, it is the first time in my life that I have ever felt the urge to join a political party.

[TeamD]

SeeFive said:

TeamD said:

As an aside, today, I joined the Conservative party, it is the first time in my life that I have ever felt the urge to join a political party.

Interesting. Will you be throwing your hat in for the top job?

I suspect my public speaking skills would be my downfall

[TeamD]

Mrr T said:

TeamD said:

All EU nationals currently working in the UK and contributing to the economy to be given permanent leave to remain. This would go some way towards countering the accusations of racism and xenophobia and would squarely put the ball in the EUs court as to how they should move forwards in a constructive manner. Tantrums will not wash, we have to all behave like adults, no matter our thoughts on the matter.

A small technical problem with your plan is that EU immigrants cannot apply for indefinite leave to remain. Any other plans from team Leave?

Says who? This whole thing is about our right to make our own rules, if there is a will it will be done.

[TeamD]

Mrr T said:

Please just check the web site before posting.

https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/eu-eea...

As an EU citizen you CANNOT apply for indefinite leave to remain.

You can apply for a residency certificate or after 5 years residence (3 if married to a UK citizen) citizenship.

TBH it sounds like you want it to be a problem, so when presented with a suggestion that we change immigration law to safeguard EU citizens position in this country and allay the fears at this time you wish to naysay it? Other than getting your own way and undoing the referendum what positive and sensible things would you do to ensure that these people are not disadvantaged?

[TeamD]

I really don't get all the hysteria about Boris, the PM is not the expert in government, it's up to the PM to put together the best cabinet he/she can and then LISTEN to their advice.

[TeamD]

I should have known that I was wasting my time, so many of you are completely unable to debate without resorting to insults.

[TeamD]

Countdown said:

The Germans are not going to stop us buying german cars. However what they might do is put tariffs on UK goods so that it's cheaper for EU customers to buy EU goods instead. We retaliate by putting tariffs on their goods. The problem is that we can't buy german cars from anywhere else.

So we lose exports and pay more for our imports - excellent result!

And what would our response be?

[TeamD]

One thing that seems to have cropped up in various threads is this belief by some that in some way the legitimacy and mandate for the executing of article 50 rests with CMD and CMD alone and that any subsequent PM replacing him would not or could not execute that action. I find this point of view somewhat strange in the the very Treaty (Lisbon) that enshrines Article 50 was signed on our behalf by Gordon Brown, a man who never had the peoples mandate as a Prime Minister and, indeed, never won a general election standing as such. Odd don't you think that some folk have such short memories and selective application of the rule of fair play and common sense?

[TeamD]

Mark Benson said:

Some positivity:

So far Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, Mexico and Ghana have already stated they want to begin trade talks with us.

Either that or play us at football.....

Nice folk the Ghanaians

[TeamD]

Derek Smith said:

I've been looking at those CEOs who have bothered to put a comment online or in newspapers. It is as if they all have the same book: Comforting Words and Phrases for a Crisis.

'Challenge' is popular. 'Overcome' is fine, but 'moving forward', 'taking opportunities', 'far worse has happened' is probably better. 'Much to do' is a sort of negative phrase, so context is important.

I've only seen the 2008 crisis mentioned once before and, like Dicksons' CEO, the chap didn't mention that then the rest of the world were in the same boat. This time it is only us sinking.

It is guff to try and placate shareholders. It is all bull. The CEO, like many of his colleagues, is bricking it.

You just can't bear it can you? "Oh woe is me, What? the sky isn't falling in, I may have been wrong?"