Insurance quotes

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Thorodin said:

1. Where did he pass the driving test, and has he always held a 'clean' licence?
2. Some companies just don't like certain cars or occupations (according to their corporate experience).
3. Some companies 'specialise' in certain risks because of their particular set-up and offer non-standard
premium rates.

If there is a difference in premium rates, that reflects that particular company's experience of a particular combination of risks taken together with their repair/recovery back-up situation, and there will be no definitive answer. Although there will always be a section of the market that is, let's say 'sharp', they are all in competition with each other and tend to respond to market conditions. If they are profitable and booming they will see no pressing need to be the cheapest and will seek to refine their risk exposure to a more affluent customer profile.

Every detail between the two quotes is the same, apart from the question, born in the UK or not. Always had a clean licence.

So where he passed the test is irrelevant, as there is no question on that topic. (He passed in the UK ) He was only born in NL because his parents worked there at the time and they were back in the UK within 1 year.
Certain cars and occupations do not count here either. it is the same person, car and occupation on both quotes.
it is also the same company quoting different quotes here.
The question is why is the same company quoting far more expensively for a more experienced driver with more NCB but was born outside the UK, than another driver with considerably less experience and less NCB,(so more risk (same name. same profession, same car, same address, same everything. except born in the UK with less NCB and less years driving).

Looks to me like there is a profile here for some companies for people born outside the UK.

Edited by recycled on Saturday 30th July 16:11

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snorky782 said:

What does the last sentence mean? There's a profile for everything.

You've also said you changed length licence held and NCD as well as where born

It clearly means what i typed in it. There is a profile for people not born in the UK (not for everything as you wrote).
Without checking the circumstances of their birth.

I cannot see any difference between someone born in the UK and someone born out of the UK who came back to the UK within a year.
unfortunately in a form as soon as you fill born outside the UK, it conjures all sorts of images, negative or otherwise as this quote clearly shows.

Edited by recycled on Saturday 30th July 18:12

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craigjm said:

When insurers have been challenged on this in the past......

ELEPHANT said:

Elephant explains that it bases its calculations on statistics of past claims from customers. "Our experience shows that policyholders who have not always been a UK resident have a considerably worse claims experience, hence a higher premium for such customers," says a spokeswoman. "We do therefore use UK residency as a pricing factor. We don't ask any questions about nationality or race, rather whether or not someone has lived in the UK for the whole of their life, and if not for how long.

Correct .That should be the case, but not when the form clearly states in the next question

How long have you been resident in the UK and the answer is a date that clearly shows it was less than one year after birth.

Meanwhile Quote A who was born in the UK and has only been longer in life that Quote B for about 9 months gets a £200 discount even though they have been driving for 5 years and have 5 years NCB.

Confusing or what?

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craigjm said:

The Elephant quote states quite clearly its not race or nationality based

They have evidence that people born outside the UK are a higher risk and therefore charge more

It's a computer at the end of the day. Whether you have lived in the country since you were 1 or since you were 30 is probably of no consequence to the algorithm the computer has been given. The key thing is that the decision is based on evidence.

Exactly my point. Whatever computer algorithm they use is totally wrong. I know who is more of a risk and who is more likely to cause a crash.
probably why the insurance premiums are totally miscalculated anyway, if you can deem a holder with way more NCB and way more experience driving is more of a risk because he happens to be born abroad.

Do most people agree that this is fair? and if you are running your own risk analysis in your insurance company , which candidate is of a greater risk to you?

Edited by recycled on Saturday 30th July 18:06

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craigjm said:

Your NCB over and above 5 years doesn't generally make any difference anyway and you still go down to three years once you have had an incident and it is probably a similar thing with years driving experience once you exceed 5 years.

I suggest that he looks at the immigration rules that were in place when he was born because if both his parents are British and he was naturalised immediately it may allow him to actually answer no to that question. However, it would be worth raising it as an issue to the insurance ombudsman to see if the view has changed since that Elephant quote in 2010 and some of the newspapers would love a good story like that too.

Bottom line is, if it feels discriminatory then challenge it as that's the only way things will change.

I guess i probably will advise him to challenge it. it was not even the best quote he got so he probably would just ignore it.
As for the immigration policy, he did not need to naturalise at all. Anyway that is what i am being told. Both parents are Welsh and English and he has 2 birth certificates. One is a register of birth by the UK embassy and one is an NL birth certificate. This was before 1983 when the rules changed
Used the register of birth to get his passport. Any way just thought i could give him some advise as we are all a close knit family.

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All that jazz said:

Get your daughter to hook up with a native British chap then it won't be a problem.

haha.

I did advise her to do that, but which children listen to their parents these days?

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desolate said:

Or get him to ring the company that comes top on his quote search. A human should be able to sort it out quite quickly.
Depends on which company it is as some don't allow their humans to think.

Another way would be to lie and tick that he was born in the UK. No way would the policy be cancelled in these circumstances.

Looks like you were reading our minds. In the time this was going on, he rang and also sent an email on their contact me link.
Guess what?, he got a call back and they offered an even cheaper price. Both cheaper than the on line quotes regardless of where he was born.

Unfortunately, it still was not the best overall quote he got, bearing in mind he wants all sorts of cover including European and what's not, so he would still need to move on and find something else.
Just goes to show that some databases and computer programmes still cannot replace good old fashioned common sense in some cases, like this one.

Just wondering if other forum members have ever come across this kind of issues, not just in insurance but in any other on-line form filling or other things that require place of birth.
I never subscribe to anyone telling untruths on any forms by the way, as it always has a way of coming back to haunt you. Insurance companies always like to wriggle out of things on a technicality.

if he was born in the Netherlands then so be it. Just have to live with the consequences.

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snorky782 said:

Do you really know, or do you just want the answer to be the your kid is a great risk and others are worse risks?

Insurers base everything on experience and projections. It fits you into a demographic, not as an individual. If you want individual underwriting then take your business to Lloyds of London. I don't think you'll like the price though.

Many people complain about many things with insurance. It always seems to be the thing that they feel is unfair that penalises them or their family.

Do you work for LLoyds of London? Maybe you could help

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craigjm said:

The reason I asked about naturalisation was because if it was before 1983 , both his parents are British citizens and they were in the Netherlands for a short term job posting / holiday rather than taking permanent residency then under the immigration and nationality rules that were in force at the time he can legitimately claim that he was born in the UK if they returned to the UK within 270 days of the birth. Even if they did not but returned within the first year, if the child is not entitled to, or has not taken Dutch citizenship then they can legitimately claim that they were UK born. Your statement that he did not have to naturalise would lead me to believe that they were back in the UK within this time and he may just be complicating his life by stating he was born outside of the UK.

I did not know that at all. So how does that work? He fills in a passport form saying he was born in the UK?
While his supporting documents show him as been born in the Netherlands?
may need to speak to his mum about that.

Edited by recycled on Saturday 30th July 19:12

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Thorodin said:

You mention several times 'the best quote' - do you mean the lowest? They are not necessarily the same thing. Also with some replies you intimate what might be considered additional underwriting factors. I'm sure you are genuine, but are you aware how this comes across?

Can you elaborate please? The best quote he was trying to get for the conditions he wanted on his policy.
It is not necessarily the cheapest or lowest yes, but what exactly are you suggesting and what do you mean by genuine?
What do you not understand here?

There are quotes that have breakdown cover, Eu cover for only 3 days, Eu cover for 30 days, some come with breakdown only when you are 100 metres from your house, some come with breakdown at your house, some have windscreen excess of 0 and some have of 20, 40 or 60 pounds.

Which part is not clear to you and what do you mean by genuine? Are you genuine yourself and how does this come across?
i would like to know please.
Why not go to the sites that start with con and and put in the details yourself and see whether there is a difference or not?

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snorky782 said:

I'd like to see the policy that provides a zero windscreen excess.

I meant to say,0 for fixing a chip/ crack, while some charge for just that.(or have you not heard about those as well?) i am pretty sure you know what i was getting at, but then if not, then you are very welcome.
Of course you have to pay an excess for changing a screen.

Edited by recycled on Saturday 30th July 20:30

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Thorodin said:

My original reply (the first reply on your thread) was the fullest and most informative answer to your question I could make (after 25 years of industry experience). I regret not being able to make further comment.

That is the best you can do after 25 years experience? Experience in what exactly? i guess you did not understand the question at all, that is why you are asking " Where did he pass his test?"
And you are asking me if i am genuine?

Edited by recycled on Sunday 31st July 23:53

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Thorodin said:

Something I recognised earlier on and thought it best to withdraw. Still, I hope he finds his answer.

Would be best for you to withdraw. Clearly recognised earlier on, you did not understand the situation and you were not prepared to just let things be.I have already found several reasonable answers.

Edited by recycled on Monday 1st August 18:00

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snorky782 said:

Blimey, you're quite shouty.

Nothing shouty about that. if you come to a forum, expecting help ,you do not need someone who does not have any intention of offering an answer, to start questioning your legitimacy without any reasonable grounds.
unfortunately at PH these days, you have more wannabe detectives and conspiracy theorists hanging around trying to find their feet.

Edited by recycled on Monday 1st August 18:06

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Thorodin said:

Oi, chum, don't blame PH. Have a go at me if you want to, I couldn't give a monkey's. I'm confident my first answer was in the best interest of your opener and I don't have to justify myself to you. My reply is still on here for anyone to see and you are welcome to use it for any purpose you want, but don't blame PH - if PH wasn't as good as it is you would probably have not tried to intimate there was a 'movement' around nationality. Take your temper somewhere where it's welcome.

Edited by Thorodin on Monday 1st August 19:51

Oh Dear. You need to take your answers to the sewers where it may be appreciated. Your first answer was as useless as a chocolate fireguard. Asking where he passed his test clearly tells me you do not understand English very much or the part where i said, "everything is exactly the same". Then you have to go and insinuate a case of not being genuine

I do not need to justify myself to your either or your wannabe detective ideas. If you think that people who ask about insurance quotes have a hidden agenda, then maybe you have been spending too much time with Alex Jones .Just stick to your withdrawal symptoms, because clearly your goal here is not to help but to hinder. Carry on your nationalist movement somewhere else because it clearly is only you and your snorky sidekick that seem to have a problem there out of every other poster.
Fact is some of the quotes were higher when place of birth was a factor regardless , so go and take your conspiracy rubbish elsewhere

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sidicks said:

I'm sure the experts will be happy to respond to your question, given how friendly and grateful you are...

Never going to be grateful to conspiracy theorists and false accusers. They are a total waste of time.
Of course will always have time for those who try to help of course.
Clearly you are not an expert

Edited by recycled on Monday 1st August 21:11

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sidicks said:

You've already had the relevant answers, including mine, but it seemed like you didn't like the answer:

1) At the simplest level, premiums are linked to statistics (evidence). Clearly, on average, those born overseas have higher accident rates (and / or more expensive accidents) - that's not so hard to believe.

2) On line comparison engines offer a very simplified rating approach which may not deal with individual risks accurately

3) If you are a special type of risk, you may obtain a better quote by dealing with a broker who can investigate your requirements in more detail

4) There is no conspiracy against those born overseas

Wrong again. I liked every answer except one, which i clearly replied to.
I Never said there was a conspiracy theory.
I only stated a fact that approx 10% on line prices on a certain website is higher.
he has taken the advice and gone direct to several companies.

In fact you are not entirely right according to your statistics, because some of the prices did not make any difference regardless of being born overseas

The one we do not understand is the chap who thinks i am not genuine without stating why. Maybe you would like to ask him why.
The issue was already over until he started to question a simple honest request for help.

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Thorodin said:

As a last and final response I will refer you to my post which said, " I am sure you are genuine, but are you aware how you come across?". Meant in a conciliatory way, but forget it, I'm now out.

Another clear response. No I am not aware how i come across. I do not really care whether you are out or in. its a public forum.

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sidicks said:

No, I'm still right, because each insurer has access to their own statistics which can differ!

In many cases the statistics did not seem to make any difference

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sidicks said:

Pissing off experts that might be able to help you isn't the best way of obtaining the useful information that you seek...

Not so sure about this "expert"