A34 Tragic crash

[Welshbeef]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/a34-cra...


Such a horrible horrible accident.




Sadly I've heard of so many accidents on that specific stretch of the A34 with many lives lost - I pass it often and see police signs asking for witnesses of an accident which resulted in a loss of life.

When will the police and Highway authority put a much lower speed limit on this road - it is without question a accident black spot. Heck make it 40mph if need be.


I think the issue is so many side junctions with zero slip road so people simply pull out into oncoming traffic, also no hard shoulder so nowhere to swerve incase of an accident. Plus when I drive it more often than not you have idiots driving so close to your bumper when it's clear your following the flow Amor traffic and cannot go faster - nor pull in to let them past.

I hope the individual who has been arrested for dangerous driving resulting in the loss of life of 3 children and their mother while the husband and other son are in the car behind and see the horror unfold. - really gets a very long sentence and is banned from driving for life.

[Welshbeef]

sidicks said:

The authorities appear to be focussing on dangerous driving, with no suggestion that the cause was 'speed' related, hence no justification to change the speed limit...

I know that road very well and trust me a lower speed limit would make a difference.

I know this is PH and I for one like open roads etc but no it is a terrible accident hotspot so so so many. Lower the speed limit.

[Welshbeef]

turbobloke said:

A very tragic crash indeed.

Regarding the speed element, if drivers are ignoring a current higher limit (if), then expecting an even lower limit to be complied with is expecting a lot, probably too much.

As always we'll have to wait a while for the investigation outcomes to be published.

They had a trial speed limit there before about a mile up from J13 and stopped just before the southbound entry from East Illsley.

No average speed cameras.

I put my cruise control on every single day I went through it. Only a tiny % that I witnessed followed the speed limit. HGVs flying past or up your Arse in the slow lane, then people literally flying past 90+ in the fast lane.

The other day a 15 reg silver E350 CDI was driving like a nutter on it followed by a clapped out e36 328i with what sounded like a straight through exhaust. People joining the carriageway then simply swerve out into the fast lane irrespective of the fact they don't understand they need to give way plus the lethal issue of closing speed.


Police PLEASE drive up and down this road far more often - you've done it a lot now on the M3 Basingstoke to the M27 junction as that simply was if your doing 90mph any other car past you like your standing still. Those police cars and sleeping police camera vans on the handful of bridges has slowed people up a lot.

If a 50mph limit meant no more crashes there I'd take it - the hours/probably days I've been stationary on that road after yet another accident.



I'd also say the M4 J8/9 has a few similar stupid points where cars join the road at 1st gear speed and as its busy they wait so so long then have had enough and pull out...

[Welshbeef]

saaby93 said:

If it's a road layout issue, a speed limit isnt going to solve it . you'll still have accidents and people shrugging their shoulders saying we put in a speed limit what else can we do?

It's the what else that they need to do first
Fix the layout

That would take years of planning agreement budget sign off etc.

Instead a lowering to say 60mph the entire length and then drop to say 40mph in the known bad black spots.
That will cost nothing and be imp relented with signs up by mid next week.

[Welshbeef]

mondeoman said:

Its in the inside lane, full of trucks going uphill - they aint gonna be speeding, at all.

But they pull out and try to overtake each other over many miles - they certainly do go head to head up the hills.


If trucks were banned from the L2 the entire length that could help.

[Welshbeef]

fblm said:

Perhaps we should wait to see if he's actually guilty?

You don't just get arrested charged and bailed for dangerous driving without there being quite a bit more than a hunch.

[Welshbeef]

All that jazz said:

It would not help at all and in fact would make the situation worse. You have no idea what you're talking about, as usual. Have you ever driven a truck? Have you ever driven one along that stretch? I wager the answer to that is no. I used to travel that stretch every day for years pulling containers out of Southampton for the north and if you have a heavy load you need to keep the momentum rolling on those steep hills as much as possible otherwise you end up nearly down in your low box crawling up at 15mph causing carnage behind you as everyone fights to get round you. If you're running empty or light then the vast majority of modern trucks will go up those hills at 50-56 which keeps the traffic flowing so long as other drivers yield where they can - which was a huge part of the problem before the lane 2 7.5t ban.

Limiting trucks to lane 1 will achieve nothing other than unnecessary increased frustration which leads to even more dangerous driving. Also it appears to have escaped your attention that the crash happened completely in lane 1, ie. the same lane that you want all truckers banished to, which, due to the significant speed differences between loaded and empty trucks would result in even more tailgating and crushed cars that get in the way because they refuse to overtake. Looking at the pics in the article that appears to be what's happened as there are no slip roads on that section of the hill so it's quite likely that the rear truck was following another large sized vehicle up the hill which pulled out to overtake the Corsa crawling behind the slow loaded truck in front, leaving the rear truck nowhere to go hence the impact. I witnessed loads of near misses like that.

Petition for the speed limit to be reduced even further if you want but all you'll achieve is even more frustration from both truckers and car drivers as the heavy trucks will no longer be able to get a run up and so the road will be reduced to 5-10mph til they get over the brow. If you think that it won't affect the speed of lane 2 when lane 1 traffic is going that slow I can tell you for sure that there'd be little speed differential because that's just how people react when going past slow moving traffic.

The problem could be mostly solved by adding a 3rd crawler lane for each of 2 big hills between Chilton and either side of East Ilsley which would allow the heavy trucks to keep their momentum going as much as possible but also allow the lighter trucks and heavier vans to maintain their progress without impeding on the faster flow of the cars.

If you don't have any experience of driving a max weight truck then it's easy to sit acting all "armchair expert" spouting nonsense about reducing the speed limit and banishing all heavies to lane 1 would insta-fix the issue when it quite simply won't.

I se it often miles of slightly faster on one truck overtaking finally he pulls in only for the truck he has just past to swerve out and try to overtake the truck which has just past him. That is an utter farce.


Much higher taxes on truck for 7am-7pm travel on the roads forcing them to go at night when the roads are much quieter adding valuable capacity to the roads. We cannot stop the cars as most are commuters so have no option.

[Welshbeef]

davepoth said:

A 50 limit will make it worse, not better, if elephant racing is what's caused it. The current maximum speed of any LGV is 56mph, governed by law. The ACPO prosecution threshold is 50mph + 10% + 2mph, which is 57mph.

Every truck driver in the land knows that if a DC speed limit is 50 they can put their foot to the floor and let the governor do its job, safe in the knowledge that they'll never get a ticket.

So the trucks will still do what they do now, but the cars will have to slow down. I would not want to spend a minute overtaking an LGV, and certainly not 20 seconds in the blind spot next to the driver's cab.

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/changes-and-answers/new-higher-speed-limits-for-lorries-in-england-and-wales

I'd say the HGV speed limit should be reduced to what it was 50mpg on dual and 40mph on single a roads.

Why they increased it is madness.

[Welshbeef]

skyrover said:

Welshbeef said:

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/changes-and-answers...

I'd say the HGV speed limit should be reduced to what it was 50mpg on dual and 40mph on single a roads.

Why they increased it is madness.

Just no..

If anything differential speed limits should be scrapped.

Really?

So you want to change the global set up of lower speed limits for articulated vehicles which have drastically longer stopping distances.

No thank you.

[Welshbeef]

Nickyboy said:

Welshbeef said:

Really?

So you want to change the global set up of lower speed limits for articulated vehicles which have drastically longer stopping distances.

No thank you.

Have you been to America? If you haven't then i suggest you do, every vehicle has the same speed limit bar local restrictions. Trucks do 70mph, cars do 70mph, RV's do 70mph. Everything flows smoothly, nobody is stuck behind trucks doing 20mph less then everyone else. Granted some of their interstates going on for miles are a bit different but the same limits apply in busier areas. While the actual limit might decrease/increase it's the same for any type of vehicle

Most roads in the US are 55mph.

Regardless in the US roads are very wide multi lane big hard shoulder and wide lanes oh and roads are generally straight.
Kind of total opposite to the UK.

[Welshbeef]

cossy400 said:

saaby93 said:

cossy400 said:

I drove this road today, and had to bully my way out twice as Id had my indicator for what seemed like a life time. but everyone wants to be in front of the truck.

And on the way home the prick in the Merc that decided to race down the slip road to get in front of me, be fine for him if there was enough room, but he ran out of that so had to chuck anchor or hit me.

Its fair to say on a lot of roads "all" drivers are there own worse enemy.

Dreadful post unless the irony parrot was circling

Not really, when I see it every day, but everyone moans about the lorry driver?


Simple question for then intelligent that think we don't need lorries on the road.

Thousands upon thousands of thing are delivered everyday, please name me the "one" thing that's gets delivered across the world everyday "BUT" its the only thing that's never travelled by truck.

You see everything else has spent some time on a truck and that's everything bar this one thing.

I too frequently see this muppet style driving.

Personally depending on the situation I do one of two things floor it and get miles ahead of the twonk breaking the speed limit by some way and for some duration to do so OR (and this has certainly been mind set for a long time now) slow right down and let them clear let them be idiots and hopefully they don't cause an accident.

As much as I'd personally not like to see more BIB on the roads as is certainly be nipped for speeding if it meant less idiots driving on the road then I'm all for it.
Maybe once the idiots are off the roads speed limits COULD increase

[Welshbeef]

Having used the A34 often since this accident there have been two or three serious accidents in the same place.


Also on the Northbound route- if you past east Illsley junction Southbound then go up the following hill the Police have been parked often on the other side of the road, a small lay by.
Also I've finally started to see police driving with the flow of traffic to slow people up.

However Friday 4.30pm I was in the slow lane in no hurry 60mph at best the car in front of me probably 20+ car lengths right up the chuff of the car in front of that then without indication swerved out into the fast lane just as an F30 black M3 came steaming past he barely managed to stop in time. Anyway we carried on and I picked. Up my speed passing the slower cars in the slow lane - only to find the car which pulled out further down in the slow lane with said M3 so so tight to his bumper flashing him and from a glance I could see all sorts of walker hand gestures from BMW driver to the other car.
I appreciate the M3 driver was fking pissed off at the idiot pulling out nearly causing a big accident - but BMW driver was going way way over 70mph, but then being a prick like I describe above is not the way to react.

[Welshbeef]

The safest cars are

Auto matic
Auto lights
Auto wipers
Head up display for nav.
Voice control
Speed limiter

Reason.

Hands are on the steering wheel all the time/vastly longer and eyes not looking round the dash.

[Welshbeef]

eldar said:

Welshbeef said:

The safest cars are

Auto matic
Auto lights
Auto wipers
Head up display for nav.
Voice control
Speed limiter

Reason.

Hands are on the steering wheel all the time/vastly longer and eyes not looking round the dash.

The safest cars are those driven by a competent driver.

But even then you have a range of skilled competency.

Likewise you don't have brand new tyres or brakes or shocks so again a range from brand new/perfect to just legal.


What I'm saying is that using technology to force improvements. The amount of times I see idiots driving with lights off when it's dark auto lights solves that problem.

The braking system Volvo has which applies the brake hard if it detects the driver not braking yet approaching a car / object in front too quickly is a work of genius. In theory those cars will never have another front end accident.

[Welshbeef]

surveyor said:

alock said:

surveyor said:

Nothing to see, normal approach, 3rd gear get ready...

But if you rotate the Google camera 30° then you can see a lorry. Why couldn't you have been looking out of your side window at this point?

Because I'm looking at the bend in the slip road?

When I use that join section - there is a black barn or such like on the left hand side maybe 200m back I look right then and can see if it's heavy or empty but once I clear the shrubs I'm in 2nd gear crawling looking right pretty much all the time.

The joining the A34 from Newbury A4 I think going North is a nightmare it's a large curve into the exit and you cannot see a thing until you are on the then slip road of 20yards if your lucky and simply hope Chapple who is flooring it round the S is glancing forward than right as you'd have your back doors smashed in and never walk again.

[Welshbeef]

surveyor said:

First time I've used that junction I think. I expected a little more of a slip road and had to adjust quickly to be honest.

Yep IMHO this is the norm for A34 slip roads or actually better than some.

Lots of accidents here as southbound vehicles hit a crest facing south east so morning sun glare plus blind slip road drivers joining nowhere to go bump.

[Welshbeef]

That 9 mile A34 Newbury bypass

25,000 trees cut down
1,000 arrests
An area of outstanding natural historical beauty destroyed and well within 20 years the Newbury town is worse than it was with traffic.
If you approach Newbury from the South East there is no way to join the A34 a fundamental flaw

[Welshbeef]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

Welshbeef said:

That 9 mile A34 Newbury bypass

25,000 trees cut down
1,000 arrests
An area of outstanding natural historical beauty destroyed and well within 20 years the Newbury town is worse than it was with traffic.
If you approach Newbury from the South East there is no way to join the A34 a fundamental flaw

i can't imagine what Newbury would be like without the bypass- unlivable i suspect.
yes 25,000 trees got cut down, but its castly improved the lives of hundred of thousands of people, trees can re-grow!

you can join from the south east, either at Tothill or the wash common exits.

Problem is Newbury now is totally gridlocked.

I never saw that area pre the A34 bypasss. It does look pretty but connecting M3/4/40/M1 is needed

[Welshbeef]

What a tragic unnecessary and totally avoidable loss of life.

I remember the news reports at the time they had just finished a family holiday (camping IIRC) - and had decided to leave earlier than usual to try to miss the traffic. I'd struggle to get over that decision if I was the survivor - a toilet break or one last trip to the beach whatever would have meant they would all have it home in total safety.

I know someone who was driving in slow M way traffic - - anyway it came to a halt and he could see the car behind approaching clearly not breaking and used his car as the brake. He stopped so far away from the car in front that even with the shunt he didn't hit the car in front.
Car clearly a write off. However (he is mid 20's) he has major back problems now he cannot drive ever again, he cannot take the agony to his back a bus gives (vibrations and horrible seats) he cannot really walk too far - half a mile and he will be in big trouble for days to come. He cannot sit in a seat for too long, he hasn't been able to sleep properly without agony since the accident. He has been told there simply is nothing they can do - as you can imagine that's put him in a very dark place which we are all doing our best to try to make him see a positive future or alternative medical procedures. I hope one day he will stop having the pain and can live something resembling ordinary life.
Oh and the point of the above is it was (strongly denied) highly likely to be phone use due to no braking at all.

[Welshbeef]

joema said:

DamienB said:

So 10 years, out in what, 5? 6? And banned for driving for 7 years so back behind the wheel not long after coming out of jail.

Yep, justice served there then.

The video is on the Sun's website. What I don't get is why not one of the stationary queuing vehicles has simply used the outside lane, which is totally empty.

Bans now tend to start when they come out of prison.

In these incidents I don't see why it cannot be a lifetime driving ban. 4 lives lost due to his retardness/reckless driving.

For the remaining family regardless of the sentence that is what it is they have to try to move on god only knows how but they have to otherwise it will be 2 other lives the father and remaining son destroyed.