Britain's Jail System

[FredClogs]

Someone said you can tell a lot about a society by the way it treats its prisoners, I don't know who, probably Ghandi or some other liberal dogooder type to the left of the likes of Gove and May, Hitler maybe...

Anyway this article shocked me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-377086...

I don't expect much sympathy for the guy killed, his family and child maybe, but should we really be housing 1300 people in a jail even the Victorians thought would be full with 900?

[FredClogs]

98elise said:

Living in a prison is a choice.

Errr... Not really.

Here's another article written by a prison officer, since 2010 there's been nearly £900million of cut to the prison service budget.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network...

Is it a question of out of sight out of mind for the general public regarding what is seemingly a real problem?

We jail people for 3 reasons, to protect the public from them, to rehabilitate and educate offenders in the hope they won't re-offend and to punish offenders on behalf of society... If you really think about that last reason it sort of seems a bit odd, doesn't it? And should the level and threat of punishment really reflect the wider economic state of the country, I might punish my kids if they're naughty but the punishments are usually tailored to fit the crime, not my bank balance.

Edited by FredClogs on Thursday 20th October 09:19

[FredClogs]

Digga said:

Fastchas said:

The prison is still rife with mamba. I said the only way to keep is out is a complete ban on letters and paper from outside. Every prisoner to be emailed from their family/friends and the prison prints it off. The Governor is reluctant to do that but it's going to take a radical approach to get it stamped out.

If that is the case, the only way to deal with it, short of a total ban, is to ensure any post going into the unit has to be 'vouched for' by a designated sender who will face severe charges if there is found to be any smuggling. Deal with the problem at its source.

So you deal with the problem of a chronically underfunded jail system, facing more cuts, still using Victorian infrastructure by creating more criminals and jails birds to stick in it... The system seems to be on a death spiral as it is.

[FredClogs]

Digga said:

ey, I'm just working on the sales side here. Someone in production needs to step up their game, that's another matter.

I have no aversion to locking up more of our criminal underclass. Do you?

I have an aversion to it if it fails to prevent crime, either inside or outside the jail.

[FredClogs]

Digga said:

FredClogs said:

Digga said:

ey, I'm just working on the sales side here. Someone in production needs to step up their game, that's another matter.

I have no aversion to locking up more of our criminal underclass. Do you?

I have an aversion to it if it fails to prevent crime, either inside or outside the jail.

I don't necessarily believe it prevents crime in all cases, but I am 100% sure that the law abiding general public is safe from any criminal during the time they are staying at HMP.

People in jail don't count as members of the public? This guy was stabbed to death in jail.

Petty repeat offending linked to lifestyle choices and sub optimal parenting could be avoided by just paying people not to commit crime, it costs £40k a year (a 2 second google reveals) to keep someone in a UK jail. How's about paying them £39k a year to not commit crime - would that work and suit a logical and rational approach. Freeing up the resources to deal with the mentally ill, educationally challenged and broken minds you find in jails.

[FredClogs]

boxxob said:

The cost idea is a myth. The rate at which people commit what you call 'petty crime' has a much larger cost to society and the public. The burglaries, thefts/robberies, vandalism and general anti-social behaviour, that may be deemed petty, not only cost society far larger sums of money in direct losses, but you have the costs of the police and justice system and then the erosion of the feelings of security and well-being of the communities of victims. Anybody sent to prison for those crimes (unusual as it is) is likely to have committed hundreds of such offences beyond those they are convicted for. Sending someone to prison for driving at 100mph (yes, I know it will be classed as dd rather than speeding) where no harm actually resulted, is, in many cases, a waste of money.

You don't need to pay people to not commit crime, you simply need to pay this tiny section of community, from which the majority these people originate, to not have children in the first place.

You could, or you could educate them and give their lives hope and meaning so they don't embark on these self destructive negative cycles of behaviour, saving both money and moral quandary... Or you could just castrate them, you're right.

PH never disappoints.

[FredClogs]

Two prison related stories on the news tonight...

2 serious crims escape from Pentonvile by cutting through the bars and Bedford prison looks and sounds more like a freshers dorm, prison officers union boss on the telly just now saying the system is fubar'd. Underfunded and over used.

[FredClogs]

As widely expected things are going from bad to worse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-38...

[FredClogs]

Hull prison next...

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/hull-prison-br...

Having been to Hull yo have to wonder why they'd want to break out...