Smart Meters ITV Tonight
Discussion
It's irrational for the Govt to embark on a billion pound project whose USP - as evidenced in all of their tv adverts - is simply to save people the trouble of reading their meters.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Have you seen the tv programme? Do you know what the outcome was? I'll have to try and see it on catch-up?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Have you seen the tv programme? Do you know what the outcome was? I'll have to try and see it on catch-up?
Quiet day today ;-)
Mr SmartMeter – Hi, I've come to install your new smart meter.
Me – Oh, I think I'm fine as I am. I can't think of any reason why I should have one?
Mr SmartMeter – Well, you'll never have to check your meter to give us an accurate reading again saving you that onerous trip to the meter cupboard once every 3 months.
Me – I see, that sounds great, that trip is what did for my parents in the end. Is the smart meter free?
Mr SmartMeter – Kind of... it'll cost you about £100 - £200, we're not sure, it could be more... but we'll add it on to everybody's bills so it may as well be free, eh?
Me – I don't know, I'm fine as I am really... why are you doing this anyway?
Mr SmartMeter – Well, we're trying save money for people who are too stupid to save their own money for themselves.
Me – Oh, I see, well that's very noble – how will you use the smart meter to do that?
Mr SmartMeter – Easy – the smart meter will provide us with data which tells us when you're using the most electricity. We'll then increase the price of the electricity at those times. This will help you to use less of it. The smart meter will also tell us when you don't use electricity and we'll reduce the price of the electricity at those times. Because of this, the average quoted price of your electricity bill will be even less than before – easy! That's how smart meters will save you money!
Me – Wait a minute – doesn't that just mean I'll pay more for the electricity I use and less for the electricity I don't use? That won't save me any money! That will cost me more! And I'll have to pay for the cost of the meter too!
Mr SmartMeter – Well, what do you think we are? Charities? We can only make so much electricity and you muppets want to use it all at the same time – that ain't the way it works.
Me – Why don't you build another power station and make more electricity?
Mr SmartMeter – Do you have any idea how much that costs? Do you have any idea of the impact on our profit margins? On shareholder value? C'mon!!!
Me – Oh, I see, I thought you we're trying to help me. But you're not. You're just like all the others.
Mr SmartMeter – What do mean like all the others?
Me – You're just like Mr WaterMeter. He said I could save the environment by not using so much water. He said he'd help me do that with a water meter which would help me to use less water by charging me more for it. He got the Government to pass a law making me have a water meter and now I can only afford to flush my toilet once a day. My house smells and my children have dirty hands and sometimes they get sick from infections and unsanitary conditions.
I asked Mr WaterMeter why he didn't fix the leaks at the waterworks to save water and help the environment but he said he couldn't afford to do that and make a profit. He asked what sort of fool I was... which made me sad.
Mr SmartMeter – Hey, I'd never do that to you. You could always use the cheap electricity when you don't currently use electricity.
Me – I have to be at work then.
Mr SmartMeter – Couldn't you get a different job? Work nights or something?
Me – Only if they open schools for my kids at night too.
Mr SmartMeter – Well, I'm sorry about all that but you're just going to have to put up with it.
Me – That's what you think – I'll go and change my electricity supplier – it's still a free world you know! I'll show you!
Mr SmartMeter – Go ahead! Why not? Knock yourself out. Spend a few hours comparing our prices and pick a cheaper supplier and then in a year, their prices will go up and you'll find another supplier and eventually you'll end up back with me. Go and take a running jump on the Supplier Switching merry-go-round – but think about this – there's gas and there's electricity in the world and there's only so many sources in the world and so many power stations and we're all getting it from the same places at the same prices and selling you the same stuff. Up and down we put the prices, round and round you go – it's your time, it's your life – hey, what else have you got to do with it? Knock yourself out. Keeps you from thinking too much and doing anything to change it, eh?
Me – But I'm short of money. I can't pay more and more for electricity and water and then pay more and more for meters to make me pay more and more for electricity and water!
Mr SmartMeter – Well, it's your choice. Everybody else is happy enough to go along with it.
Me – I feel like such a fool.
Mr SmartMeter – Well, you're not alone there, that's one thing there's no shortage of – good day to you sir.
Mr SmartMeter – Hi, I've come to install your new smart meter.
Me – Oh, I think I'm fine as I am. I can't think of any reason why I should have one?
Mr SmartMeter – Well, you'll never have to check your meter to give us an accurate reading again saving you that onerous trip to the meter cupboard once every 3 months.
Me – I see, that sounds great, that trip is what did for my parents in the end. Is the smart meter free?
Mr SmartMeter – Kind of... it'll cost you about £100 - £200, we're not sure, it could be more... but we'll add it on to everybody's bills so it may as well be free, eh?
Me – I don't know, I'm fine as I am really... why are you doing this anyway?
Mr SmartMeter – Well, we're trying save money for people who are too stupid to save their own money for themselves.
Me – Oh, I see, well that's very noble – how will you use the smart meter to do that?
Mr SmartMeter – Easy – the smart meter will provide us with data which tells us when you're using the most electricity. We'll then increase the price of the electricity at those times. This will help you to use less of it. The smart meter will also tell us when you don't use electricity and we'll reduce the price of the electricity at those times. Because of this, the average quoted price of your electricity bill will be even less than before – easy! That's how smart meters will save you money!
Me – Wait a minute – doesn't that just mean I'll pay more for the electricity I use and less for the electricity I don't use? That won't save me any money! That will cost me more! And I'll have to pay for the cost of the meter too!
Mr SmartMeter – Well, what do you think we are? Charities? We can only make so much electricity and you muppets want to use it all at the same time – that ain't the way it works.
Me – Why don't you build another power station and make more electricity?
Mr SmartMeter – Do you have any idea how much that costs? Do you have any idea of the impact on our profit margins? On shareholder value? C'mon!!!
Me – Oh, I see, I thought you we're trying to help me. But you're not. You're just like all the others.
Mr SmartMeter – What do mean like all the others?
Me – You're just like Mr WaterMeter. He said I could save the environment by not using so much water. He said he'd help me do that with a water meter which would help me to use less water by charging me more for it. He got the Government to pass a law making me have a water meter and now I can only afford to flush my toilet once a day. My house smells and my children have dirty hands and sometimes they get sick from infections and unsanitary conditions.
I asked Mr WaterMeter why he didn't fix the leaks at the waterworks to save water and help the environment but he said he couldn't afford to do that and make a profit. He asked what sort of fool I was... which made me sad.
Mr SmartMeter – Hey, I'd never do that to you. You could always use the cheap electricity when you don't currently use electricity.
Me – I have to be at work then.
Mr SmartMeter – Couldn't you get a different job? Work nights or something?
Me – Only if they open schools for my kids at night too.
Mr SmartMeter – Well, I'm sorry about all that but you're just going to have to put up with it.
Me – That's what you think – I'll go and change my electricity supplier – it's still a free world you know! I'll show you!
Mr SmartMeter – Go ahead! Why not? Knock yourself out. Spend a few hours comparing our prices and pick a cheaper supplier and then in a year, their prices will go up and you'll find another supplier and eventually you'll end up back with me. Go and take a running jump on the Supplier Switching merry-go-round – but think about this – there's gas and there's electricity in the world and there's only so many sources in the world and so many power stations and we're all getting it from the same places at the same prices and selling you the same stuff. Up and down we put the prices, round and round you go – it's your time, it's your life – hey, what else have you got to do with it? Knock yourself out. Keeps you from thinking too much and doing anything to change it, eh?
Me – But I'm short of money. I can't pay more and more for electricity and water and then pay more and more for meters to make me pay more and more for electricity and water!
Mr SmartMeter – Well, it's your choice. Everybody else is happy enough to go along with it.
Me – I feel like such a fool.
Mr SmartMeter – Well, you're not alone there, that's one thing there's no shortage of – good day to you sir.
R8Steve said:
CrutyRammers said:
R8Steve said:
No, i don't.
There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
Your laughter is born of ignorance. The two biggest ddos attacks in history happened just recently, and we're mostly done using compromised home devices; cctv cameras, smart lightbulbs etc. Many of the current crop of "smart" devices have appallingly lax security and give attackers easy access to your WiFi and from there, anything connected to it. The tablet you do your banking on and all that stuff. Anything connected to the Internet and your home network is an attack vector, and the more things and connections there are, the more ways in there are.There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
I, on the other hand, have many secrets and intend to keep them so.
R8Steve said:
footnote said:
R8Steve said:
CrutyRammers said:
R8Steve said:
No, i don't.
There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
Your laughter is born of ignorance. The two biggest ddos attacks in history happened just recently, and we're mostly done using compromised home devices; cctv cameras, smart lightbulbs etc. Many of the current crop of "smart" devices have appallingly lax security and give attackers easy access to your WiFi and from there, anything connected to it. The tablet you do your banking on and all that stuff. Anything connected to the Internet and your home network is an attack vector, and the more things and connections there are, the more ways in there are.There is no microphones in them and i don't believe i'll ever start referring to my electricity meter as a possible attack vector and worrying about whether an RFID chip in my girlfriends hairdryer is secretly creating a radar map of my house to see what i'm doing or if i'm in or not.
I don't see why anyone would be even be remotely (no pun intended) interested in any of this information in any case but if foreign agencies want to know when i go to the toilet or watch a film it's a risk i'm willing to take.
I, on the other hand, have many secrets and intend to keep them so.
Although I know you wouldn't mind if they got you, so you're alright.
I can laugh about the surveillance but the cost and the pointlessness is a poor joke at your expense as well as mine.
Will Morris, Head of Retail at SSE says it best:
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
BigLion said:
footnote said:
Will Morris, Head of Retail at SSE says it best:
"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
Rich guy says not needed - not really a surprise ?"Would I have gone off on my own and spent that money to launch a smart meter programme - no I wouldn't."
We can argue the toss all day long but he knows better than anyone on here, so I'll take his word for it.
No ifs, no buts, no paranoia, straight up NO.
I would have thought it would be more applicable to those who actively try to manage their bills.
Rich guy who runs electricity company wishes they hadn't become involved in hugely expensive and wrongheaded scam and resulting PR disaster is my interpretation.
alock said:
I see a smart meter as a similar concept to a trip computer in a car.
My S2000 didn't have a trip computer. I put petrol in, enjoyed driving it, and never worried about fuel costs. My new Leon has a trip computer. It's annoyingly addictive to care about fuel economy. All it ultimately does is mean I sometimes look at it and think I should accelerate more gently.
It's a novelty for a short time. After that it's just depressing because it encourages you to do the sensible thing rather than the fun thing.
It's like that but if you think of the petrol station as the electricity company, every time you pull in to refuel they will check the data on your trip meter and charge you a higher rate per litre for your 'fun' usage.My S2000 didn't have a trip computer. I put petrol in, enjoyed driving it, and never worried about fuel costs. My new Leon has a trip computer. It's annoyingly addictive to care about fuel economy. All it ultimately does is mean I sometimes look at it and think I should accelerate more gently.
It's a novelty for a short time. After that it's just depressing because it encourages you to do the sensible thing rather than the fun thing.
At the moment the petrol station don't know or care or have any power over what you do with your fuel or when you use it - not the same with electricity when smart meters are fully active and peak pricing is introduced.
AyBee said:
footnote said:
It's like that but if you think of the petrol station as the electricity company, every time you pull in to refuel they will check the data on your trip meter and charge you a higher rate per litre for your 'fun' usage.
At the moment the petrol station don't know or care or have any power over what you do with your fuel or when you use it - not the same with electricity when smart meters are fully active and peak pricing is introduced.
At the moment the petrol station don't know or care or have any power over what you do with your fuel or when you use it - not the same with electricity when smart meters are fully active and peak pricing is introduced.
Electricity companies already charge more for peak usage...Compulsorily to domestic users?
Downward said:
Meh it's February the heatings on and so far in February I've used £65.43 in gas and electric.
There will be no shock bill for me for February. In fact my direct debit is £73 a month so it should balance nicely for when spring comes and the heating is not on as much.
Ha ha - it must be a great comfort to be looked after so well. There will be no shock bill for me for February. In fact my direct debit is £73 a month so it should balance nicely for when spring comes and the heating is not on as much.
It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!
djdest said:
footnote said:
Ha ha - it must be a great comfort to be looked after so well.
It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!
That's from cookies based on your browsing, not them monitoring your internet It's great when they monitor your internet too and supply you with adverts for your favourite products - and supply you with news matching your search profile rather than what actually happens in the world - snoozy!
Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
gruffalo said:
footnote said:
Ha ha!
Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
If you are worried delete the cookies then, not difficult.Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.
I am surprised neither you nor the other lad understand what cookies are.
gruffalo said:
If you are worried delete the cookies then, not difficult.
Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.
Back on topic - are you responsible for your own utility bills and if so, do you have a smart meter?Also tin foil in cheap and I am sure you can find some nice styles on the intern.........oh hold.
Do you want one or not? Why?
djdest said:
footnote said:
Ha ha!
Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
Wow, just wow Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
A zombie cookie is a cookie that is automatically recreated after being deleted. This is accomplished by storing the cookie's content in multiple locations, such as Flash Local shared object, HTML5 Web storage, and other client-side and even server-side locations. When the cookie's absence is detected, the cookie is recreated using the data stored in these locations.
djdest said:
footnote said:
Ha ha!
Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
Wow, just wow Do you think cookies are nice biscuits?
Or spontaneously produced randomly occurring pieces of helpful computer golddust?
You don't think they might be software designed by people to collect data on your browsing and then use that data to promote linked 'products'?
Otherwise known as 'monitoring your internet'?
Credulousness taken to new levels.
Are you responsible for your own utility bills and if so, do you have anything to add on the smart meter question?
Order66 said:
Hosenbugler said:
I spent more than the odd year in energy distribution, and can assure all, that smart meters are buggar all about the consumer. They ARE all about forcing behaviour change, charging different rates for energy at differing times of day , and ultimately, the rationing of that energy.
Basically, what they have done is persue an energy policy wherein they have no control over when power will actually be generated , thus they need to be able control usage when the wind ain't blowing, its insane, avoid said "smart" meters at all costs.
This. I have also worked in the energy distribution world and directly on "smart" meters for 17yrs now (all US based). They are absolutely not for the benefit of the consumer. It will be dressed up as such, but this is about fine-grain control of the network. In my world in particular it is about removing the need to reinforce the network to add new services - if they can accurately monitor demand in real time and "turn it down" to prevent burn-outs this enables a huge cost-saving in infrastructure. It will lead to a "contention-ratio" style power delivery where the quality of supply will be reduced and/or the price you pay at peak times will increased based on demand (like uber).Basically, what they have done is persue an energy policy wherein they have no control over when power will actually be generated , thus they need to be able control usage when the wind ain't blowing, its insane, avoid said "smart" meters at all costs.
If that's all they can come up with, God help us!
It's so obviously for their benefit, yet people/consumers seemingly can't perceive that fact. What's that about?
BlackLabel said:
"No-one's noticed, but the Tories are quietly killing off the smart meter revolution
ROSS ANDERSON
PROFESSOR OF SECURITY ENGINEERING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/...
Yay!!! Result! ROSS ANDERSON
PROFESSOR OF SECURITY ENGINEERING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/...
Here's hoping that's the end of Daft Meters.
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