My Trading journey.
Discussion
Hi Chaps,
Well my trading journey started 2 years ago after giving my business away to my business partner, as I found we could not work together. I asked to buy him out, or he buy me out, but since he wanted us to still work together I just walked away from a highly profitable business. Sometimes self-worth is more important than money.
I then started spread-betting trading from home, but did'nt have a clue what I was doing to the point where I'd be taking big risks(20%/trade), no stop-loss in place, and leaving positions open for weeks without looking at the position for days, which looking back could have wiped me out in a day.
I then decided to learn how to trade properly, so packed my bags, moved to london, and searches on the internet revealed alot of companies purporting to teach the holygrail of trading. I tried them all, and found out to my detrement that the only people making money in teaching trading is the teaching companies. With one company(K2A) I paid over £20,000, and found that what I learned there I could have learnt more from a basic book, and then some. Then with another company I paid over £8,000, and again I was taken in by the bandstand fanfare etc, and again didnt learn much more, as I was just feeling it was'nt for me, with over £40,000 spent and time I'd pack my bags and head back home relising the city streets arent paved with gold. I was talking to a friend about my move back home when he told me about this chap who trades from home, and sometimes teaches people too. The first question I asked my friend was "I bet he charges an arm, and a leg", and I wasnt wrong.
First of all when I rang this guy he told me he wasnt a teacher, and then he would'nt return my calls to which I thought "screw him. Why should I give my money to someone who cant even be bothered to return my calls". I then contacted my friend to let him know what had happened, and after a call from him, this chap decided to take me on. I tranfered £5,000 into his account, and was given an adress to go to. I was expecting to go to some training facilities , or even a conference room in a hotel at worst, but the address was residential, and again the alarm bells started ringing, and desevedly so.
I was greeted at the door by a stocky asian chap dripping in designer clothes, and expensive watch, again the alarm bells were going off ten to the dozen. Then we sat in his living room, and he asked me what I wanted from trading when suddenly I was attacked from behind by what I can only describe as a Cheetah. Fortunately for me it wasnt a Cheetah, as I learned, but a Savannah cat which looks wild, but isnt(I'm more of a dog person). Back to the conversation I told him what I wanted from trading, and I knew I was just spouting things from the other seminars that I had been to, and told him how I wanted to be super succesful, never have a losing trade, and make lots of money.
Some thing's he agreed with, and others he thought were at best impossible. We chatted some more, and after he basically disappointed me in breaking every illusion I had about trading, he then offered me my money back if I wished, and we'll shake hands and walk away. I decided to go forth with the course(thinking he probably wont, but i've made my bed etc).
over the next few days he basically made me thow away most of what I had learned, and all the indicators I had which made it impossible to read my chart. I was taught not how to read anything, but how to read a chart, and learn to love the little losses, and appreciate my winning trades. I watched this chap make over £26,000 in just over 3hrs.
Most importantly I was taught "the reasons behind why a trade is taken". As each day ended he gave me homework to do(back-testing, learning certain candle formations etc), which he expected to be done by the next day, or dont come back.
Ater a week I was done, and to be honest not only did I learn to how to trade properly, but my illusion's on this chap were totally wrong aswell. What a thoroughly genuine, and honest man he is.
The most unbelievable thing about this journey is how successfull my trading has became, and recently I was inspired by the horse betting thread that I've decided to relay my story to you chaps, and if its ok with you guys I would like to post up the trades that i am going to take.
P.S. I know there are a few active traders, and legal eagles that read these threads, so if by me posting up "my" trades is in anyway illegal, please let me know, and i wont post them.
Also these are my own trades and trades can go wrong, so I dont advise anyone to take them.
Regards,
Mr Fox.
Well my trading journey started 2 years ago after giving my business away to my business partner, as I found we could not work together. I asked to buy him out, or he buy me out, but since he wanted us to still work together I just walked away from a highly profitable business. Sometimes self-worth is more important than money.
I then started spread-betting trading from home, but did'nt have a clue what I was doing to the point where I'd be taking big risks(20%/trade), no stop-loss in place, and leaving positions open for weeks without looking at the position for days, which looking back could have wiped me out in a day.
I then decided to learn how to trade properly, so packed my bags, moved to london, and searches on the internet revealed alot of companies purporting to teach the holygrail of trading. I tried them all, and found out to my detrement that the only people making money in teaching trading is the teaching companies. With one company(K2A) I paid over £20,000, and found that what I learned there I could have learnt more from a basic book, and then some. Then with another company I paid over £8,000, and again I was taken in by the bandstand fanfare etc, and again didnt learn much more, as I was just feeling it was'nt for me, with over £40,000 spent and time I'd pack my bags and head back home relising the city streets arent paved with gold. I was talking to a friend about my move back home when he told me about this chap who trades from home, and sometimes teaches people too. The first question I asked my friend was "I bet he charges an arm, and a leg", and I wasnt wrong.
First of all when I rang this guy he told me he wasnt a teacher, and then he would'nt return my calls to which I thought "screw him. Why should I give my money to someone who cant even be bothered to return my calls". I then contacted my friend to let him know what had happened, and after a call from him, this chap decided to take me on. I tranfered £5,000 into his account, and was given an adress to go to. I was expecting to go to some training facilities , or even a conference room in a hotel at worst, but the address was residential, and again the alarm bells started ringing, and desevedly so.
I was greeted at the door by a stocky asian chap dripping in designer clothes, and expensive watch, again the alarm bells were going off ten to the dozen. Then we sat in his living room, and he asked me what I wanted from trading when suddenly I was attacked from behind by what I can only describe as a Cheetah. Fortunately for me it wasnt a Cheetah, as I learned, but a Savannah cat which looks wild, but isnt(I'm more of a dog person). Back to the conversation I told him what I wanted from trading, and I knew I was just spouting things from the other seminars that I had been to, and told him how I wanted to be super succesful, never have a losing trade, and make lots of money.
Some thing's he agreed with, and others he thought were at best impossible. We chatted some more, and after he basically disappointed me in breaking every illusion I had about trading, he then offered me my money back if I wished, and we'll shake hands and walk away. I decided to go forth with the course(thinking he probably wont, but i've made my bed etc).
over the next few days he basically made me thow away most of what I had learned, and all the indicators I had which made it impossible to read my chart. I was taught not how to read anything, but how to read a chart, and learn to love the little losses, and appreciate my winning trades. I watched this chap make over £26,000 in just over 3hrs.
Most importantly I was taught "the reasons behind why a trade is taken". As each day ended he gave me homework to do(back-testing, learning certain candle formations etc), which he expected to be done by the next day, or dont come back.
Ater a week I was done, and to be honest not only did I learn to how to trade properly, but my illusion's on this chap were totally wrong aswell. What a thoroughly genuine, and honest man he is.
The most unbelievable thing about this journey is how successfull my trading has became, and recently I was inspired by the horse betting thread that I've decided to relay my story to you chaps, and if its ok with you guys I would like to post up the trades that i am going to take.
P.S. I know there are a few active traders, and legal eagles that read these threads, so if by me posting up "my" trades is in anyway illegal, please let me know, and i wont post them.
Also these are my own trades and trades can go wrong, so I dont advise anyone to take them.
Regards,
Mr Fox.
mx stu said:
As someone who does the odd bit of trading here and there (but doesn't have the time to do enough research to make the big bucks) I'd be interested on seeing how you get on. Are you simply going to list your trades or talk about why you have chosen certain shares?
I think as long as you make it clear you are not giving advice and for people to do their own research I don't think you'd be doing anything illegal.
It's what the Naked Trader does anyway: http://www.nakedtrader.co.uk/trades.htm
Thank you for clearing that up. All I will be doing is posting up trades I am about to take before I take them.I think as long as you make it clear you are not giving advice and for people to do their own research I don't think you'd be doing anything illegal.
It's what the Naked Trader does anyway: http://www.nakedtrader.co.uk/trades.htm
NorthernBoy said:
I'll be interested to see how this goes.
However, as an opening question, if I may, why do you think that you are going to make money from trading, not lose it?
Markets are reasonably efficient, which means that there is not much money waiting around to be picked up. It's close to certain that there is no "secret" waiting to be discovered. No magic code, or "system", that will turn a profit.
In other business endeavours, there are customers willing to pay you profit for what you offer them, be that beans from Tesco, or just paying you to mow their lawn. In trading, you are very likely to be the customer, paying professionals a spread to deal with them.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm asking why you think that you can find a way to extract money from what is, on average, a losing proposition.
There is no certainty in trading, and one can lose money as easily as one makes it, but the difference is probability. If you can stack the odds in your favour there is MORE probability it will come to fruition, yet even when "rules" are followed things can go wrong.However, as an opening question, if I may, why do you think that you are going to make money from trading, not lose it?
Markets are reasonably efficient, which means that there is not much money waiting around to be picked up. It's close to certain that there is no "secret" waiting to be discovered. No magic code, or "system", that will turn a profit.
In other business endeavours, there are customers willing to pay you profit for what you offer them, be that beans from Tesco, or just paying you to mow their lawn. In trading, you are very likely to be the customer, paying professionals a spread to deal with them.
I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm asking why you think that you can find a way to extract money from what is, on average, a losing proposition.
I totally agree that all the way along I am the customer to the trading company I use, and now relise the markets are a "zero sum game", as for every winner there are hundreds of losers.
The reason why I think it can be done is that Ive had to sit there "back-testing" this strategy for over 12 months(I know most people would'nt think thats long enough, but when its been done on a bar to bar basis on a 30 min chart it is quite thorough yet exhausting).
Sometime's in life it's better to take a risk(calculated), than just sit there procrastinating.
[quote=Hoofy]Wait. Your only trading results are from back-testing?
Watching someone trade successfully is one thing but replicating his actions going forward is something else completely.
Good luck, though. (Sincerely!)[/quote
Thank You.
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.
I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
Watching someone trade successfully is one thing but replicating his actions going forward is something else completely.
Good luck, though. (Sincerely!)[/quote
Thank You.
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.
I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
NorthernBoy said:
Mr fox said:
None of my trading is from back-testing, as that was for me to do to see how probable the results are, although I did have to factor in most cases where my exit would be or where is a technical place to put my stop-loss etc.
I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
You've picked the most efficient market there is, so you are close to certain to have a negative drift.I totally agree with you that, just because you watch someone trade successfully, does not mean that you too become successfull, but I have been given a certain set of rules to follow, and hopefully will succeed.
A "system" only works if future movements can be predicted by past prices. In forex, that does not seem to be the case.
Have you actually analyzed your results, to make sure that your returns are differentials from noise? Do you understand enough to know that there are infinitely many losing strategies which are likely to make money in the short term, but which have a negative expectation value?
You seem short on facts at present, which makes your plans seem like the underpants gnomes. If you accept that it's a zero sum game, then why do you think that it makes sense to do?
Well I could fall flat on my face, and this is a risk I'm prepared to take.
I'm sure your a proffesional who does this for a living, and are very successfull at it, but for me it is a "trial by fire".
Would you not agree that it's a zero sum game in the respect that what ever you win on a trade has not come from anywhere else, but a trader whose lost money. I could be very wrong, and dont mind being educated by experts like yourself, but for the moment I am closed to listen to any advise, and just concentrate my energies to what I've been taught, and apply those.
AUD
SL moved to break even point, now no stress in trade. target is minimum of 20 pips, but may let it run longer if market conditions allow.
Stop triggered so out for zero.
AUD long if 0.9966 is breached.
Taken again when level broken. Aud short@0.9959
out for 18 pips@£100/pip.
Not bad for 1hrs work.
SL moved to break even point, now no stress in trade. target is minimum of 20 pips, but may let it run longer if market conditions allow.
Stop triggered so out for zero.
AUD long if 0.9966 is breached.
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 07:22
Taken again when level broken. Aud short@0.9959
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 07:44
out for 18 pips@£100/pip.
Not bad for 1hrs work.
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 07:48
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 08:33
vetrof said:
Good luck Mr Fox. I'll be watching with interest.
I dabbled with Forex a couple of years ago after gaining the most superficial level of knowledge. In my first couple of days I was up 25% and was lulled into a false sense of confidence. Needless to say I got carried away. Too many open trades, moving my stop/losses instead of taking profit, etc. Inevitably I ended up losing my money. The earlier poster who mentioned psychology is spot on.I am currently rereading http://www.babypips.com/school/ and will start demo trading shortly.
What trader/trading platform are you using? What charts/indicators are ou using?
La Liga is 100% right. I'm using FXCM, as a broker through E-signal, and the only indicator I'm using is a horizontal line.I dabbled with Forex a couple of years ago after gaining the most superficial level of knowledge. In my first couple of days I was up 25% and was lulled into a false sense of confidence. Needless to say I got carried away. Too many open trades, moving my stop/losses instead of taking profit, etc. Inevitably I ended up losing my money. The earlier poster who mentioned psychology is spot on.I am currently rereading http://www.babypips.com/school/ and will start demo trading shortly.
What trader/trading platform are you using? What charts/indicators are ou using?
vetrof said:
OK, I see. Without going into your specifics, do you want to let us know the rules? Are they technical analysis based? Which in particular? etc. Just interested. Not trying to get you to give up your specifics.
With all due respect, as this is not my system or rules please excuse me if I dont divulge what "rules" I am following, as I dont have permission from the person whom taught me. Yes they are all technical based.Regards
Mr Fox.
Possible good short forming on EUR/JPY if 102 is broken, but one has to show caution around whole numbers.
long on NZD now at 0.7651, medium risk will just try and scalp a few pips.
Out of NZD at 7.7 pips.
long on NZD now at 0.7651, medium risk will just try and scalp a few pips.
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 08:24
Out of NZD at 7.7 pips.
Edited by Mr fox on Thursday 17th May 08:26
mx stu said:
Looking like a good start to the day.
Not that I doubt what you are doing for a minute, but rather than editing posts could you make new posts otherwise it would easy for someone to claim you are deleting bad trades or amending your numbers to make it look like you are winning.
Actually that would be a lot easier for me aswell, but the reason why I edited was so I could keep each trade clumped together, but as you have advised I will just make new posts.Not that I doubt what you are doing for a minute, but rather than editing posts could you make new posts otherwise it would easy for someone to claim you are deleting bad trades or amending your numbers to make it look like you are winning.
Regards
Mr Fox.
R11ysf said:
Mattt said:
Bit of a strange tale!!
+1,000!!The story reads very strangely, almost like an advertorial for the Zen Master you encountered. A few things I'll point out for any people who find themselves in a position similar to yours in the future:
Anyone who charges thousands of pounds for trading courses is a con at best and fraudulent at worst. There are plenty of reputable companies out there who do a trading course with the intention of backing you and making money from a cut of your profits and round turn fees. They invest in you and WANT you to SUCCEED. Charging you 20k to "learn" how to trade is a joke and just a pure rip off as once they have the cheque signed where is any more revenue for them? They'd probably prefer if your trading took a nose dive so you would need a refresher course! That £20k would be exponentially better invested by trading actively on small size in a professional environment and learning from your mistakes.
Secondly you CAN NOT learn to trade in 5 days regardless of what any shaolin monk tells you. If it was that easy then why would anyone do any other job in the world. £26k in 3 hours - yeah I think most people who earn that for a year's work would give someone £5k to learn how to do it in 1 week!
Trading takes years to learn properly and one of the things anyone who has traded successfully for a number of years is that your "model" is constantly adapting. 12 months backtesting? Yeah seems fine but you have to think of all of the changing factors over time and how they create different conditions. Liquidity crisis, banking crisis, sovereign crisis, they all effect markets differently and so models are always tweaked and continually improved to adjust.
There are trades you will do now that will be disastrous in a year's time. There are trades that will make you loads of money in a year's time that you haven't even thought of yet. Adapting is the only way to survive.
I wish you the best of luck but I think you will learn more trading in a few months than you will from any of these teachers. I would also look at other markets too as I know hundreds successful and not so successful traders and have never met a single one who made consistent money in outright currencies.
Yes your right. I did pay a lot of money, and in most cases I was ripped off, but since there was no one to tell me what worked, and what didnt I had to learn the hard way. I wasnt born with a silver spoon in my mouth, but was taught that hard work, and persistance pays off. This "model" or "system" is not the holy grail of some sort of majicical trading, but deals a lot in psychology, and things it is quite easy to over look.
I could fall flat on my face, or naturally do well at this, and all I can do is give it my best shot, but what ever happens obviously you'll agree lessons will be learnt by me, and many others.
Regards
Mr Fox.
205alive said:
This thread is now in my small collection of bookmarks and while I can't offer anything other than interest, support and envy - very best of luck Mr. Fox and keep the updates coming.
Thank you very much for your support, and I'm sure there's no need for envy, as along this journey there will be peaks, and troughs. All I can do is try my best, and if I fail, so be it, and naturally if I succeed I will be happy.Regards
Mr Fox.
Its been a good day today, but I'm sure it's just beginners luck.
AM results
AUD 18 - 1.8(spread)
NZD 7.7- 1.5(spread)
22.4 pips.
Afternnon session
GBP 58.8 - 1 (spread)
EUR/JPY 42.5 -1.5(spread)
98.8 pips
total for the day
Am £2240
Pm £2964
£5204.
I should have ideally let the PM trades run, but have to go take the dog for a walk, and to be honest it's been a very good day so I'm going to take the rest of the day off.
AM results
AUD 18 - 1.8(spread)
NZD 7.7- 1.5(spread)
22.4 pips.
Afternnon session
GBP 58.8 - 1 (spread)
EUR/JPY 42.5 -1.5(spread)
98.8 pips
total for the day
Am £2240
Pm £2964
£5204.
I should have ideally let the PM trades run, but have to go take the dog for a walk, and to be honest it's been a very good day so I'm going to take the rest of the day off.
Cheib said:
Good luck with it.....it's a long and hard road. I've been trading and/or managing other people's money for twenty years and learn something new all the time which is brilliant but also can be incredibly frustrating.
I've never traded currencies and my trading/investment style is much more based on fundamentals because of the markets I trade....the technical trading strategies you're employing aren't applicable to my world but good luck with it.
Thank You. I've never traded currencies and my trading/investment style is much more based on fundamentals because of the markets I trade....the technical trading strategies you're employing aren't applicable to my world but good luck with it.
The techniques that I am using apply to any chart it dosent matter if its stocks, index's, indicies, or forex
etc. I prefer forex as it is quite a volatile market, thus the gains are much higher, BUT on the flip side I do understand that the losses can be greater, and this is a FACT I have accepted.
In this style that I have been shown it is IMPERITIVE that I don't ignore the fundamentals, but make sure they concurr with the technical trades. If not then I wont take the trade, and look for one where concurence is there.
Regards
Mr Fox
Cheib said:
Mr fox said:
Cheib said:
Good luck with it.....it's a long and hard road. I've been trading and/or managing other people's money for twenty years and learn something new all the time which is brilliant but also can be incredibly frustrating.
I've never traded currencies and my trading/investment style is much more based on fundamentals because of the markets I trade....the technical trading strategies you're employing aren't applicable to my world but good luck with it.
Thank You. I've never traded currencies and my trading/investment style is much more based on fundamentals because of the markets I trade....the technical trading strategies you're employing aren't applicable to my world but good luck with it.
The techniques that I am using apply to any chart it dosent matter if its stocks, index's, indicies, or forex
etc. I prefer forex as it is quite a volatile market, thus the gains are much higher, BUT on the flip side I do understand that the losses can be greater, and this is a FACT I have accepted.
In this style that I have been shown it is IMPERITIVE that I don't ignore the fundamentals, but make sure they concurr with the technical trades. If not then I wont take the trade, and look for one where concurence is there.
Regards
Mr Fox
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