Proprietary Trading
Discussion
Hi all,
I was looking for any info some of you may have about the above subject.
I've been selected from a few hundred to go down to Sydney and get some training in derivatives as I only have experience in spot FX.
If I show enough aptitude I'll be offered a position to trade their money and take a profit split.
I am self taught and have no qualifications in trading. I've heard any IB would be put off by seeing a prop shop on a CV?
I was looking for any info some of you may have about the above subject.
I've been selected from a few hundred to go down to Sydney and get some training in derivatives as I only have experience in spot FX.
If I show enough aptitude I'll be offered a position to trade their money and take a profit split.
I am self taught and have no qualifications in trading. I've heard any IB would be put off by seeing a prop shop on a CV?
R11ysf said:
Chilli,
I think he means Investment bank not Interdealer Broker.
Dubai,
Will they see it as a put off? Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on what you do, for how long and how successfully. However, the upside is that if you are good enough then you never need to worry about sucking that corporate pole at all and will retire happily from prop trading!
However, read what DA wrote. Firms vary hugely in reputation and what they actually do. $1k in Oz sounds like less than minimum wage considering the hours you'll be working, 60+ hours a week x 4.5 weeks is <$10 an hour.
Some firms will provide huge amounts of backup, advice, training and most importantly push you when they see you doing well. This will also mean increased size and bigger limits. If you are there for 6 months, pick up nothing and leave it will be a waste but not a big one. If you genuinely "get it" and start at a good firm you can get bigger and then renegotiate any costs. once you are making $20k+ a month then desk fees don't really matter that much.
Just be careful not to do what a lot of guys do in London, which is dick around for 5-10 years getting £30-40k a year not working that hard just for the "lifestyle" so they can tell people they are a "trader". They are the guys who get to 35-40, realise they have no savings, the type of trading they do no longer works and they have no CV to get a new job. They are then f
ked.
If the company is good and will actually teach you to trade then definitely give it a go as the upside is unlimited and exponentially faster than any IB. Just be careful as DA says there are a lot of bucket shops out there.
Thanks R11, sound advice.I think he means Investment bank not Interdealer Broker.
Dubai,
Will they see it as a put off? Maybe, maybe not. It really depends on what you do, for how long and how successfully. However, the upside is that if you are good enough then you never need to worry about sucking that corporate pole at all and will retire happily from prop trading!
However, read what DA wrote. Firms vary hugely in reputation and what they actually do. $1k in Oz sounds like less than minimum wage considering the hours you'll be working, 60+ hours a week x 4.5 weeks is <$10 an hour.
Some firms will provide huge amounts of backup, advice, training and most importantly push you when they see you doing well. This will also mean increased size and bigger limits. If you are there for 6 months, pick up nothing and leave it will be a waste but not a big one. If you genuinely "get it" and start at a good firm you can get bigger and then renegotiate any costs. once you are making $20k+ a month then desk fees don't really matter that much.
Just be careful not to do what a lot of guys do in London, which is dick around for 5-10 years getting £30-40k a year not working that hard just for the "lifestyle" so they can tell people they are a "trader". They are the guys who get to 35-40, realise they have no savings, the type of trading they do no longer works and they have no CV to get a new job. They are then f
ked.If the company is good and will actually teach you to trade then definitely give it a go as the upside is unlimited and exponentially faster than any IB. Just be careful as DA says there are a lot of bucket shops out there.
Indeed, the $1k isn't going to go very far but as DA rightly says, an awful lot of these types of firms actually charge the trainee for the privilege. At least I'm getting some small recompense for my time even if I do not make the cut. I've got some money saved from my own trading and work so there isn't pressure from that side.
I feel like I've reached a personal limit with my own trading. I'm lacking in discipline on occasions and I think some professional trading will help me enormously and as you say, even if it doesn't work out, at least I'll have learnt a new area of trading and gained some more experience.
Thought i'd update this as it has been a while.
I was making very nice progress until mid March until I got some more size to trade and the last 3 weeks have been nothing short of a hellhole. I've lost the consistency that allowed me to trade more size and I'm making poor decisions when in a spread trade.
I've stripped things back to basics and dropped my sizing to try and build some confidence again.
This game is an absolute head wrecker. One minute you're loving life and the next it's pandemonium.
Desk fees have kicked in now too so it really is crunch time now to start making some good profits.
I was making very nice progress until mid March until I got some more size to trade and the last 3 weeks have been nothing short of a hellhole. I've lost the consistency that allowed me to trade more size and I'm making poor decisions when in a spread trade.
I've stripped things back to basics and dropped my sizing to try and build some confidence again.
This game is an absolute head wrecker. One minute you're loving life and the next it's pandemonium.
Desk fees have kicked in now too so it really is crunch time now to start making some good profits.
Thanks guys, some good words of encouragement.
I think what hasn't helped is my mentor, if you will, has been giving me a hard time saying the rest of the office is killing it whilst I'm the black sheep who had a bad March. I freely admit I'm a person who thrives on confidence in anything I do and always trade better when feeling confident.
Desk fees are very reasonable at $2.5k and I'm also getting 50% rebate on my commissions as long as I hit 25,000 trips in my first 9 months, or something along those lines.
I've found my entries have been fine, I've just been struggling on my exits. Either exiting way too early or too late. I've also adjusted my clip size as I feel as I was going in too big too quickly and with the volatility in the Aus 10yrs it's caught me out.
Looking to branch into the SPI and Emini soon as just trading bonds has its setbacks when things get tough.
I think what hasn't helped is my mentor, if you will, has been giving me a hard time saying the rest of the office is killing it whilst I'm the black sheep who had a bad March. I freely admit I'm a person who thrives on confidence in anything I do and always trade better when feeling confident.
Desk fees are very reasonable at $2.5k and I'm also getting 50% rebate on my commissions as long as I hit 25,000 trips in my first 9 months, or something along those lines.
I've found my entries have been fine, I've just been struggling on my exits. Either exiting way too early or too late. I've also adjusted my clip size as I feel as I was going in too big too quickly and with the volatility in the Aus 10yrs it's caught me out.
Looking to branch into the SPI and Emini soon as just trading bonds has its setbacks when things get tough.
This is the incentive program: http://www.cmegroup.com/company/membership/interna...
The shop makes $1 every r/t I make so no doubt they love active traders.
I'm spreading it against tnote and on occasions the Aus 3 yr known as the curve.
I do trade outrights in tnote but mostly always in the spread on an intraday basis. We can't hold positions over the a.m close or the weekend, which is a ball breaker as my longer term view tends to come to fruition more often than not.
I watch the Aus Bills for a lead but can't trade them yet.
The shop makes $1 every r/t I make so no doubt they love active traders.
I'm spreading it against tnote and on occasions the Aus 3 yr known as the curve.
I do trade outrights in tnote but mostly always in the spread on an intraday basis. We can't hold positions over the a.m close or the weekend, which is a ball breaker as my longer term view tends to come to fruition more often than not.
I watch the Aus Bills for a lead but can't trade them yet.
R11ysf said:
$1 a r/t and $3k desk fees. 
fk me, they must be coining it in!
What split do you get?
Split is 50/50 and goes to 55/45 in my favour after $25k profits which I wasn't far away from before mid March! fk me, they must be coining it in!What split do you get?
They've been around nearly 9yrs now and obviously have a good business model. They've expanded into Singapore recently also.
Mr fox said:
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with March being an unreliable month. It has been absolutely fantastic if you know what your doing.
But if your using a trending strategy for a consolidating market for eg, then your making the most basic of errors which is you dont know how to read a chart.
P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack.
Regards
Mr Fox
Eh? Who said anyone was using a trending strategy?But if your using a trending strategy for a consolidating market for eg, then your making the most basic of errors which is you dont know how to read a chart.
P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack.
Regards
Mr Fox
DonkeyApple said:
I'll be honest here and say that some of the things you mention above are a little concerning. Being incentivised through rebates is extremely dangerous and indicates that the firm is focussing on flow rather than performance/fees. That is only ever going to lead to fund destruction. Your mentor sounds like he is earning off your flow, so he is going to be running with a bias that will make him want you to create volume rather than profits.
Also, what does your $2.5/month buy you?
Maybe I didn't make it 100% clear. The shop isn't giving me incentives, it's purely a new trader thing from the CME group. My shop has nothing to do with it.Also, what does your $2.5/month buy you?
I have no doubt the shop is earning a pretty penny off every trader in rebates but equally they have some great traders here who I'm trying to learn from. Apparently one guy does 10% of the SPI volume most days, dreamy!
My mentor is just a complete t
t some days who doesn't give anything other than tough love.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff