On £25k but 'poor'?! Misery thread...
Discussion
Been umming and ahhing about whether or not to type this up or not, as it seems a bit of a whinge and I'm sure there are many out there who are worse off than I am.
However; as per the title, with the recent tax credit evaluation we are no longer entitled to Child Tax Credit which is going to hit us hard.
Thing is; every week is a struggle with the shopping bill.
My girlfriend doesn't work; I work full-time. I consider £25k to be modest given the economic 'climate' (hate that expression!) despite being on this wage 4 years ago before the company I did work for went belly-up, I've worked my way back up to £25kpa.
I don't want my girlfriend to have to work; she is there to look after our daughter. If she goes back to work the amount of hours she would need to spend away from home just to cover the childcare costs is stupid. And then what do you gain from that? Less time spent being a mother, with no money left as a result? Seems backwards.
I've looked at our monthly outgoings and can't really reduce anything without it impacting our quality of life considerably.
Rent - £715/month
Cncl Tax - £129/month
Electric - £95/month
Telephone / internet bill - £32/month
Water - £40
That already stands me over a grand before I've done anything.
I sold my car last year for a less expensive one to try and become debt-free, but it hasn't worked, I'm still in debt due to having to move house again and purchasing lots of new furniture.
I basically wanted to reach out and ask what others had done in similar situations?
My girlfriend is able to work and seriously considering it, but our daughter is 9 months old and I've looked into the childcare costs and they are approx. 50% of what I make in a day, per day!!! Madness. She would effectively be working to gain us entitlement to further tax credit.
I can try for a payrise but I'm almost certain it won't happen. I work hard, but we've struggled (as a company) until very recently. Moving to a higher paid job is a nice theory but there's not much out there, and job security is good where I am at present and this is important in my situation.
Just feel a bit pooped.
However; as per the title, with the recent tax credit evaluation we are no longer entitled to Child Tax Credit which is going to hit us hard.
Thing is; every week is a struggle with the shopping bill.
My girlfriend doesn't work; I work full-time. I consider £25k to be modest given the economic 'climate' (hate that expression!) despite being on this wage 4 years ago before the company I did work for went belly-up, I've worked my way back up to £25kpa.
I don't want my girlfriend to have to work; she is there to look after our daughter. If she goes back to work the amount of hours she would need to spend away from home just to cover the childcare costs is stupid. And then what do you gain from that? Less time spent being a mother, with no money left as a result? Seems backwards.
I've looked at our monthly outgoings and can't really reduce anything without it impacting our quality of life considerably.
Rent - £715/month
Cncl Tax - £129/month
Electric - £95/month
Telephone / internet bill - £32/month
Water - £40
That already stands me over a grand before I've done anything.
I sold my car last year for a less expensive one to try and become debt-free, but it hasn't worked, I'm still in debt due to having to move house again and purchasing lots of new furniture.
I basically wanted to reach out and ask what others had done in similar situations?
My girlfriend is able to work and seriously considering it, but our daughter is 9 months old and I've looked into the childcare costs and they are approx. 50% of what I make in a day, per day!!! Madness. She would effectively be working to gain us entitlement to further tax credit.
I can try for a payrise but I'm almost certain it won't happen. I work hard, but we've struggled (as a company) until very recently. Moving to a higher paid job is a nice theory but there's not much out there, and job security is good where I am at present and this is important in my situation.
Just feel a bit pooped.
I have thought about gaining further qualifications but there seems little out there in my line of work, which is within the construction / manufacturing industry but office-based. I couldn't find a course locally which would provide me with a valid qualification.
I will update my CV as it's been a few months since I last looked around for other work, regardless.
I will update my CV as it's been a few months since I last looked around for other work, regardless.
Thanks for all the advice / words people.
She's a part-qualified dental nurse and has been offered work at a local practice. Problem is, she can't drive, which represents even more issues with getting her back to work. Her father has bought her a car, but in order for her to get back to work she has to pass her test, get insured and get to the place of work, which is going to cost us money we don't have. Catch 22!
I work bloody hard, but the company isn't keen to develop into anything, they are just happy balancing the books and riding the tide of work we bring in. For reference, I'm an estimator / salesman for a timber door company, working in the construction industry. Work is surprisingly abundant right now.
MiseryStreak said:
You're not alone. It is tough at our age/time of life, I have a two year old and another on the way. My wife works, 4 days a week, that's how we manage. She earns £26K doing that. We don't have a penny left over after all the bills are paid. We don't receive any tax credits. My classic car, completely impractical and frivolous, managed to survive the last child but it's going up for sale soon. I honestly don't understand how people manage on less but I guess it's because you don't have a choice, I've been much poorer in my life but then I didn't have dependents (so just went hungry) and I ran up thousands on credit cards.
I would suggest look at some nurseries and your wife working part time, if you have friends with children then you could even share a nanny which can be cheaper than nursery. Some parents are very against nurseries but I tend to have a more rounded view as it does help them with forming relationships with fellow children and setting them up for school. My wife did three days a week when our daughter was 14 months, then moved to four days when she turned two. She loves nursery now and screams with delight when shes sees her friends in the morning. The good news is once they turn three, the government (or as a taxpayer - me) pay for 15 hours a week childcare, which we're looking forward to.
It's tough, but it gets easier. School is free (unless you want to go private).
Worksleepworksleepworksleepworksleepbreedworksleepworksleepworksleepretirdead.
It's mad, but I think the costs she got for childcare at the nursery around the corner were in the region of £40 a day. That's a big chunk of what she could expect to earn in a day! I would suggest look at some nurseries and your wife working part time, if you have friends with children then you could even share a nanny which can be cheaper than nursery. Some parents are very against nurseries but I tend to have a more rounded view as it does help them with forming relationships with fellow children and setting them up for school. My wife did three days a week when our daughter was 14 months, then moved to four days when she turned two. She loves nursery now and screams with delight when shes sees her friends in the morning. The good news is once they turn three, the government (or as a taxpayer - me) pay for 15 hours a week childcare, which we're looking forward to.
It's tough, but it gets easier. School is free (unless you want to go private).
Worksleepworksleepworksleepworksleepbreedworksleepworksleepworksleepretirdead.
She's a part-qualified dental nurse and has been offered work at a local practice. Problem is, she can't drive, which represents even more issues with getting her back to work. Her father has bought her a car, but in order for her to get back to work she has to pass her test, get insured and get to the place of work, which is going to cost us money we don't have. Catch 22!
Odie said:
My situation is completely different to yours, But your rent and council tax look rather high, my rents around half yours and my council tax is about 2/3rds of what your paying.
My electricity and water are also alot less too.
Id thought that if i had a wife/gf and kid I would actually be better off.
Im on 27k a year and am looking at buy a porsche 996... But im single and dont have any dependants.
I think you just need to tough it out until your child is old enough to go to school and so your GF can get a job.
ETA - Working hard only gets you one thing, tired. Work smart
We were living in a pokey flat at £675/month, so the £40 jump to a small house with driveway and garden didn't seem to extreme for what it offered. It's about average for a small house / 2-bed flat in the area. Again, we have looked at moving further afield but this will see my girlfriend cut-off socially as she has not got her driving license yet.My electricity and water are also alot less too.
Id thought that if i had a wife/gf and kid I would actually be better off.
Im on 27k a year and am looking at buy a porsche 996... But im single and dont have any dependants.
I think you just need to tough it out until your child is old enough to go to school and so your GF can get a job.
ETA - Working hard only gets you one thing, tired. Work smart
I work bloody hard, but the company isn't keen to develop into anything, they are just happy balancing the books and riding the tide of work we bring in. For reference, I'm an estimator / salesman for a timber door company, working in the construction industry. Work is surprisingly abundant right now.
Yell_M3 said:
What kind of work do you do?
As above, I'm an estimator-come-salesman in the construction industry. It bears no resemblance to my skills in CAD but I have always been a natural sales person, so I've kind of 'ended up' here!jdw1234 said:
Can your girlfiend look after another kid at the same time for payment?
We are trying this option too, however the parent has been continually letting us down and I think we will need to start asking others, as she has arranged for my girlfriend to look after her kids one day and cancelled in the evening on the day before, which is not very courteous when we have made arrangements ourselves - grr!It's taken a while to read back through this thread!
Some very helpful answers and some...not so much.
We wanted a child, I don't resent our decision one bit, it's truly the most fulfilling thing you can do in life, I honestly believe that.
Also I appreciate that being 'poor' is relative, hence it being in quotation marks in my thread title. I'm not poor compared to an African, but I also don't have spare money at the end of every month.
Assumptions are correct about the 'leccy bills - the house has no gas supply, so electric everything. The £95/month is based on our last quarterly bill, which took us through January-early April, so it was cold. I want to base it on being this so I'm not caught short later in the year, but I'm hopeful our next bill will be considerably lower!
I've looked into part-time work myself, but there's very little out there. I've explained to my girlfriend that if she wants any form of 'spare' money; the only real option is to return to working.
Otherwise we will continue managing on what we have. We're just a bit gutted that since I seemed to have earned over the 25k threshold the tax credits have stopped completely, what incentive is that to work hard!? As unfortunately we are now worse-off monthly than we were before the latest evaluation for the last tax year.
I'm trying not to drone on!
What makes it harder is seeing leeches like one of my siblings who get everything paid for but seem to have a much higher quality of life despite what they theoretically 'deserve' back from the government.
I've explained to the girlfriend that looking at others' situations is only going to make you bitter and twisted, and to try and be proud that we are where we are and who we are because of hard work and commitment.
But it's tough when you have to make the call between baby milk and nappies...which will last until payday!?
Some very helpful answers and some...not so much.
We wanted a child, I don't resent our decision one bit, it's truly the most fulfilling thing you can do in life, I honestly believe that.
Also I appreciate that being 'poor' is relative, hence it being in quotation marks in my thread title. I'm not poor compared to an African, but I also don't have spare money at the end of every month.
Assumptions are correct about the 'leccy bills - the house has no gas supply, so electric everything. The £95/month is based on our last quarterly bill, which took us through January-early April, so it was cold. I want to base it on being this so I'm not caught short later in the year, but I'm hopeful our next bill will be considerably lower!
I've looked into part-time work myself, but there's very little out there. I've explained to my girlfriend that if she wants any form of 'spare' money; the only real option is to return to working.
Otherwise we will continue managing on what we have. We're just a bit gutted that since I seemed to have earned over the 25k threshold the tax credits have stopped completely, what incentive is that to work hard!? As unfortunately we are now worse-off monthly than we were before the latest evaluation for the last tax year.
I'm trying not to drone on!
What makes it harder is seeing leeches like one of my siblings who get everything paid for but seem to have a much higher quality of life despite what they theoretically 'deserve' back from the government.
I've explained to the girlfriend that looking at others' situations is only going to make you bitter and twisted, and to try and be proud that we are where we are and who we are because of hard work and commitment.
But it's tough when you have to make the call between baby milk and nappies...which will last until payday!?
I have a spreadsheet named 'Monthly Outgoings' which lists everything I can think of.
No savings to be found on the car, after downgrading from the Focus to the older 306 diesel I'm doing 53ish mpg on average and insurance sets me back £55 a month. Car is overdue a service by 2000 miles but I can't really stretch to the parts yet. Once I can I'll do it all myself.
No savings to be found on the car, after downgrading from the Focus to the older 306 diesel I'm doing 53ish mpg on average and insurance sets me back £55 a month. Car is overdue a service by 2000 miles but I can't really stretch to the parts yet. Once I can I'll do it all myself.
New POD said:
If there is an Optimum age it's probably mid 20's
Precisely, and I don't think you can get more 'mid' than 25!As people have said for me; I'm not after sympathy, just advice. I appreciate that there are people worse off than me, who would be grateful for the wages I receive.
I am grateful, and I have worked hard since leaving school and starting an apprenticeship at 17 (you know, those things the government just pumped loads of money into so as to get young people working for f*ckall with the premise of a qualification at the end of it!) I just feel hard done by, that's all. Not that I want more benefits or hand-outs, just that everything seems too bloody expensive in respect of the money I earn.
I've followed some of the suggestions in here already, and for the next month I'm monitoring absolutely every transaction on my account. On Friday we went into Aldi, never been there before. Lots of random stuff, but essentials were generally cheaper than Tesco which is where we have been shopping to-date. Annoyingly there were a couple of essentials we needed for our daughter so we ended up going to Tesco anyway, which meant we were out shopping for what seemed like a lifetime! But I'm certain there is a saving there and I'll be doing the same at the end of this week. My target is to get our weekly shop under £40. This gets annhialated when little one needs nappies or milk powder though!
Someone asked what my girlfriend used to do - she is/was a dental nurse and is currently 80% of the way through her qualification. She can pick this back up at any time, but as I understand it you need to have taken an exam to practice in any dentistry every 2 years, her last exam being over 2 years ago. Trouble is; dentist practices aren't usually open in the evening for long and she doesn't want our daughter to go into care.
We have some friends who are in a similar situation but the mother has already returned to work, because the grandparents do the babysitting. Unfortunately that isn't an option for us, which is a bit of a bugger!
Thanks for the kind words so far and any more advice you can offer is much appreciated. The girlfriend is drawing in a little bit of money doing party bags for childrens' birthdays and advertises at the local nursery and all over Facebook, so if anyone can recommend anywhere I can buy sweets and other party guff from I would be grateful...
Just thought I'd update this thread...
Nothing has really improved 'yet' but my girlfriend has got herself a part-time job bringing in much needed spare cash. I'll still have to cover all the bills with my own salary, but hopefully this will make Christmas more affordable and any days out can be paid for (by days out, perhaps a cheeky £10 to have a cake and a coffee in a cafe!)
Once Christmas is out of the way we can focus on getting her through her driving test and hopefully look at putting money away in a savings account.
I'm keen not to use my credit cards this Christmas but without them I don't know how I'm going to buy my girlfriend anything at all! She's dropped hints about this purse she wants - it's only £10 - but I can't afford it this month. Gutted.
On the upside our daughter is costing less and less, she now eats mostly what we eat, just mushed up a bit, which saves making a separate dish or buying those horrible jars of food. She gets through less nappies too and clothes aren't getting ruined as regularly! We are going to an NCT 'nearly new sale' in a week which I would highly recommend to anyone, great place to buy clothes for the baby.
I'm sure it'll get better!
Nothing has really improved 'yet' but my girlfriend has got herself a part-time job bringing in much needed spare cash. I'll still have to cover all the bills with my own salary, but hopefully this will make Christmas more affordable and any days out can be paid for (by days out, perhaps a cheeky £10 to have a cake and a coffee in a cafe!)
Once Christmas is out of the way we can focus on getting her through her driving test and hopefully look at putting money away in a savings account.
I'm keen not to use my credit cards this Christmas but without them I don't know how I'm going to buy my girlfriend anything at all! She's dropped hints about this purse she wants - it's only £10 - but I can't afford it this month. Gutted.
On the upside our daughter is costing less and less, she now eats mostly what we eat, just mushed up a bit, which saves making a separate dish or buying those horrible jars of food. She gets through less nappies too and clothes aren't getting ruined as regularly! We are going to an NCT 'nearly new sale' in a week which I would highly recommend to anyone, great place to buy clothes for the baby.
I'm sure it'll get better!
Quick update, 5 months on?!
Things haven't really 'improved' noticeably to be honest.
I have encountered some incredible generosity in the last few months however and I'm just glad that Christmas is paid for.
As it stands I have more change in my pocket (£2.36) than I have available in any form of debit from my bank. Payday is Tuesday, but the majority of it is going on overdue bills.
I have managed to keep spending on the credit card to a reasonable minimum, I got engaged to my girlfriend in October and was able to stretch to a half-decent ring for her without spending stupid amounts.
I keep asking myself whether having a child at my age (25) was the right decision. I don't resent her one bit; she makes work worth the effort and stress and brings an overwhelming amount of happiness. It's just the constant influx of bills we can't seem to get in charge of. Council Tax overdue by a month, electricity bill overdue by 2 months, water bill also overdue. Rent, fortunately hasn't gone up and I've reduced our monthly outgoings this year as the insurance on the car has gone from £55 a month to £35.
Despite all of this we aren't unhappy and miserable like I'm probably coming accross as!
My girlfriend has increased her hours as much as she can, which averages about 9 hours a week. She's taken on as much overtime over Christmas as possible whilst I'm at home to look after the little person, which will give us a nice little boost at the end of January.
I don't want to come accross as having a whinge, because I'm still very aware that I'm not the only one stuck in the same position. Wages frozen for the next 6 months at least, so no improvements on that front for a while.
I've applied for Housing Benefit, after using the online calculator we were showing up as being entitled to around £56/month which would do a grocery shop and some diesel in the tank. We submitted our application in mid-November and it can be back-dated by 6 months, but the council still haven't responded and have seemingly lost our application. Excellent.
As before, any comments / suggestions of how we can cut back even more are welcome! Hopefully there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
Things haven't really 'improved' noticeably to be honest.
I have encountered some incredible generosity in the last few months however and I'm just glad that Christmas is paid for.
As it stands I have more change in my pocket (£2.36) than I have available in any form of debit from my bank. Payday is Tuesday, but the majority of it is going on overdue bills.
I have managed to keep spending on the credit card to a reasonable minimum, I got engaged to my girlfriend in October and was able to stretch to a half-decent ring for her without spending stupid amounts.
I keep asking myself whether having a child at my age (25) was the right decision. I don't resent her one bit; she makes work worth the effort and stress and brings an overwhelming amount of happiness. It's just the constant influx of bills we can't seem to get in charge of. Council Tax overdue by a month, electricity bill overdue by 2 months, water bill also overdue. Rent, fortunately hasn't gone up and I've reduced our monthly outgoings this year as the insurance on the car has gone from £55 a month to £35.
Despite all of this we aren't unhappy and miserable like I'm probably coming accross as!
My girlfriend has increased her hours as much as she can, which averages about 9 hours a week. She's taken on as much overtime over Christmas as possible whilst I'm at home to look after the little person, which will give us a nice little boost at the end of January.
I don't want to come accross as having a whinge, because I'm still very aware that I'm not the only one stuck in the same position. Wages frozen for the next 6 months at least, so no improvements on that front for a while.
I've applied for Housing Benefit, after using the online calculator we were showing up as being entitled to around £56/month which would do a grocery shop and some diesel in the tank. We submitted our application in mid-November and it can be back-dated by 6 months, but the council still haven't responded and have seemingly lost our application. Excellent.
As before, any comments / suggestions of how we can cut back even more are welcome! Hopefully there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
The trouble is that even with £25k being a healthy enough wage you have no money for savings, rainy days and nice things. I work my b*****ks off just to cover the rent, tax and utility bills. We've looked into moving - the place we are in remains one of the cheapest in the area. I've pointed out that moving away would isolate my girlfriend and increase the cost of a commute, moving closer to work means higher rent prices.
You cannot buy a house on £25kpa in this area. Not even a flat. Reason for that being that you have a maximum £175 'spare' money every month, depending on what bills are due. You're talking about a minimum £6k deposit on anything which means 3+ years of saving up, without having to do any maintenance or repairs on your car in that whole time either. It's tough.
The ultimate goal isn't to buy a house, it would be nice to have that capital but it's a risk too; if I lose my job now we have 4 weeks to get out, with nothing but a deposit to lose. Default on a mortgage and things would be much worse.
If we were in a council house in the same area we'd be paying around 40% less rent - how does that make sense?!
How would I go about getting freelance cad work? Local ads? Trying not to be dim but trying to work out where to advertise what I can do.
My aim now is to work even harder to further the company in the next 3 months. If my efforts are not recognised after this I'll look for something else.
You cannot buy a house on £25kpa in this area. Not even a flat. Reason for that being that you have a maximum £175 'spare' money every month, depending on what bills are due. You're talking about a minimum £6k deposit on anything which means 3+ years of saving up, without having to do any maintenance or repairs on your car in that whole time either. It's tough.
The ultimate goal isn't to buy a house, it would be nice to have that capital but it's a risk too; if I lose my job now we have 4 weeks to get out, with nothing but a deposit to lose. Default on a mortgage and things would be much worse.
If we were in a council house in the same area we'd be paying around 40% less rent - how does that make sense?!
How would I go about getting freelance cad work? Local ads? Trying not to be dim but trying to work out where to advertise what I can do.
My aim now is to work even harder to further the company in the next 3 months. If my efforts are not recognised after this I'll look for something else.
Right, time for another update.
After work has decided to freeze wages and a very senior worker leaving just prior to Christmas leaving us with a hefty workload I've decided to start looking for something new to turn my hand to.
As the financial side of things go, we've taken a pretty big step there too. It wasn't easy, there was shouting, crying, then a lot of apologies from both sides, but we've decided to move back in with the parents.
It's not ideal and it's certainly not permanent. After reading an article on here that was linked in The Lounge a while back called "Why procrastinators procrastinate" I decided to make a 'plan' for want of a better word.
The interest / repayments we are making against mistakes / greed in the past are what are prohibiting our quality of life I feel. The outgoings are stripping us of that spare cash we need for an occasional takeaway or to spoil our daughter with a new item of clothing.
There's 2 spare rooms; one for us and one for our daughter. We've started selling some larger items of furniture, but the reality is we've still got to find somewhere for storing some of the items we need to keep - the sofa, the wardrobes and a bookshelf. Paying for storage seems backwards, a last resort if you will, so I'm asking relatives and friends if they can store items for us.
The 'master plan' is to be in and out in 6 months. SWMBO thinks we will end up there for longer as we'll get used to living their and taking it easy, so I've got to remain determined to set a checkout date.
I'll be paying my folks housekeeping towards bills and helping out around the house, which is more valuable to them. We can clear our debts and overdraft and have a deposit for a new place to rent in 4 months if we're really strict, which is why I've said 6 months worst-case. If I'm really strict and nowhere suitable comes up in 6 months then any 'spare money' will be split between savings for a wedding and a slightly newer family car (only 2-2.5k max) so there is some motivation there for me too.
How will I stop from falling into a similar trap? Simple. I plan to keep the monthly outgoings below what we're bringing in, live well within our means. Cut-up the credit cards, or be incredibly disciplined with perhaps just 1. Get rid of the overdraft, so when the account says zero then zero is what's left.
What do you all think? I'm gutted that it's come to this but I think if we carry on we'll be paying back little debts for years to come in the same situation, scratching for money.
After work has decided to freeze wages and a very senior worker leaving just prior to Christmas leaving us with a hefty workload I've decided to start looking for something new to turn my hand to.
As the financial side of things go, we've taken a pretty big step there too. It wasn't easy, there was shouting, crying, then a lot of apologies from both sides, but we've decided to move back in with the parents.
It's not ideal and it's certainly not permanent. After reading an article on here that was linked in The Lounge a while back called "Why procrastinators procrastinate" I decided to make a 'plan' for want of a better word.
The interest / repayments we are making against mistakes / greed in the past are what are prohibiting our quality of life I feel. The outgoings are stripping us of that spare cash we need for an occasional takeaway or to spoil our daughter with a new item of clothing.
There's 2 spare rooms; one for us and one for our daughter. We've started selling some larger items of furniture, but the reality is we've still got to find somewhere for storing some of the items we need to keep - the sofa, the wardrobes and a bookshelf. Paying for storage seems backwards, a last resort if you will, so I'm asking relatives and friends if they can store items for us.
The 'master plan' is to be in and out in 6 months. SWMBO thinks we will end up there for longer as we'll get used to living their and taking it easy, so I've got to remain determined to set a checkout date.
I'll be paying my folks housekeeping towards bills and helping out around the house, which is more valuable to them. We can clear our debts and overdraft and have a deposit for a new place to rent in 4 months if we're really strict, which is why I've said 6 months worst-case. If I'm really strict and nowhere suitable comes up in 6 months then any 'spare money' will be split between savings for a wedding and a slightly newer family car (only 2-2.5k max) so there is some motivation there for me too.
How will I stop from falling into a similar trap? Simple. I plan to keep the monthly outgoings below what we're bringing in, live well within our means. Cut-up the credit cards, or be incredibly disciplined with perhaps just 1. Get rid of the overdraft, so when the account says zero then zero is what's left.
What do you all think? I'm gutted that it's come to this but I think if we carry on we'll be paying back little debts for years to come in the same situation, scratching for money.
Yea it took a while to sink in and finally 'bite the bullet' as it were, but it's got to be worth it in the long run.
I originally proposed that we stay for a year or so Koze, but the Mrs doesn't want to stay that long, so we will be going back to private renting which I'm not happy about but what can you do? House prices are £160k plus in our town and surrounding areas so a deposit of 5% even stands me at £8k which would take a further 8 months if I was very strict with my outgoings. Seems like a big ask just to get a foot on the property ladder
I originally proposed that we stay for a year or so Koze, but the Mrs doesn't want to stay that long, so we will be going back to private renting which I'm not happy about but what can you do? House prices are £160k plus in our town and surrounding areas so a deposit of 5% even stands me at £8k which would take a further 8 months if I was very strict with my outgoings. Seems like a big ask just to get a foot on the property ladder
mx stu said:
I find this a really interesting point as it's something I've been thinking about recently. At what point did it become the norm that people have an overdraft and when your bank says you've got £0 you're alright because you've still got the banks money to keep you going? It's something me and my wife were guilty of until we took the decision to basically try and operate on 'cash only basis', withdrawing what we need for the week and once that's gone, it's gone. Pretty much everyone I know of a similar age to us operates with either an overdraft or credit card or even both so they never have the utter the words 'I/We can't afford it'.
I know that people of a different generation may read the above and be surprised but, for me personally, it's always been the accepted norm. Well since I was 21 or so (the last 10 years).
You posted this whilst I was typing my previous response, sorry (although a phonecall meant it took 45 minutes to post a response!)I know that people of a different generation may read the above and be surprised but, for me personally, it's always been the accepted norm. Well since I was 21 or so (the last 10 years).
I got my first bit of overdraft at about 17 years old from Natwest. I didn't know what it was; nobody explained it thoroughly it just meant I could buy Call of Duty or an extra couple of drving lessons. Once it was a £50 overdraft it soon became a £150 overdraft, until it got to £350 and the bank said I couldn't have any more. Naive, yes, but I just thought it was the bank being friendly and letting me spend their cash. I was pretty stupid! Now it's there it's impossible to get rid of I find.
Good points - can't quote as I'm on my mobile and it's a right faff.
The Mrs is less than pleased about the whole situation. She has gone as car as to say that she will leave me if lodging with my parents goes on for more than 5 months, and she's totally serious (I'm putting this down to being a bit mental?)
I think the difficulty comes in that her earnings are mostly absorbed into clothes, food and other 'nice' things - it's me who pays for the boring stuff like council tax, rent and utility bills. Oh, and I still buy 3 of the 4 monthly food shops too, but don't mention that to her cos she'll start breathing fire or something...!
It's belittling, demoralising and depressing moving back in with mummy and daddy, but the alternative is surely worse - in my opinion only. The way I see it; it only needs to be an unhappy experience if you let it. We are fortunate that my parents have a nicely-sized house, so we will have an adequate room with our own bathroom and our daughter will even have her own room. I've even tried arguing the point that until 2 years old, children have very little recollection of their surroundings, so she probably won't even remember IF WE ACT NOW.
I digress. An underlying issue is that we both want child nr 2 so the age gap isn't too great. My heart, her heart and head are all for it; but my head says we need to pause life for a brief moment because of the bigger picture. Even typing this up now I feel the same sentences going on and repeating themselves in the same increasingly louder volumes in my head.
As for borrowing more money to use as equity (believe I'm using that word correctly) for a mortgage I would prefer not to. It's borrowing money which has put me in this situation!
If any females (crazy hormonal ones even better) could chime in if they see any sense in my ideology then please help me argue my case with Mrs C.A.R.!
Oh and I need to find £3 somewhere so I can afford the BT line rental bill which goes out in 5 days...to the back of the sofa (which the BBC have just finished telling me is a fire hazard)!
The Mrs is less than pleased about the whole situation. She has gone as car as to say that she will leave me if lodging with my parents goes on for more than 5 months, and she's totally serious (I'm putting this down to being a bit mental?)
I think the difficulty comes in that her earnings are mostly absorbed into clothes, food and other 'nice' things - it's me who pays for the boring stuff like council tax, rent and utility bills. Oh, and I still buy 3 of the 4 monthly food shops too, but don't mention that to her cos she'll start breathing fire or something...!
It's belittling, demoralising and depressing moving back in with mummy and daddy, but the alternative is surely worse - in my opinion only. The way I see it; it only needs to be an unhappy experience if you let it. We are fortunate that my parents have a nicely-sized house, so we will have an adequate room with our own bathroom and our daughter will even have her own room. I've even tried arguing the point that until 2 years old, children have very little recollection of their surroundings, so she probably won't even remember IF WE ACT NOW.
I digress. An underlying issue is that we both want child nr 2 so the age gap isn't too great. My heart, her heart and head are all for it; but my head says we need to pause life for a brief moment because of the bigger picture. Even typing this up now I feel the same sentences going on and repeating themselves in the same increasingly louder volumes in my head.
As for borrowing more money to use as equity (believe I'm using that word correctly) for a mortgage I would prefer not to. It's borrowing money which has put me in this situation!
If any females (crazy hormonal ones even better) could chime in if they see any sense in my ideology then please help me argue my case with Mrs C.A.R.!
Oh and I need to find £3 somewhere so I can afford the BT line rental bill which goes out in 5 days...to the back of the sofa (which the BBC have just finished telling me is a fire hazard)!
Thanks for the replies.
Yes, sadly this is the 3rd night this week since proposing the lodging plan.
Perhaps I was a little harsh, her spending whilst mostly frivolous does pay for the groceries once a month and having a 15 month-old who needs clothes seemingly constantly comes out of her take-home, not mine.
I calculate that I can save / pay off around £1,000 a month staying with my parents even whilst making a contribution. Total debts sum £4,100, hence the 5 month ultimatum she has given me. I'm glad you also think she's a bit mad though.
What can I do to help her appreciate how big of a deal this is? I only have to give one months' notice to my landlord and I'm considering doing it at the end of this month. Going back to the article I read last week; procrastinating is, whatever way you look at it, not getting anything done.
I've sold around half of my Radio Controlled car collection since moving out from home, I no longer have a nice car etc, sacrifices I don't think she appreciates as she didn't have these or similar things of equal personal value when we moved in together.
Gonna sleep on it, suffice to say we are (yet again) not on talking terms. Petty.
Yes, sadly this is the 3rd night this week since proposing the lodging plan.
Perhaps I was a little harsh, her spending whilst mostly frivolous does pay for the groceries once a month and having a 15 month-old who needs clothes seemingly constantly comes out of her take-home, not mine.
I calculate that I can save / pay off around £1,000 a month staying with my parents even whilst making a contribution. Total debts sum £4,100, hence the 5 month ultimatum she has given me. I'm glad you also think she's a bit mad though.
What can I do to help her appreciate how big of a deal this is? I only have to give one months' notice to my landlord and I'm considering doing it at the end of this month. Going back to the article I read last week; procrastinating is, whatever way you look at it, not getting anything done.
I've sold around half of my Radio Controlled car collection since moving out from home, I no longer have a nice car etc, sacrifices I don't think she appreciates as she didn't have these or similar things of equal personal value when we moved in together.
Gonna sleep on it, suffice to say we are (yet again) not on talking terms. Petty.
Don't get me wrong - the majority of our daughters' clothes are either gifts from relatives or from these Nearly-New sales which are held locally. The rest of her income is pi**ed away though, aside from the one grocery shop.
I appreciate that my money management is poor. In fact, that's an understatement, it's terrible. It's always been the same though, since in the past I have always relied on the credit card which inevitably never gets paid off. The difference now is that I'm reaching the credit limit on what the banks will offer me and I'm finally accepting that we are living beyond our means - hence starting this thread.
If we carry on at home we can only really afford the minimum repayments on our debts, which will be interest-heavy. It will be a rutt we'll never get out of.
She's mad for thinking that this is a world we can bring another child into. Whilst the idea of a sibling for my daughter whilst she is still little sounds like a beautiful idea the reality is very different and this is the ongoing argument with her in doors.
To go back to an earlier comment which I couldn't quote regarding freelance CAD work I have some problems here too. The only computer powerful enough to use CAD software is my PC at work - which I obviously can't use! I can't afford a new computer or even a second-hand one let alone the space to store it. My laptop just gives up when you try to fire up AutoCAD too! So there's something there worth looking into, I just have to sort the hardware out first.
I appreciate that my money management is poor. In fact, that's an understatement, it's terrible. It's always been the same though, since in the past I have always relied on the credit card which inevitably never gets paid off. The difference now is that I'm reaching the credit limit on what the banks will offer me and I'm finally accepting that we are living beyond our means - hence starting this thread.
If we carry on at home we can only really afford the minimum repayments on our debts, which will be interest-heavy. It will be a rutt we'll never get out of.
She's mad for thinking that this is a world we can bring another child into. Whilst the idea of a sibling for my daughter whilst she is still little sounds like a beautiful idea the reality is very different and this is the ongoing argument with her in doors.
To go back to an earlier comment which I couldn't quote regarding freelance CAD work I have some problems here too. The only computer powerful enough to use CAD software is my PC at work - which I obviously can't use! I can't afford a new computer or even a second-hand one let alone the space to store it. My laptop just gives up when you try to fire up AutoCAD too! So there's something there worth looking into, I just have to sort the hardware out first.
ClaphamGT3, Lewisf182 - thanks.
I won't quote as it just takes up scrolling space...
With regards to the money for the line rental it's just included within the broadband which is just under £30 all-in per month. I deliberately haven't bought a landline phone as I know we'll end up with yet another bill.
Since starting the thread I've cut my own mobile phone bill in half and we don't have a TV package at home at all - just Freeview.
I have allowed for Mrs C.A.R. to have a degree more spending as you say - she is really unhappy about the whole situation (I think everyone can read that much into it!) add to the fact that she will be doing an extra job come April - something I've yet to mention. This will bring in an additional £50 (not sure what she'll be taxed yet) every week, £200 a month before tax. The best part is; it's closer to my folks house than it is where we currently reside! It's win-win! Unless you're my Mrs...
I will search out new CAD work, I have some old contacts I can try. I think a large part of it also is that I lack the confidence. 7 years ago I was doing CAD day-in-day-out, now it's very ocasional and I only ever use the same basic tools. I'm worried I'll be asked to do something and not remember how.
Regards the free childcare, whilst a nice idea and both parents would be more than willing, my mum is permanently disabled and occasionally bed-bound. Regardless, I don't think my Mrs wants to be in work for long no matter what, so I need to calculate our future living costs on my income alone.
Lewis, if I could put my Mrs off having child nr2 for another year I would; but she's adamant about it even if it means screwing up our future chances of having any spare money. Apparently having a family means that money comes second, as long as the kids are happy?
It's been around a week since I first suggested this idea and the arguments we've had have been unbearable. I need to - like you say - drill it in that this is an opportunity, not some massive problem. We need to treat staying at mum and dads like a springboard, not a prison.
I do think it's the mentality of the younger generation (of which I'm part of) that we don't want to work hard for things and we certainly don't want to wait. Whilst I had an easy childhood we weren't spoilt, but we didn't go without either. I've always been taught that you need to work hard for a living and not rely on hand-outs. My other half is unfortunately from a broken home, so her upbringing was different. It's also why I don't like to probe this part of the argument too much, since it's not fair on her to bring it up. But if we are to lay strong foundations for our future generation in our daughter then we need to act responsibly now - the good times will come.
My little sister doesn't help the situation, being a prime candidate for the recent C4 program on Benefits Street. She has lived on hand-outs since leaving school, hasn't kept a single job for more than 3 months and always seems to have money for smokes (-yuk) and meals out - all subsidised by us taxpayers. She has recently had a second child and is building a nice family, living in North London where a lot of the rent is paid for her. Meanwhile Mrs C.A.R. is watching on all green-eyed and broody. It's hard pointing out that whilst my younger sister has NOTHING she lives in absolute luxury - maybe we are the stupid ones for having morals?
Meh - the more I think about her the more it winds me up, it's best not to compare your own personal situation to someone elses as it just ends in bitterness and bad feelings.
I'll persevere through tonights discussion / argument and see how I get on. If I haven't posted by midday someone should send round for me in case she's hit me over the head with a blunt object and is trying to hide my body under the decking...
I won't quote as it just takes up scrolling space...
With regards to the money for the line rental it's just included within the broadband which is just under £30 all-in per month. I deliberately haven't bought a landline phone as I know we'll end up with yet another bill.
Since starting the thread I've cut my own mobile phone bill in half and we don't have a TV package at home at all - just Freeview.
I have allowed for Mrs C.A.R. to have a degree more spending as you say - she is really unhappy about the whole situation (I think everyone can read that much into it!) add to the fact that she will be doing an extra job come April - something I've yet to mention. This will bring in an additional £50 (not sure what she'll be taxed yet) every week, £200 a month before tax. The best part is; it's closer to my folks house than it is where we currently reside! It's win-win! Unless you're my Mrs...
I will search out new CAD work, I have some old contacts I can try. I think a large part of it also is that I lack the confidence. 7 years ago I was doing CAD day-in-day-out, now it's very ocasional and I only ever use the same basic tools. I'm worried I'll be asked to do something and not remember how.
Regards the free childcare, whilst a nice idea and both parents would be more than willing, my mum is permanently disabled and occasionally bed-bound. Regardless, I don't think my Mrs wants to be in work for long no matter what, so I need to calculate our future living costs on my income alone.
Lewis, if I could put my Mrs off having child nr2 for another year I would; but she's adamant about it even if it means screwing up our future chances of having any spare money. Apparently having a family means that money comes second, as long as the kids are happy?
It's been around a week since I first suggested this idea and the arguments we've had have been unbearable. I need to - like you say - drill it in that this is an opportunity, not some massive problem. We need to treat staying at mum and dads like a springboard, not a prison.
I do think it's the mentality of the younger generation (of which I'm part of) that we don't want to work hard for things and we certainly don't want to wait. Whilst I had an easy childhood we weren't spoilt, but we didn't go without either. I've always been taught that you need to work hard for a living and not rely on hand-outs. My other half is unfortunately from a broken home, so her upbringing was different. It's also why I don't like to probe this part of the argument too much, since it's not fair on her to bring it up. But if we are to lay strong foundations for our future generation in our daughter then we need to act responsibly now - the good times will come.
My little sister doesn't help the situation, being a prime candidate for the recent C4 program on Benefits Street. She has lived on hand-outs since leaving school, hasn't kept a single job for more than 3 months and always seems to have money for smokes (-yuk) and meals out - all subsidised by us taxpayers. She has recently had a second child and is building a nice family, living in North London where a lot of the rent is paid for her. Meanwhile Mrs C.A.R. is watching on all green-eyed and broody. It's hard pointing out that whilst my younger sister has NOTHING she lives in absolute luxury - maybe we are the stupid ones for having morals?
Meh - the more I think about her the more it winds me up, it's best not to compare your own personal situation to someone elses as it just ends in bitterness and bad feelings.
I'll persevere through tonights discussion / argument and see how I get on. If I haven't posted by midday someone should send round for me in case she's hit me over the head with a blunt object and is trying to hide my body under the decking...
It's nice to see some people sticking up for me while I was away! I don't have much to add that won't just be regurgitating what has already been said.
Try not to dwell on the £3 thing; it was an exaggeration I made which seems to have stuck! I have the money, it just wasn't in the right account at the time but I fortunately realised before the payment was taken. I have one account for house bills and another for the day to day stuff, another tip I think I picked up on PH a while back.
We went into parenthood with the right idea - we knew it would be a big financial commitment and that it would be a struggle without the support we've had from friends and family - not the state (aside from child benefit, which I think everyone is entitled to until a point) were we naive? Yes, probably, but I think that even with all the hindsight in the world it would still be difficult trying to justify a child financially. Right now our daughter is trying to climb up my back while I type this, she is the greatest thing to have ever happened to me and I find it almost offensive for her to be referred to as a mistake.
I came on here trying to be sincere, to see how others managed and to share and gather opinions on my various money-saving schemes, not to be berated for having had a child at 24 years old.
Right with that out of the way...
I've convinced my wife that we need to get back on our feet before we consider a second child. Whilst she only works part-time her income makes a surprising difference to the amount the lenders will give us for a mortgage. My target is to save 1200/ month, clearing my debts in under 4 months. From here I gather we will need at least £8k for a deposit - we just have to be disciplined. It will be interesting to see how it goes; our move-out date is the 7th March (handy it's a Friday) but I've got lots to do before then. I've never hung wallpaper before and the spare room has bare walls! Wish me luck!
Try not to dwell on the £3 thing; it was an exaggeration I made which seems to have stuck! I have the money, it just wasn't in the right account at the time but I fortunately realised before the payment was taken. I have one account for house bills and another for the day to day stuff, another tip I think I picked up on PH a while back.
We went into parenthood with the right idea - we knew it would be a big financial commitment and that it would be a struggle without the support we've had from friends and family - not the state (aside from child benefit, which I think everyone is entitled to until a point) were we naive? Yes, probably, but I think that even with all the hindsight in the world it would still be difficult trying to justify a child financially. Right now our daughter is trying to climb up my back while I type this, she is the greatest thing to have ever happened to me and I find it almost offensive for her to be referred to as a mistake.
I came on here trying to be sincere, to see how others managed and to share and gather opinions on my various money-saving schemes, not to be berated for having had a child at 24 years old.
Right with that out of the way...
I've convinced my wife that we need to get back on our feet before we consider a second child. Whilst she only works part-time her income makes a surprising difference to the amount the lenders will give us for a mortgage. My target is to save 1200/ month, clearing my debts in under 4 months. From here I gather we will need at least £8k for a deposit - we just have to be disciplined. It will be interesting to see how it goes; our move-out date is the 7th March (handy it's a Friday) but I've got lots to do before then. I've never hung wallpaper before and the spare room has bare walls! Wish me luck!
Cheers guys.
Yes I've spoken with Mr E about his very generous offer and I've already been practicing my CAD work in my lunchbreaks at work.
Problem with the spare room is that it's in various states of un-decoration depending on which wall you look at! The external wall with the window in is bare - not even skimmed, so I can't really paint over it can I?
The other wall is bare plaster skim - will take paint nicely. The other wall has been attacked - it was once plasterboard, with wallpaper over the top, however someone has been a bit over-ambitious at removing said wallpaper and now the plasterboard is a bit knackered. I'm not sure how to rescue it to be honest! At the end of the day it's my folks house too, so whatever they say goes.
Yes I've spoken with Mr E about his very generous offer and I've already been practicing my CAD work in my lunchbreaks at work.
Problem with the spare room is that it's in various states of un-decoration depending on which wall you look at! The external wall with the window in is bare - not even skimmed, so I can't really paint over it can I?
The other wall is bare plaster skim - will take paint nicely. The other wall has been attacked - it was once plasterboard, with wallpaper over the top, however someone has been a bit over-ambitious at removing said wallpaper and now the plasterboard is a bit knackered. I'm not sure how to rescue it to be honest! At the end of the day it's my folks house too, so whatever they say goes.
Thanks to all the well-wishers who have posted
I wrote a notice confirming our intention to vacate the property today, so it's now more 'real' somehow. We have started boxing things up and have solved the storage issues we had with larger items (thanks to family and friends). Ironically, we received a letter last week that our rent was going up from £715/month to £730. A small rise but only coincidental that we are leaving!
I've written-off the 1 month deposit we put down in order to live here as I figure I'm going to have to pay the water and electric bill from it, anything left is a bonus which can come straight off the credit cards. This at least gives me a clean sheet when I get paid at the end of February, my folks want £300 housekeeping but this pales in comparison to rent & bills we were paying. I'm still hoping to pay off £1,000 a month or close to it.
The good news is that business is doing well. I've never been more busy working for anyone. Just last week the MD took delivery of an AMG C63, so a raise must be on the cards - right?!! I kid, but it would make this lodging period shorter and sweeter.
D-day is the 7th March...
I wrote a notice confirming our intention to vacate the property today, so it's now more 'real' somehow. We have started boxing things up and have solved the storage issues we had with larger items (thanks to family and friends). Ironically, we received a letter last week that our rent was going up from £715/month to £730. A small rise but only coincidental that we are leaving!
I've written-off the 1 month deposit we put down in order to live here as I figure I'm going to have to pay the water and electric bill from it, anything left is a bonus which can come straight off the credit cards. This at least gives me a clean sheet when I get paid at the end of February, my folks want £300 housekeeping but this pales in comparison to rent & bills we were paying. I'm still hoping to pay off £1,000 a month or close to it.
The good news is that business is doing well. I've never been more busy working for anyone. Just last week the MD took delivery of an AMG C63, so a raise must be on the cards - right?!! I kid, but it would make this lodging period shorter and sweeter.
D-day is the 7th March...
Purity14 said:
All this female breakdown/depression/affecting our relationship nonsense etc.
I just read it as "I'm not having my way, and I want things my way, so make them my way or else..."
Perhaps there is something wrong with me?
I don't think there's anything wrong with you, I think you've just assumed that all women are rational don't get hysterical easily. Whereas that is really not true!I just read it as "I'm not having my way, and I want things my way, so make them my way or else..."
Perhaps there is something wrong with me?
It does concern me that reading Kozy's situation could be like seeing into a crystal ball almost, but I'm just hoping that she doesn't get too fed up too quickly whilst lodging with my folks. It's not difficult, and we get our own space too when they go out and do whatever it is old people do!
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff