Splitting up with girlfriend in a joint owned mortgage...
Discussion
Hi guys,
Been lurking here for a while, signed up a few weeks ago and unfortunately this is my first post...
Me and my girlfriend bought our first property and moved in around January this year. But it all seems to have gone pear shaped between us and now we're separating.
I'm just a bit confused on finances and how to play this out, because over the 10/11 months she's paid pennies in comparison to me.
The mortgage was for £99k with £5k being gifted from my Father (which i know i have to pay back) and £6k being gifted from my cousin who lived in the property before us. (The property was up for £110k and we had to put down 10%, £5k which came from my father and £6k that came from my cousin when she knocked it down to £104k)
Now, our mortgage per month is £460, with bills added on it comes to around £800 per month to live here.
We have a joint account, of which i pay around £1,200 into a month and she works in a pub so pays around £110-£150 into depending on the week she's had.
Some of the cash i take out of that account to pay for a credit card bill i have for shopping and other things we needed when settling in for the first few months.
Looking at the sheet i was given when i moved in with our mortgage payments over the years, we've so far paid off £1,200 of the £99k mortgage.
Everything inside the flat apart from the curtains her Mother bought were bought by me with no input from her side, the sofa, the TV, beds etc.
I'm just wondering how much i would have to pay to have her leave and be done with it, legally.
Would it be half of the £1,200 we've already paid off? Or because we both owe my Father £5k would it be half of that minus the £600 from the mortgage? If so i was thinking of just telling her that she can leave and call it quits.
I know i can afford to live her, albeit a little tight, but alone. Whereas her wage would struggle to cover the mortgage payment and council tax.
Any help is massively appreciated, if i've missed any details let me know.
Cheers.
Been lurking here for a while, signed up a few weeks ago and unfortunately this is my first post...
Me and my girlfriend bought our first property and moved in around January this year. But it all seems to have gone pear shaped between us and now we're separating.
I'm just a bit confused on finances and how to play this out, because over the 10/11 months she's paid pennies in comparison to me.
The mortgage was for £99k with £5k being gifted from my Father (which i know i have to pay back) and £6k being gifted from my cousin who lived in the property before us. (The property was up for £110k and we had to put down 10%, £5k which came from my father and £6k that came from my cousin when she knocked it down to £104k)
Now, our mortgage per month is £460, with bills added on it comes to around £800 per month to live here.
We have a joint account, of which i pay around £1,200 into a month and she works in a pub so pays around £110-£150 into depending on the week she's had.
Some of the cash i take out of that account to pay for a credit card bill i have for shopping and other things we needed when settling in for the first few months.
Looking at the sheet i was given when i moved in with our mortgage payments over the years, we've so far paid off £1,200 of the £99k mortgage.
Everything inside the flat apart from the curtains her Mother bought were bought by me with no input from her side, the sofa, the TV, beds etc.
I'm just wondering how much i would have to pay to have her leave and be done with it, legally.
Would it be half of the £1,200 we've already paid off? Or because we both owe my Father £5k would it be half of that minus the £600 from the mortgage? If so i was thinking of just telling her that she can leave and call it quits.
I know i can afford to live her, albeit a little tight, but alone. Whereas her wage would struggle to cover the mortgage payment and council tax.
Any help is massively appreciated, if i've missed any details let me know.
Cheers.
PurpleMoonlight said:
What's the house value now?
Same, i'd assume. I know assuming is dangerous but it was on the market for just under a year at £110k and we've only been in it a month and haven't added anything to it.She has said that she wants half of the £11k we've put down, but will that happen because both parts (£5k and £6k) were from my family as gifts to me. Not us?
She has also said she wants half of everything, which is really grinding my gears because she hasn't paid for any furniture at all.
If i'm honest, i pay the money for the bills into the joint account and then what she pays into it just pays for the shopping or going out.
IanMorewood said:
Unless when you bought the house jointly you specified proportional ownership I would say you are on a sticky wicket. I also doubt you specified where and how the deposit was paid and that the £5k was a loan that needed to be repaid to your father. What I would suggest is you seek legal assistance and then after that have a grown up conversation with your soon to be exgirlfriend.
Thats where i think it might get a bit confusing. The money from my Father had to be put down as a "Gift" because taking any form of loan for a mortgage deposit isn't allowed.But either way, the gift was to me, paid into my bank account and back out of my bank account, so everything that shows the deposit shows no contribution from her or her family at all.
If i just have to pay her what she's paid in i'd be happy with that, because we have only paid off £1,200 of the mortgage so far anyway!
Thanks for the help, i appreciate it!
Really thankful for all the advice i'm getting.
It is correct that:
"I read it that the OP wanted the house but didn't have any deposit. The house was sold at £110k, but the seller gave the OP £6k cash towards the deposit rather than dropping the selling price. Father put in £5k making £11k/10%"
On the legal paperwork though, it states that my cousin had gifted me, not us the money, same with my Father.
If her taking £6k is the case, then what would happen for instance if this happened:
A couple get together, a few months later they agree to move into a mortgaged property together, the female has no money at all but the male has £30k to put down.
6 months into the mortgage they split up, is she then legally entitled to £15k + whatever they've paid off the mortgage in the 6 months?
It is correct that:
"I read it that the OP wanted the house but didn't have any deposit. The house was sold at £110k, but the seller gave the OP £6k cash towards the deposit rather than dropping the selling price. Father put in £5k making £11k/10%"
On the legal paperwork though, it states that my cousin had gifted me, not us the money, same with my Father.
If her taking £6k is the case, then what would happen for instance if this happened:
A couple get together, a few months later they agree to move into a mortgaged property together, the female has no money at all but the male has £30k to put down.
6 months into the mortgage they split up, is she then legally entitled to £15k + whatever they've paid off the mortgage in the 6 months?
Thanks for such an informative reply. She's very naive, me and my father had to repaint something in the property yesterday so we spoke a lot about it. She is far too young and naive to even have a mortgage which i realise now... and i don't understand the legal charge bit so i know she won't.
Welshbeef said:
OP feel for you.
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
Would this make a difference if she moved out? Since we moved in i'm on around £4k a year more... But will my salary be re-assessed once i already have the mortgage??
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Jointly. It's a joint mortgage. I guess when buying your first property with someone you love, i didn't tend to think of when it goes tits up..
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
This shouldn't happen. If she pays nothing i can still afford to pay the full mortgage amount.. If i'm being honest, all bills come out the start of the month and i get paid the end of each month. So my contribution to the joint account pays for ALL bills, then the money she puts in covers food. She usually pays her £110-£160 in each Friday when she gets paid
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
[b] I didn't do anything wrong, i know every argument has two sides and i'm not going into detail, but i've done nothing wrong..
The property would have £0 gain in value i'd massively assume. At the time my cousin had trouble to sell it and it was on the market for a long time. My best guess is that would happen again if we had to sell it, which puts me in a good position i suppose:
Option 1:
She can either walk away with £0 and call it a day.
If not, then...
Option 2:
She can walk away with her £600 she's paid
Or if she wants the full 50% of everything and be a complete imoral c-spanner...
Option 3:
We put the house on the market, neither of us live here and cancel any luxury bills we have, Sky etc. Then whatever bills are left we pay exactly 50% towards. Which she will struggle to pay unless her family help her... Then we go legal route and i remember how much solicitors cost when we moved in, so i can only assume that getting someone to do all the legal paperwork wont leave us with much at the end of everything [/b]
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
Would this make a difference if she moved out? Since we moved in i'm on around £4k a year more... But will my salary be re-assessed once i already have the mortgage??
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Jointly. It's a joint mortgage. I guess when buying your first property with someone you love, i didn't tend to think of when it goes tits up..
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
This shouldn't happen. If she pays nothing i can still afford to pay the full mortgage amount.. If i'm being honest, all bills come out the start of the month and i get paid the end of each month. So my contribution to the joint account pays for ALL bills, then the money she puts in covers food. She usually pays her £110-£160 in each Friday when she gets paid
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
[b] I didn't do anything wrong, i know every argument has two sides and i'm not going into detail, but i've done nothing wrong..
The property would have £0 gain in value i'd massively assume. At the time my cousin had trouble to sell it and it was on the market for a long time. My best guess is that would happen again if we had to sell it, which puts me in a good position i suppose:
Option 1:
She can either walk away with £0 and call it a day.
If not, then...
Option 2:
She can walk away with her £600 she's paid
Or if she wants the full 50% of everything and be a complete imoral c-spanner...
Option 3:
We put the house on the market, neither of us live here and cancel any luxury bills we have, Sky etc. Then whatever bills are left we pay exactly 50% towards. Which she will struggle to pay unless her family help her... Then we go legal route and i remember how much solicitors cost when we moved in, so i can only assume that getting someone to do all the legal paperwork wont leave us with much at the end of everything [/b]
Just to clarify.
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
She is coming round today to talk things through, i'm not holding much hope but if it does finish completely at least it should be on good terms.
Morally she isn't entitled to barely anything, but she will take all she can get if it comes to it, a lesson learned indeed.
Really really appreciate all the help from everyone.
Morally she isn't entitled to barely anything, but she will take all she can get if it comes to it, a lesson learned indeed.
Really really appreciate all the help from everyone.
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